Talk:Hartz concept

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I deleted the following: "Unofficially it was admitted that, also counting underemployed people and people employed in state work creation schemes, the number is closer to 6.5 million. That number alone was expected to stifle domestic demand further, and to lead to another marked drop in consumer spending after 3 already dismal years in the retail industry. " I would like to see a source for the claim. However, for an "unofficial" (?) admission, I don't belive anybody can cite a valid source.--80.145.117.179 11:09, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

==[edit]

Hartz-concept unconstitutional.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,676708,00.html

FRG goverment got time till 01. january 2011 to change the laws accordingly to the court decision as can seen here:

http://www.bundesverfassungsgericht.de/entscheidungen/ls20100209_1bvl000109.html

the bundesverfassungsgericht has also given a catalogue to the government regarding the calculation of the hight of hartz iv

calculation can be seen here:

http://www.hartz4-plattform.de/images/RB-Umsetzung-BV_it-EVS-2003.pdf

the interesting part is on page 3 the calculation from 2003 - 2009 according to inflation.

the situation is until now not clear, it can happen, that the European Court of Justice is going to sentenced the FRG to recompense the withheld money (including interest) which would have a serious effect on the states budget.

on the other hand... the government is guilty of frauding the level of the minimal welfare-insurance.

to have an idea of the (small) numbers

would have payed to single adult, westgermany (childrens would get percentual less + if ppl lived together they got also less): 2003: 551 € 2004: 575 € 2005: 577 € 2006: 583 € 2007: 607 € 2008: 627 € 2009: 631 €

has been payed: since 1 .july 2009 359 Euro before that 345 Euros (there was a discrimination between west-germany and east germany)

2003 -> 206 * 12 = 2472 € missing w/o interest 2004 -> 230 * 12 = 2760 € missing w/o interest 2005 -> 232 * 12 = 2784 € 2006 -> 238 * 12 = 2856 € 2007 -> 262 * 12 = 3144 € 2008 -> 282 * 12 = 3384 € 2009 -> 6 * 286 = 1716 € + 6 * 272 = 1632 € = 3348 € sum w/o interest: 17400 € for a hypothetical person, who was unemployed from 2003 - 2009.

and last but not least payed "specialists" like that http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/0,1518,576376,00.html

to think about the german stupidity.

~~ O_o ~~

Common Language[edit]

It is probably interesting that "Hartz IV" in common (written) language is also "HIV" or "H-IV". You can see this in nearly every comments area in newspapers in articles about Hartz-Laws. I also already heard it in spoken language (which can be confusing: people talking about work and all of a sudden they say "I got HIV".

But it gives a proper notion about how these laws are experienced: disease without cure. --88.69.192.149 (talk) 01:32, 8 August 2011 (UTC)