This article is within the scope of WikiProject China, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of China related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Anthropology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Anthropology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Numismatics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Numismatism-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Half of this article was copy-pasted from the site linked at the bottom of the page, and the rest was lifted from another site elsewhere on the web. Typical wikipedia trash. Wikipedia + Google = worst things to ever happen to the internet.
"I agree. This site has also become to much like a networking site, & there have been far to many flame wars to call it an 'Ecylopedia'. They realy should raise the standerds and have set registration for edits" Roxanne Edits 17:00, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
The article states all Hell Notes have the serial number JO23456. I have a $10,000 greenback with the serial number KO23688, and the note on top of this stack appears to have Chinese symbols for its serial. I've removed the note on serials becuase of this. boffy_b 23:13, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
This article should also talk about the hell money made in traditional Chinese banknotes style... my grandpa burned those sort for my grandma and AFAIK the store he bought these from sold just the Chinese sort. -- Миборовский 21:08, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
I've removed the comment on hyperinflation for being condescending. Its about as fair as suggesting that the communion implies that Jesus was into cannibalism.
Joss paper is not the same as hell money. There are joss paper dolls and all the "gods material shops" objects that has nothing to do with hell bank note. Benjwong 21:36, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
I agree: no need to merge. I'm using Wikipedia as a starting point to research this area, and I don't find the division into two articles a problem. Hell money is potentially a sizeable article (it depends how much detail is added), and might bloat the joss paper article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dayvey (talk • contribs) 18:07, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
It would be good to include some information about the history of Hell Bank Notes. When and where were they first created ? When did the designs start aping US currency? What (if anything) did they look like before that ? --Gene_poole 06:25, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Wow. I read through the whole article and nowhere does it explicitly say that those banknotes have no monetary value... Can someone who knows the answer fix this? 220.127.116.11 (talk) 19:43, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
How did this become the default? It's "Hell money", not "hell bank note"
On a quick google, 115k to 23k. It's not even close. Dabbing a single episode (named after the money!) of an old TV show isn't worth supporting a variant term here. — LlywelynII 16:44, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: moved —Darkwind (talk) 20:20, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
Fwiw, the name is also less accurate: there is no known Reserve Bank of Hell and only some hell money claims that it originates from one. Relisted. BDD (talk) 17:21, 3 December 2012 (UTC) — LlywelynII 16:51, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
But "ghost money" could refer to any kind of joss paper (and it currently redirects to that article), not just hell notes. Although the term "hell bank note/money" might strictly be a misnomer, that's what appears in English on the bills. — AjaxSmack 02:03, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Look at either of the links I gave. They both use "ghost money" to refer to this subject. The Chinese call it "spirit money" (冥钱; míng qián). Why would you refer to a paper house as "ghost money"? It doesn't strike as a natural way to use the phrase. Type in "ghost money" on Google, click images, and see what comes up. Kauffner (talk) 04:06, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
I wasn't talking about joss houses. I was talking about the cash, silver, and gold joss paper which is burnt by Chinese. This is not "hell money" but it is "ghost money". I'm arguing "hell notes/money" ∈ "ghost money" ∈ joss paper. — AjaxSmack 04:44, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
I don't see any basis to say that hell money is something different than ghost money. This is from Highbeam: "It is also known as ghost money, spirit money or hell money." Here is the New York Times: "Like other ethnic Chinese across Asia, Taiwan families, businesses and temples regularly burn paper "ghost" money in ancestor worship and other rituals." Whether a note has an English-language inscription or not means nothing to the people who burn them. As I explained above, Vietnam has the same custom. But of course they print their own notes with inscriptions in Vietnamese, and nothing about a "Bank of Hell". Kauffner (talk) 14:38, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
That's a good case for a merge, then. I was addressing the titles for the current articles. — AjaxSmack 22:23, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
Comment. As a numismatist/notaphilist myself, I have generally seen these called "Hell Notes", which differs from either choice presented. I think there may be some sort of archaic insinuation in the use of the phrase "Hell", but that is the common name used in the hobby in the United States, at least. Given this is the English Wikipedia, unless the UK, Canada, Australia, etc. are wildly different, I think "Hell Note" is a better descriptor. Additionally, that removes the "bank" controversy, which I agree, should happen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cdtew (talk • contribs) 05:44, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
On Highbeam, I found three relevant news stories for "ghost money" published in the last two years: US Fed News Service (This story gives "ghost money" five times, "Hell money" once as an AKA), The Economist, and Vietnam News Agency. "Hell money" got two hits: US Fed News Service (same story) and New Straits Times. Nothing came up for either "Hell Note" or "Hell Bank Note". Kauffner (talk) 10:18, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
I agree with Kauffner—or at least what I think he's saying. Does it really make sense for this and joss paper to be separate articles? --BDD (talk) 20:07, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
Comment: Borderline IMO, but definitely not a merge. The hell note is a specific form of joss paper with plenty of material for a separate article. Either the current or proposed name seems equally acceptable to me. Andrewa (talk) 18:08, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
Comment: The links on both the Joss paper and Hell money articles link to the same Chinese article zh:紙錢, and the Chinese terms listed on each page for each article‘s topic are identical. I don't agree that the hell money article should be distinct from the joss paper article, which the Chinese article links back to. The two are not distinct linguistically in Chinese.
"Hell Bank Note" is pure Chinglish and has no business appearing as any title of any serious encyclopedia article. It probably popped out of baidu translate when some high school kid was doing the graphic design for his uncle's spirit money factory and has been parroted ever since. If I buy a train ticket to Shanghai, it says ShangHai in English on it, but I would never use this as evidence for changing the title of the Shanghai article to ShangHai.
In my experience, I've seen the term spirit money in English discussions more than any other and is more accurate than most others. It is synonymous with hell money, which is itself not a very accurate translation and so has not gained so much currency in English. Much of the information in the Hell money article would be redundant once placed in the joss paper article, so it seems like having a spirit money section there would be the best course of action.-Devin Ronis (d.s.ronis) (talk) 12:19, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
Merge into Joss paper: Per D.s.ronis. I don't see this article making any claim for being distinct. The only argument I see against a merge is Andrewa's claim that there is plenty of material. Since that is not the case currently (The material of Hell bank note#Customs fits neatly in Joss paper#Use, and the other sections in Joss paper#Contemporary), I assume he means that he is aware of material that might be added in the future, thus making this article big enough to warrant being split up. But we can cross that bridge when we come to it. — Sebastian 16:52, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.