Talk:Heliocentrism

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Former good article Heliocentrism was one of the Natural sciences good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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First sentence of lead[edit]

I have restored the first sentence of the lead to the (correct) version that appeared in this revision of the page from last December 4th. "Heliocentricism" is a perfectly correct term, recorded in both the OED and the SOED. While reverting some vandalism on December 13th, this edit mistakenly replaced "heliocentricism" with "heliocentric", which had remained until it was removed yesterday (quite correctly) as ungrammatical. Unfortunately, this last edit also restored the incorrect title of the National Academy of Sciences' book Teaching about Evolution and the Nature of Science, which had been truncated by an earlier act of vandalism or carelessness.
David Wilson (talk · cont) 11:05, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

I am wondering about the word "relatively" in the opening sentence. What does it mean? That the Sun is nearly stationary? That the Sun is stationary relative to the Earth? Or to the distant stars? Or to the frame of reference in use? The term is not explained anywhere, so I suggest that it be dropped. Roger (talk) 17:09, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Date rather odd[edit]

Under "Heliocentrism and Judaism", "13-5" seems to be a mistake. Possibly 1305, 1315, 1325 or the like might be right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.27.109.117 (talk) 11:34, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

No documentary evidence to prove it[edit]

"The possibility that Copernicus independently developed the Tusi couple remains open, since no researcher has yet proven that he knew about Tusi's work or the Maragha school" I think there is a contention built up against that notion. 1 2 3Faro0485 (talk) 11:25, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Two points:
  • First, the three texts you cite above merely assert a technical commonality between Copernicus's mathematical device and the Tusi couple, they do not provide any evidence that Copernicus had access to the texts of the Maragha school or that of al-Tusi. Interestingly, Neugebauer, HAMA, p. 1035, a text cited by Saliba in your first source, appears to attribute the Tusi couple and the Copernicus device to Proclus: "Copernicus quotes Proclus for his theorem in the original version, but he uses it (in the theory of Mercury) in the expanded form ... which is also found in Ṭūsī."
  • Second, the entire discussion of the Tusi couple and the possible knowledge of it by Copernicus is really irrelevant to a discussion of heliocentrism, which is the topic of this article. It may be significant that much of this marginal discussion was added [1] [2] [3] to this article by the problematic blocked editor, Jagged 85, noted for his misuse of sources. --SteveMcCluskey (talk) 21:01, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
I've just Boldly deleted most of the discussion of the Tusi couple. Feel free to edit as appropriate. SteveMcCluskey (talk) 16:43, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Copernicus model would have worked[edit]

Copernicus' basic intent was to eliminate the epicycles that were an important element of Ptolemy's empirical mathematical model. Copernicus' empirical model would have worked if the planetary orbits had been circular as assumed. Copernicus ran up against a new bug-a-boo, however: Elliptic orbits, which required as many if not more epicycles to get the curve fits right. In that respect Copernicus' efforts were a failure. Heliocentrism was the germ of an idea, however, that ultimately panned out. Tycho's model was an also-ran. Ptolemy's model worked just fine and can still be used today to compute rough estimates of planetary positions. To send probes to the planets, however, you need Newtonian physics with a tinge of Einstein to be really accurate. Virgil H. Soule (talk) 16:32, 26 December 2013 (UTC)


The section on the Copernican Revolution should be made briefer for better overview[edit]

The section on the Copernican Revolution seems larger than the separate article on the Copernican Revolution. It should be made briefer, and any relevant information that is here that is not already in the separate article should be integrated into the separate article. DanielDemaret (talk) 11:32, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Reference[edit]

The reference to Melanchthon is quoted from Bruce T. Moran, The Universe of Philip Melanchthon: Criticism and Use of the Copernican Theory, Comitatus 4, 1973: 1-23. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.68.199.137 (talk) 12:31, 25 April 2014 (UTC)