Talk:Havana

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Topics from 2005-2006[edit]

About article's consistence[edit]

You've got to be kidding me. A city of 2.2 million people, not only located in, but the capital of one of the few remaining Communist nations on Earth, and it gets reduced to an article that barely fills out a page? -67.165.87.40 (talk • [[Special: Contributions/67.165.87.40|contribs]]) 03:16, 28 November 2005

The town of Alice Springs with not even 30 thousand people is triple the size of this article... Something needs to be done.

You think this is short ? See the version in Spanish ! http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Habana -- Beardo 15:36, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Inconsistencies[edit]

My friend Beardo: Havana will be always a point of controversy. First of all, by its amazing architecture; second, by its size (735 km2 [456.70 square miles]; NYC has 790 km2 [490 square miles]), and by its population is the bigest city of the Caribbean. Jean-Claude Nicolas Forestier, one of the most prominents landscape architects of the 20th century, moved to Havana for five years to collaborate with architects and landscape designers. His influence has left a huge mark on Havana. You can write a huge book on Havana, and in fact, there are a lots of books about Havana's architecture, identity and city's life. Even at the 40's and 50's a prominent spanish enterpreneur used to say that the world has five capitals: London, Paris, New York, Buenos Aires and Havana. Once called "The Paris of the Americas", Havana is waiting to be rediscovered. And yes, the article is too short in English. By the way, I found out an inconsistency. In the seccion "Cityscape" says: "(...) Centro Habana, sometimes described as part of Vedado (...)" This is not so. Old Havana was surrounded by a defensive wall that was destroyed in 1863, and Central Havana was the extension of the city outside of this walls, what we call in spanish "arrabales", or poor quarters, because the poor people and the afro-desdendant free slaves called "libertos" built their houses there during the 19th century. So Centro Habana was an extension of the old city. Vedado was at that times a hunting reserve of Havana's aristocracy, that's why they built their country houses and mansions, called "Quintas" in Vedado, and most of those "quintas" still remain, among the skyscrapers and art decó, art nouveau and modernist buildings of the 20th century when the neighbourhood was completed in 1958, one years before Fidel Castro's triumph against Batista's regime. Actually, the word Vedado means 'Hunting Reserve' in spanish. I hope someone can complete this article as Havana deserves. Cheers! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.218.88.159 (talk) 18:26, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

On Cuban Demography[edit]

White population: They did not come only from Galicia or the Canary Islands, but from all over Spain. Their influence left a huge marks on Cubans and their vocabulary and expressions, even from non castilian speaking regions, like Catalunya and Galicia. This is a theme for another article: the Cuban spanish. From outside of Spain, there came a strong migration of Italians, French, Polish, Scotts, English, Irish, Romanians, Portuguese, Russians and even arabs from Syria, Palestine and Lebanon. It is registered that between 1860 and 1930 around 33.000 arabs (in those days Palestine, Syria and Lebanon were under the Ottoman until 1922, when Syria and Lebanon were under the French, and Transjordan and Palestine under the British rule) arrived in Cuba to stay. The arab neighbourhood was in Old Havana, between Monte, San Nicolás, Corrales, Antón Recio and Figura Streets, an area initially populated by spanish traders. The first arab associations were of charitable and recreational nature, but with time they created also religious fellowships as the Palestine Association, established in 1919. Nowadays, it still exists the Cuban Arab Union, established in 1982.

During the 16th and 17th centuries, Jews immigrated in Cuba from Brazil. During the World War II, arrived in Cuba more Jews runing from the Nazi camps and the Shoah. Around 15.000 Jews are estimated to live in Havana in 1958, and 24.000 in Cuba. In Havana they built five synagogues, (two ashkenazi, two sefardi and one orthodox) and six cementeries.

Asian migration:

The chinese migration started in 1847 when Cantonese contract workers were brought to work in the sugar fields and to build the rail road system. In Havana exists a Chinese Cementery and several associations of different nature; Havana's Chinatown was the bigest of Latin America. Around 1950, 150.000 Chinese are estimated to live in Havana.

The first ethnic Koreans to arrive in Cuba came from Mexico's Yucatán Peninsula in search of a better life. On May 25, 1921, three hundred of them set sail for Cuba.

Afro-descendant population:

Its not possible nowadays to give exact numbers or pecentage, but during the expansion of the European Empires in America, the slave trade soon started, and we can say that the origin of the afro descendants in Cuba come from:

- Carabali, derive their actual culture from the Efik and Efo of the Cross River region in Nigeria, and were primarily of Igbo and Ijaw origin. They came to Cuba primarily in the late 1700’s, and early 1800’s, and it is estimated that 240,000 arrived.

