Talk:Harvard–Yale Regatta

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"Annual" since when in what sense?

Not annually from 1852 but "First contested in 1852, annually since 1859" --at best (except for wars or whatever we say). That is clear from the linked history by Harvard SID John Veneziano, "America's Oldest Intercollegiate Athletic Event."

Thanks, now I see that Harvard SID misspelled Winnipesaukee in two ways and I corrected only on the 1850s year or decade pages. Oops.

Have they played "The Game" [American football] annually since 1875 except for wars, as the previous version suggests (1852+23=1875)? The present text may suggest that "The Game" is second-oldest among American intercollegiate athletic rivalries, a stretch. But it may be ok here, no more than a very soft gibe at the American footballists. --P64 02:20, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Seven years later we say, "First contested in 1852, annually since 1859 except during major wars fought by the United States."
We do not list a result for 1871.
And we list only three blank lines between 1930 and 1954.
What's up? --P64 (talk) 20:43, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Also no result for 1896, which refers to "a breakdown in relations between the two schools".[1]
Harvard Magazine counted 137 renditions in 151 summers thru 2002 which implies 147 thru 2012 and fourteen years without a race.
Evident no-race years: 1853 54 56 57 58; 61 62 63 71 96; 1917 43 44 45
--P64 (talk) 00:35, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Longer than the Boat Race?[edit]

Surely "longer" should be in the context of the distance of the race rather than the finishing time? On this basis, The Boat Race is the longer race by 374 yards. Finishing times vary by huge amounts depending on stream, tides etc. --ukexpat 17:11, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Merge in James P Snider Cup[edit]

It is not clear that any of the trophies awarded for the Yale-Harvard Regatta are notable enough alone to merit articles. They would likely be better served by subsections of the main regatta article. CharlusIngus (talk) 00:20, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

1903 Race Times[edit]

Why does Yale have a slightly longer race time than Harvard, but Yale shows as winning? Typo? Transposed times? (talk) 09:41, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Fixed using The World Almanac and Book of Facts. New York: Newspaper Enterprise Association [etc.], 1800. Print. p.267 from Google Books. (talk) 18:30, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
Two years later. User: did then revise ten of the listed times including one for 1903, with edit summary "Updated 1876 to 1903 (not including 1896-1898)"[2]. That did not "fix" the 1903 discrepancy, only changed its magnitude. Today I added an explanatory footnote {{efn}} on the discrepancy, Harvard–Yale Regatta#Notes. --P64 (talk) 23:43, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
This year's print program lists the times as 20:29.6 (H), 20:19.8 (Y) for the 1903 race. Polygeminus grex (talk) 20:41, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Results data[edit]

Today I added a Harvard University Boat Club source via Internet Archive (ref name=HUBCdata). I reconciled our listed Times for 1852 to 1906 with that source, hiding the previous listings in WP:COMMENTs. Thus I made ten changes in the varsity race Time fields, all from 1876 to 1903. Evidently those changes undo ten changes made by another editor two years ago (2011-04-05 revision). See also the preceding section.

So we know two sources that have been used for the main table (varsity race results) 1852 to 1903, and one source 1904–1906. --now named [ref name=HUBCdata]; [ref name=almanac]

I wrote up one other online source previously identified here (Note #8) as the formal [ref name=row2k. Its scope is 1997 to date. I did not check that it does support our listings.

For year 2010 only we have another formal reference, [ref name=Yale2010].

None of those four sources, presently Refs #7 to #10, covers any results between 1906 and 1997. --unless User:99... misdescribed [ref name=almanac] which I have not seen; see preceding section

--P64 (talk) 00:04, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

I expanded the varsity table --especially between 1930 and 1954-- using another Harvard source, [ref name=150yrs]. And inserted some comments with the same source. --P64 (talk) 18:11, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
This is source is identical to [ref name=veneziano] except that it has been augmented: the first paragraph (in italics) and the last 1-1/2 paragraphs (from "Yale returned to the winner’s circle in 1996 ..."). --P64 (talk) 20:01, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
I have done extensive work to flush out this table. Data was drawn from primary drawn from this year's 149th regatta program. Much of it was also in the "150yrs" reference but not carried over yet. Polygeminus grex (talk) 05:46, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Freshman or freshmen?[edit]

"Freshman" appeared many times and "freshmen" twice so I replaced the latter two. I suppose "freshmen" is correct in U.S. collegiate team sports but confirmation is not at hand. --P64 (talk) 18:11, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

By the way today's article in the Boston Globe uses freshman as adjective, freshmen only as plural noun.
Not limited to the point of this section let me note coverage by John Powers in The Boston Globe 2013-06-09/10 (subscription may be required; my experience today is variable).
--P64 (talk) 17:20, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Team background colors[edit]

Two months ago James P. Snider Cup was merged with this article by import of two paragraphs which remain in section Cups and this table which I deleted as redundant.

Date Winner Exhibit
June 10, 2005 Yale Yale
June 9, 2006 Harvard Harvard
June 8, 2007 Harvard
June 13, 2008 Harvard

The "Exhibit" field is my talk page addition showing the team-name displays that are used in this article. The "Winner" background colors may be superior. --P64 (talk) 18:40, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

School colors are perhaps the best option. Those are #A51C30 and #0F4D92. Polygeminus grex (talk) 05:41, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Calendar, seniors[edit]

This year's HY Regatta follows the end of the spring semester, Yale commencement (May 20), Harvard commencement (May 30), and the Intercollegiate Rowing Association championship regatta (June 1-3). The long history of primarily June dates suggests to me that it may always have followed the spring semester.

It seems important to cover at least the basic facts both currently and historically. First and foremost, do the teams include seniors regardless of the Regatta date during the academic year? (Is there one general answer for all U.S. spring term intercollegiate sports?) If so, do they generally retain all seniors from their strongest crews?

H and Y participated in the 2003 IRA Championships for the first time in more than 100 years, we say there.[3] Harvard was the heavyweight eights champion 2003 to 2005.[4] Do H and Y crews now always participate when they are invited?

--P64 (talk) 19:40, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Seniors are eligible. Indeed, [1] this year Harvard participation in the IRA Championship (second place heavyweight eight) conflicted with commencement ceremonies and the seniors formally graduated yesterday after the HY Regatta. "Harvard dominates Yale in rowing" in today's Boston Globe.
[2] Regarding the apparent end of the freshmen series (Yale no longer separates freshmen) someone on the Harvard side opined that the freshmen crew builds class feeling that encourages continued participation by seniors. Ten seniors continued thru the end of this season. --IIRC; yesterday's Boston Globe {subscription required}
--P64 (talk) 17:10, 10 June 2013 (UTC)