- Lucumi, one of the largest ethnic groups in West Africa, and are found predominantly in Nigeria, but also in Benin and Togo. These people were of Yoruba origin. An estimated 275,000 were brought to Cuba, mostly in the period 1820-60, corresponding with the fall of the Oyo empire. This is, in number, the main African group present in the island. They brought their culture, religion and language (nowadays in the slang of Havana we can easily hear yoruban words).

- Congo, This was the largest ethnic group brought to Cuba, with around 400,000 people. They were from various Bantu cultures centered in the region of Angola. They came throughout the entire period of the slave trade to the island. Creolized forms of kikongo language are also found in ritual of congo religion in Cuba.

- Arará of Fon, Ewe, Popo, and Makhi origin, these people came from Dahomey and surrounding areas. The majority, of the approximately 200,000 that arrived, came in the late 1700’s, after defeats by the Yoruba.

- Later migrations from Jamaica and Haiti.

The mixed or mulattos are a mix of African descendants with any of the Europeans, Chinese, Coreans or Arabs population are found in Cuba, in all varieties. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.218.88.159 (talk) 00:10, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Off-topic[edit]

U.S. billboard controversy[edit]

  • The U.S. Interest Section [1] billboard controversy [2] has been making national news in the U.S. Can anyone familiary with Havana put it in context? -- Beland 01:58, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
See United States Interests Section in Havana --Zleitzen 02:34, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Photo: Dusk on Havana's waterfront[edit]

Overly calmness of the cubans[edit]

When you look at this picture, you may see a feature in the cuban mentality and sentiment. People are always calm and relaxed. Maybe they don't have anything to do. They should try to enjoy themselves to pass the time, which lacks creative, evolving and exciting things.

Perhaps Castro's policy of "everything within the revolution, nothing outside the revolution" really means that in Cuba an individual can exist only by "letting go", by being intellectually and politically passive and by letting the government both choose and rule the society.

Perhaps the cubans have no alternative to their relaxed mentality, and if an individual should become politically active, he/she would immediately be attacked by the authorities. Unless he/she should gain access to the oligarchically selected political inner circle, where he/she would be expected of total allegience to Fidel Castro.

Or perhaps the famous Cuban representative system is a suffiencient forum for the peoples' political self-determination. Does it take anything more; power to decide the policies and laws of the country, while the political elite could safely run the system with a certain amount autonomy granted to the people?

Or perhaps it is understandable that Castro wants to control "poop". USA is antagonising Cuba and causing heavy damage, while the political elite tries to maintain the stability of it's radical regime. I could believe that an individual gets into a confrontation with the authorities only if he/she represents a sort of hard-liner antisocialism, the cuban-floridan 40 years old anti-castro lobby, which constantly tries to hurt the regime rather than expressing contructive critisism. Perhaps Castro or his regime wants to defend itself against this, but to acknowledge other critisisms towards the system.

In the picture people are indeed relaxed, calm and spontanious, but on the other they do not laugh, celebrate or let themselves go.

Do the cuban people see their government and system justified, or is the threat of USA and the oppressing "el bloqueo" the explaining cause for this prominent absence of joy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cuba.Habana.Malecon.01.jpg

Teemu Ruskeepää 10:10, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

"Bye Bye Havana"

By J. Michael Seyfert (2005?) Also the WINNER BEST EDITING: 1st Intl. Documentary Film Fest Atlanta, 2006

"For all Havana's crumbling structures and piles of rubble, its disintegrating roads and toxin-belching jalopies, its plethora of armed policemen and sun-bleached billboards espousing their pat, revolutionary slogans, it attracts over a million pink-skinned, camera-toting, snack-munching mojito-swilling tourists each year.

Cuba stands pummeled by an unworkable socialism and a voracious consumer appetite. What began more than forty six years ago seems spent, "patriotism or death" are simply not enough. Cubans want other choices, other points of view, and they can't wait any longer. But defeating the autocracy also means Cubans will need to relinquish much of their collective conscience in order to chase individual profit and personal freedom."

http: //www.byebyehavana.com/

Teemu Ruskeepää 05:46, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Additions and general quality[edit]

this article needs work[edit]

"Havana has a good people, it is one of the city with more hospitality in the whole world." Grammer aside, was there a study to gauge the hospitality of Havana

Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make whatever changes you feel are needed. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the Edit this page link at the top. You don't even need to log in! (Although there are some reasons why you might like to…) The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome.
uw-sofixit has to be one of the smarmiest most condescending things here, especially unsigned. Surely it would have been an immediate revert had the original poster (also unsigned) deleted the POV sections of this article. The size of the article would be reduced by half! 141.202.248.68 (talk) 19:36, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

A bit gushing[edit]

Some of the recent changes are a bit too much like a travelogue - need to be made more NPOV. -- Beardo 22:25, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, I'm going to mark the article in need of NPOV 76.79.9.129 (talk) 21:50, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Possible copyvio[edit]

"With a great deal of history, culture and tradition, the City of Havana is the destination par excellence in Cuba. It is also one of the most charming places in the world.

According to Nobel Prize winner Ernest Hemingway, in beauty is only surpassed by Venice and Paris. This is a bustling, maritime, open, unbiased and happy that has learned to live its own inner life. From the XVI century the city of Havana has been the capital of Cuba.

Havana treasures several attractions, beautiful beaches, colonial architecture and special entertaining sites. You will find in this city the greatest hotels, the most shining cabarets and the most noted restaurants.

In Havana, cosmopolitan city where Spanish and black traditions mingled, events tourism become stronger every year. Nautical activities and health provide tempting programs to the development of these tourism modalities.

It is located in the north western coast of the Cuban island, having the Strait of Florida to the north and the province of Havana to the south, east, and west.

There paragraphs seem to have come straight from http://www.cubatravel.cu/client/destinations/destinations.php?id=1, which claims copyright. Thus this appears it could be a copyright violation.

-- Beardo 04:11, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


More deletions[edit]

I have taken out the following:

The visitors say that once one gets Havana City it is not like any other. Its streets, its houses, its people, the malecon, are unique and there is always a sea aroma that makes the city impossible to forget.

And the most curious thing!! It is the only City in the world which is capital for 3 times. Capital of Cuba, Capital of 2 provinces; Havana and Havana City.

The first is travel guide, not encyclopedia. The second conflicts with the information on La Habana Province.

-- Beardo 11:47, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Time Zone[edit]

Time zone EST (UTC-5)

- Summer (DST) EDT (UTC-4)

I'm trying to learn time zones and long formats, and wikipedia could be better. Specifically, on this page, shouldn't the time zone be America/Havana? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.37.75.130 (talk) 21:56, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Especially as I am not sure that is true. At the moment, Cuba is on the same time zone as EST, but for a few years recently it stayed on UTC - 4 even in winter. -- Beardo (talk) 00:35, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Trivia[edit]

Sister cities[edit]

It seems mention of Mobile, Alabama as sister city were removed at some point. I added this. I have personal knowledge of this relationship, including the people on the Mobile end who are organizers and have traveled to Havana many times in this capacity. -- MikeGasser (talk) 04:15, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Someone put "Coahuila, Mexico" as a sister city. Coahuila is a state in Mexico, in fact my state of origin, so first of all a state cannot be a city, and anyway, there is no way this city could be compared to any Coahuilan state, they're way too different envitornments so I deleted that. I am also tempted to remove Tijuana, but wont do it as of today.

On the Oran, Algeria page, Havana is listed as a sister, but that isn't so here. Is this a mistake on the other end? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bob154 (talkcontribs) 18:17, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Intro[edit]

City / province[edit]

I don't believe there is any difference between the city of Havana and the province Ciudad de La Habana Province and so the two pages should be merged.

-- Beardo 05:54, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Sounds ok to me. Since you apparently live in Havana I guess you should know!
Unless we have any information that is valid for the province, but not the city, I don't see why we should keep them apart.
Erland Lewin 10:03, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I am no expect on Cuban local government, but I am pretty sure that Havana is similar to London, England - the city and the province "City of Havana" are the same things.

I think we just need to copy the material from the other page, and then put in a redirect. Though I am not sure why the names of municipios are shown twice. That can come out. I have made a start.

-- Beardo 15:18, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I suspect that this may be a historic thing - that the modern province "City of Havana" was carved out of the larger Havana province - I guess in 1976. But most sources say that Havana is a city of 2+ million people - that is the whole Ciudad de la Habana. Beardo 16:32, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Habana City vs. Habana City Province[edit]

The source of that confusion is that Habana City Province includes Habana and other cities like Marianao, Santiago de las Vegas, San Miguel del Padron, Regla, Guanabacoa and so on, with their own city halls, institutions, history, etc. Now, it is true that the history, the economy and the social lives of those cities have a strong bond with Habana. For example, Santiago de las Vegas grew because of the importance of the tobacco plantations, Habana had (and still has) tobacco factories. Habana was the most important port of the Spanish Empire in America, and the cities around also enriched because of that fact. Habana's growth swallowed all those cities around, and nowadays they seem to be one and only city, but this is only apparent. Even nowadays, when someone who lives in Marianao borough or district crosses the Almendares River, which is the border, he/she always says "I'm going to Habana to shop". Anyway, you can merge both articles, or write one article for Habana and do the same for the rest of the disctrics. By the way, the population of Habana City Province of 2.2 million people, are from the last census of 2002. In ten years, the population have grown, for sure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.218.88.159 (talk) 19:17, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

General[edit]

Irrelevant[edit]

"On the night of July 8-9, 2005, the city took a direct hit from Hurricane Dennis." - unless we are going to mention every hurricane strike. Wilma was more significant to the city.

"Havana was a candidate to host the 2012 Summer Olympic Games, but was not shortlisted." - is this important ?

"Jacomino is a stretch along the San Miguel road (west-east), between Vírgen del Camino and Ciudad Mar, and between Guardiola and La Fernanda (north-south). Its three major streets are Santa Emilia, Calzada and Beltrán." - unless we are going to list every one of dozens/hundreds of neighbourhoods.

-- Beardo 06:04, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


Municipalities[edit]

boroughs[edit]

I don't think this section is correct. (and shouldn't be spelt burough ?)

My dictionary says that borough = municipio in Spanish. In that case, Miramar is not a borough, but is part of Playa, and Vedado is part of Plaza de la Revolucion.

I think the full list of municipios needs to come in from Ciudad de la Habana. -- Beardo 07:17, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I changed the word "Borough" to "Neighbourhood" as a temporary solution to make the page more correct.
I agree on merging the province and the city. Since no-one has commented your proposal in about two weeks, I guess it should be ok to go ahead and do it. I'll try to read up on how to do the merging (like getting forwarding to Habana from the province article)
Erland Lewin 10:03, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Should each municipio have its own page ?

-- Beardo 15:56, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I think that depends on how much information we have about each municipio.
When you moved the municipio list you lost the information about sights or interesting places in each municipio which was in the 'neighbourhood' list. I think that information deserves to stay, and organizing places (and thereby wiki-links to interesting places, such as the Museo de la Revolucion) in Havana under the Municipios seems like a logical way to do it.
If we get more than a couple of paragraphs about a give municipio, then I think we can split it into a separate article.
Until that time, I think we could do redirects for the municipio names to the Havana article.
What do you think?
Erland Lewin 22:22, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I didn't lose it - someone else removed it - see next section.

-- Beardo 23:27, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

AlbertR's revision[edit]

Earlier today, AlbertR removed:

"== Central Neighbourhoods of Havana and their Sights== - Listed in order from west to east, along the coast, central Havana is divided into the following boroughs:

- ===Miramar=== - The border of Miramar and Vedado to the east is the Río Almendares (the Almendares river). - - ===Vedado=== - Vedado stretches from Miramar to the Calzada de Infanta street, where it meets Centro Habana. - - In Vedado lies: - *the Hotel Nacional - *University of Havana (Universidad de La Habana) - Founded over two hundred years ago, this is Cuba's most famous university. - *the Museo Napeléonico, the huge Necrópolis de Colón cemetery, The Plaza de la Revolución with monuments to José Martí and Che Guevara, and the Plaza Anti-Imperialista where the U.S. Special Interests Office lies. - *La Rampa is the segment from Calle L (L Street) to Malecón of the 23rd Avenue in which we can find many night-life atractions (clubs, cinemas, hotels, bars). Its terraced slope allows a specatcular view of the sea. - - ===Centro Habana=== - Centro Habana lies between Calzada de Infanta street and Paseo de Martí, also known as the Prado. - - On the eastern side, facing the Capitolio, lies the Fábrica de Tobacos Partagás where much of the production of Cuba's most prestigious cigars takes place. Tours are given of the cigar production process. - - ===Habana Vieja (Old Havana)=== - Old Havana preserves a wealth of Spanish Colonial architecture, and is a UNESCO World Heritage Site. - - It is the main tourist area of Havana, containing: - - *the Plaza de Armas - *the Plaza de la Catedral - *the Museo de la Revolución - *the Museo Nacional de Bellas Artes - *the Museo Fundación Destilera Havana Club - *La Punta, the starting point of Prado Ave., or Paseo del Prado. It is the intersection of Prado with Malecón Ave. - - ===Habana del Este=== - Habana del Este lies across from Habana Vieja, on the other side of the Canal de Entrada."

with the comment "wikipedia is not a travel guide". However much of that information is useful and should be incorporated.

-- Beardo 23:33, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

User:AlbertR: What parts more precisely do you object against?
Is listing the borders between the neighbourhoods irrellevant? I can see that it might seem a bit detailed, but my thought was that if we eventually turn each municipio into its own article, this is a part of a definition of the areas.
Do you object to listing major landmarks, museums, and the university (for which there is a separate article)? I don't think this contradicts the "Wikipedia is not a travel guide" rule; the rule itself states that it is ok to list for example the Eiffel tower and the Louvre in Paris.
Do you object to stating that Old Havana is a UNESCO World Heritage Site? To me that would seem like obviously relevant information in an article about Havana.
Erland Lewin 08:31, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Recent additions[edit]

Someone has added a lot of new stuff here. Some seems to be translated from another language, and the English certainly needs to be improved. -- Beardo 12:40, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I've had a go at a few paragraphs but there's a lot to get through and it's time consuming.--Zleitzen 13:39, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Why instead of complaining about the language don't you edit it and it will be much better, or you could of write it everything if you knew the information. Thanks!

That's what I've been doing out of respect to your additions, rather than deleting your work as per guidelines. It's taking up a fair amount of time. It would have been more helpful if you'd have taken the time yourself to ensure that your material was coherent. Another option would be that we nominate an editor to decipher your work so it can be read by users, I nominate you. In future such material will be reverted on sight.Thanks.--Zleitzen 23:53, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Photos[edit]

A picturesque city like Havana certainly has a lot of nice vistas, but overloading an article with images breaks the usefullness and flow of information; just a word of caution: limit the use of images to what is necessary; on the other hand, there are a lot of articles about parts of Havana that lack images, maybe they could be re-distributed towards those pages. - Qyd(talk)16:57, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Mistakes[edit]

About those taxis named colectivos: What are the Colectivos mentioned in the section about transportation? I do live in Havana and I do not know anything resembling the description given. They are described as taxis, but on the other hand they are said to be cheaper than buses. Buses here cost 40 cents of a Cuban peso, so I would like to know about these cheaper taxis, because I could make a better use of my salary. No, seriously, I could fix this, but I would like to know who got this information and/or why is it here.

The location of the second foundation: La Chorrera and Río Almendares are not on the southern part of the island, but are within the city!!! Río Almendares divides the current municipalities of Vedado and Miramar, and Puentes Grandes is just a district in Marianao, crossed by the Almendares river, not a town by any means. If the Rough guides ever said so, they're downright wrong! La Chorrera is about 8 kilometers away of Old Havana (every habanero knows El Malecón starts at La Punta and ends at La Chorrera). Obviously, the text in the article was literally translated from [3], but the translation was incorrect.

As you say - part of the problem is punctuation - the reference to south relates to the previous part. Barrio clearly should not be translated to town. -- Beardo 23:55, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

The city's official name and status: is Ciudad de la Habana, not San Cristóbal de la Habana. That was the historic name alright, but it became extinct as of 1976, with the new División Politico-Administrativa. There's no difference between the city and the province, they are the same thing, and occupy the exact same space.

The 1976 change's purpose was to excorporate the city from the province, due to the fact that the city's population was big enough to warrant this. So, even if some areas in Ciudad de la Habana appear to be near rural, they are to be considered part of the city as well.

Carenas Bay is incorrect: Puerto Carenas or Carenas Port would be the precise term. There's no geographical bay with that name (the bay of the city was, and is, plainly named Bahía de la Habana). The bay hosted several ports (as well as the shipworks) and Puerto Carenas was just one of them (others are Casablanca, Regla, etc.)

Corrected this in the article. Careening Bay was the closest translation I could find. Bartolomé de las Casas, in the XVI century, already called it "Bahia de la Habana", but does say its previous name was de Carenas. Puerto means harbor, but could also double as bay. I also corrected the paragraph about the city's name, whose text was a bit criptic and told about Saint Cristopher being a giant saint who crossed rivers with a palm tree doubling as a cane (???) -- EmirCalabuch 10:28, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Cathedral's construction:

...Between 1789 and 1790 Cuba was apportioned into individual diocese by the Catholic Church. Shortly thereafter, Havana Cathedral was erected...

The Cathedral's works started on 1748, that's shortly before the 1789-1790 period indicated.

Columbus remains:

On January 15, 1796, the remains of Christopher Columbus were transported to the island from Santo Domingo...

While right, it fails to notice that Columbus' remains were not so shortly thereafter (1898) transported back to Spain, where they rest now on Seville's Cathedral.

Fortifications: while La Fuerza, La Punta, El Morro and La Cabaña are Havana's most famous fortresses, the city had a few more, specifically El Príncipe, Atarés, which defended the Shipworks at the farthest angle of the bay, the same La Chorrera mentioned in the first paragraph, the Santa Clara battery on the Taganana hill (where the Hotel Nacional now raises) and the famous (at the time) Doce Apóstoles battery located at sea level below La Cabaña, as well as a couple other fortified hills and surface batteries. Most of these fortresses, although built between the XVII and the XIX centuries (most of them between 1762 and 1780), are not located in the Old Havana area, but are extramuros (literally, outside the walls, except for La Punta, La Fuerza and perhaps Atarés). The Old Havana district is considered to be delimited by the perimeter of the city walls, most of the area outside the walls was military zone and therefore off-limits for citizens (the penalty for trespassing involved chopping off a leg, in fact the Vedado district, whose name means Forbidden, was baptized as such for this very reason). Therefore, describing these fortresses as places to see in the Old Havana area is incorrect, as most are technically outside Old Havana (unless the term "Old Havana" refers to the older city in its entirety, and not the Old Havana district).

When I have some spare time I'll correct these issues. In the meantime, I look forward for comments or corrections.

Oops, I forgot to sign. -- EmirCalabuch 07:52, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Trivia[edit]

"Melbourne is sometimes considered the Havana of the first world". Where did this come from? Is it NPOV? The only source I can find is on google, on this blog.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.61.134.116 (talkcontribs) 02:06, 23 August 2006

"Trivia" and "Notable residents" are arguably OK for small, low importance articles. The Havana article is comming along quite well, it improved nicely over the past few months. Some sections grew to the point where they need sub-articles. It has enough true and intersesting facts, I say we delete the Trivia and Notable residents sections alltogether, as they are, well, trivial.--Qyd 14:40, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
The notable persons is a bizarre pairing. Do other cities have anything like that ? -- Beardo 18:22, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

?[edit]

I think is just rediculous how someone is deleting everything and making it their way. There has being an article for Old Havana, Old Havana is not a city, it belongs to the city of Havana; so why is there an article for Old Havana instead it should be a part for Havana. What's up with the edit war? 9/3/6 Ricardo.

I am not sure what edit war you refer to, but Old Havana is a municipality. and is a separately designated UNESCO world heritage site. It therefore deserves its own page. This page is getting too long anyway. -- Beardo 07:28, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Whoever said "La Habana" in the recording sounds nothing like a Havanero. Probably not even Cuban. kashasu —Preceding undated comment added 02:13, 5 April 2009 (UTC).

Not sure what this means...[edit]

Can someone please translate the sentence "Before the hotels and restaurants, the Cadillac, Chevrolet and Buick park in triple line waiting, to the buttons."? This sentence is listed under the Republican Period Paragraph...and I really can't figure out what it means. Maybe its just me...but it seems to be totally out of place. --Tbkflav 01:59, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

See JACKELINE CASA RENTA http://www.jackehouse.metropoliglobal.com/spanish/ciudad-y-cultura.html - "Ante los hoteles y restaurantes, los Cadillac, Crevrolet y Buick aparcan en triple fila aguardando, a los botones." I am not sure if that is a reference to bellboys.
Much of this seems taken from that site - http://www.jackehouse.metropoliglobal.com/english/city-and-culture.html - copyvio ?
-- Beardo 05:43, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Topics from 2007-2008[edit]

Coat of Arms[edit]

The current Coat of Arms of the city does not includes the oak branch and the laurel wreath on the sides and the crown on top which the original one has, as does the Coat of Arms of Cuba and the Province of Havana. I've found the original one to replace it. DanishWolf 22:46, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Miami?[edit]

With the extremely large numger of Cuban ex-patriots living in Miami, why isn't it listed as one of Havana's sister cities? -- -140.247.23.12 (talkcontribs) on 00:43, 6 July 2007

Miami would be the last city in the world they would make sister cities with. Don't you know much about their politics. -- -66.176.46.88 (talkcontribs) on 23:18, 14 July 2007

Sports[edit]

Who said Cubans like soccer? It's one of the few latin american countries who doesn't play or like much soccer. I mean, they like it, just not enough to mention it. Boxing and other sports should be mentionned before. -- -207.134.71.133 (talkcontribs) on 15:44, 10 August 2007

  • Cubans seem to be more interested in soccer in recent years - it is shown on TV regularly, and you see kids in the street playing it a lot more than only a few years ago. -- Beardo (talk) 00:32, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Split[edit]

This article is getting ridiculously long, with some sections diving in excessive detail. Is it time to split to some sub-articles such as Architecture of Havana and Transportation in Havana? --Qyd (talk) 16:24, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Coat of arms and flag[edit]

Havana or no city or province of Cuba has a flag, who created this flag and with what references? there is no reference to it. Regarding the coat of arms in the page is old and too small compared to the new one with higher resolution created by the user HansenBCN. L'Écolier (talk) 18:34, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

This is absolutely not true, I lived in Havana 25 years and the flag of the city is every where in historical and tourists’ spots. The TV Channel 4, dedicated to the citizens of Havana only (not the national channels Cubavision and Telerebelde), displays this flag as its icon between programs. The three towers in the flag represents each of the main fortress built to protect the city in the early years (that I am not an expert but I think it was La Punta, La Fuerza and El Castillo del Morro). The key has always represents the importance of Habana, due to its geographical location, for trading and commerce into the Americas.
I agree with you that the article requires cleanup, but removing information, at random, based on your opinion, is not what Wikipedia is for. If the information is extensive and can be moved to other articles, please do that first.
Thanks, Miguel.mateo (talk) 19:55, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Thinking it twice, you might be right, since maybe the flag that I mentioned displays the coat of arms. Let me find out, I am sure there gotta be references to it somewhere. Miguel.mateo (talk) 19:59, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Please do, I've been in Havana as well several times and I've seen the coat of arms in several places even in the Metropolitan buses but never the flag. And regarding the coat of arms? the new coat of arms has a much better resolution, why is it you keep deleting it? L'Écolier (talk) 20:25, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Ecolier, I do not have an issue with the new images or some of the proposals for text removals and re-write, I am simply reverting your change. If you do the changes one by one I will revert the coat of arms as well as the others. It is not personal, if the changes make sense I am all for it. I will put the coat of arms back, you can do the other texts. Thanks, Miguel.mateo (talk) 21:53, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Topics from 2009-2011[edit]

how is havana spelled in spanish?[edit]

i thought it was with a v we just pronounce it habana because well we do that with v's alot.98.211.174.244 (talk) 06:02, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

It would be nice to have a section detailing how la Habana became Havana in English. I assume it's for the pronunciation of Habana in Spanish, but how did it become an orthographic V? The best I can come up with is here. It also seems to be Havana in most other langauges, so was there earlier vacillation in Spanish, or what? —Wiki Wikardo 02:27, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

If La Habana is Havana for non Spanish speakers, then accordingly, New York should be New Jork for Spanish speakers. San Augustine was colonized and named by the Spanish, so Saint Augustine is another foolish attempt at anglofying the names given by the settelers (the people that did the HARD work) for the convience of undereducated monolinguals. MdP.

Hello MdP, German people use the word "Mailand" for Milano and "Arnheim" for Arnhem. People from the Netherlands say "Parijs" instead of Paris. The English speaking call Vlissingen "Flushing" and they who speak Spanish say "Flesinga". These are just a few examples; there's a lot more. What are you going to do about this?--Antiphus (talk) 13:15, 9 October 2009 (UTC) p.s. For an alternative theory about the etymology of Havana, see: Where Troy Once Stood

"Havana" was the first spelling that the spaniards gave to the aboriginal Taino (Arawak) name The meaning is not totally clear, it could be a corruption of the word "sabana" (grass plain). But the Indians had no difference between "v" and "b" and the Spaniards were at that time in process of loosing it. (In modern Spanish language only very few people in some parts of Spain differentiate these sounds). So, with time, spelling was changes to Habana (as in "sabana" and other word of Taino origin). So, Havana has nothing to with "Haven", a word that is not known in Spanish. --200.55.142.140 (talk) 20:16, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

UTC, if your the person that started this section then I commend you. And MdP you are 100% correct in the USA they are anglofying many words in the languages of other cultures to make it easier for them to pronounce, instead of learning the pronunciation themselves. I have many Persian friends and I'm always asking them hey how do you pronounce this or that because I believe it is classy to be cultured. But you know what they say, money nor education buy CLASS. I don't try to pronounce it in Spanish or English. This is an issue that has driven me mad for years. People who are monolingual spelling names so that it's easier for them to pronounce. A little about me: I'm a Cuban American that was born in Cuba in 1972 and raised in Miami most of my life. I'm a very proud Cuban whom has never given up his heritage or culture, we call the ones who do in Spanish "Un latino arrepentido". I have many old relatives, even a great grandmother that passed away some years ago she was 104. I talk to my relatives about the old Cuba cause I want to know about the old days and the truth about things. I don't like getting my facts from what I call GOOGLESEARCH, folk go on there do a search click on a link and think they just learned the truth about something, one of the major drawbacks of the internet, it helps make people ignorant as well as educate some. I have post cards dating back from the 30s' where Habana was spelled this way, the correct way. Also all of our birth certificates have the correct spelling with a B.

To the individual whom wrote the article above stating that the Spaniards spelled Habana with a V and not a B you are wrong. PLease be kind enough to provide me with the evidence to your statement, I ask because I have been looking into this issue for quite some time; feel free to email it to me at itshabananothavana@yahoo.com yes this is a real email. I am bound to get to the truth of this matter so stay tuned for more updates. jmruvira September 5, 2013 01:32am. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmruvira (talkcontribs) 05:35, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Transportation[edit]

Hi I'm from Cuba and usually work in the spanish wiki, the section of Transportation is really behind the reality, the "camellos", doesn't exist since 2007, they were changed by modern articulated chinese buses, and is not anymore with M now is with a P, for eample M-1, now is P-1, I hope that you fix the problem as soon as you can.....if you wan yos check the spanish article.......--Yazle (talk) 18:09, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

  • Thank you for the note. I am updating the text about the metrobus and "camellos" as in the Spanish WP. -Wikid77 (talk) 05:20, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Retrofit talk-page year headers[edit]

22-Oct-10: I have added subheaders above as "Topics from 2005" (etc.) to emphasize the dates of topics in the talk-page. Older topics might still apply, but using the year headers helps to focus on more current issues as well. Afterward, I dated/named unsigned comments and moved 1 entry ("About article's consistence") into date order for 2005. -Wikid77 (talk) 05:20, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Change in the official name of Havana[edit]

Starting from January 1, 2011, the official name is no longer "Ciudad de La Habana". It turned back to "La Habana", since the La Habana province was abolished. Now, the territory surrounding the city belongs to the newly formed Mayabeque and Artemisa Provinces. --200.55.142.140 (talk) 20:11, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Sections copied to another article[edit]

Another editor has copied all of the history sections into History of Havana, Cuba. I leave for editors editing this page to decide whether this would be an inappropriate content fork. Singularity42 (talk) 22:50, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi, I created a new page and moved The History of Havana and just left the most important information here, this section was extremely long and hard to follow. I also rephrased lots of junk or re-edited many other information to meet Wikipedia's Standards. EnExilio (talk) 01:41, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

A content fork of the type is standard among city articles. It helps keep things "short and sweet" on the main article while simultaneously allowing a fork to focus more on the general history of the city. The only change I made was redirecting History of Havana, Cuba to [History of Havana]]. The disambiguation was not necessary. 08OceanBeachS.D. 01:46, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Indeed looks much more cleaner. I've also helped rephrasing and removing unnecessary information that makes the article extremely biased or boring, while leaving key topics. Hopefully it will remain clean with key topics only and we might all bring it to a GA. DanishWolf (talk) 02:09, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

File:Commuter rail, Havana.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion[edit]

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Havana - missing word?[edit]

Seems there is a word missing in front of 'buildings', or perhaps the last instance of 'Old Havana' should simply be 'Havana'?

"The narrow streets of old Havana contain many buildings, accounting for perhaps as many as one-third of the approximately 3,000 buildings found in Old Havana"

96.49.209.73 (talk) 20:38, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

"chicken period"[edit]

In the section titled Republican period and Post revolution, the article states "During the chicken Period, from 1902 to 1959, the city saw a new era of development." Is this vandalism, or was this actually referred to as the "chicken period" ? It was inserted in this revisionFractalecho2 (talk) 16:52, 21 October 2013 (UTC)