Talk:Henry Carey, 1st Baron Hunsdon

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nonsense[edit]

This is not an encyclopedia article on Lord Hunsdon. It is random nonsense. john k 04:47, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

It appears the "nonsense" has been cleaned up some time ago. -- ShinmaWa(talk) 21:07, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Dates for affair[edit]

I've removed "briefly" as it's argumentative. You can't say "briefly" and then also state that the exact dates are unknown. If they are unknown, we don't know how brief it was. Wjhonson 17:59, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


What historians have speculated that Anne "took" Henry to make her more appealing to Henry. Phillipa Gregory is not a historian. I'm taking it off, until someone provides a source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.129.220.146 (talk) 01:09, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Wiltshire or Ormonde[edit]

A question from WP:AFC Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:13, 22 December 2007 (UTC): In the entry on Henry Carey, 1st Baron Hunsdon of Hunsdon, Wikipedia say on page three that on his deathbed he was offered the Earldom of Wiltshire however, on the entry for Mary Boleyn (his mother) Wikipedia says that he was offered the Earldom of Ormonde - was he offered both titles or is one an error ? 86.192.136.248 18:38, 23 August 2006

He was offered the earldom of Ormonde. The earldom of Wiltshire had been given to the family only in the direct male line, under the condition that when this died out it reverted to the crown. On George Boleyn's death in 1536 (as he had no son), it went to the crown. The earldom of Ormonde had been given with no such restrictions, and should have gone to Henry Carey as the eldest son and heir of Thomas Boleyn's only surviving child. Therefore, it should never have been withheld from the Careys. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boleyn (talkcontribs) 13:15, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

timing[edit]

The article currently reads:

The idea that Carey was Henry VIII's secret son has spawned several Tudor legends, even becoming a central part of modern fiction, such as the recent novel The Other Boleyn Girl (loosely based on the life of Mary Boleyn). However, Henry Carey was not born until March 1526 [1] - by which time the affair is believed to have ended.

Obviously it's irrelevant if Carey was born when the affair was over; it's only relevant if he was conceived when the affair was over (or ongoing). I don't have Letters & Papers; could someone please check to see if the reference actually discusses time of conception? If not, then this sentence needs to be rewritten; at the least it is not a "however" which suggests some contradiction. --Lquilter (talk) 20:43, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Reference[edit]
  1. ^ Letters & Papers' viii.567
  • I rewrote it to remove the ambiguity and false implication per Talk:Mary Boleyn. Basically just moved the timing information with the rest of the timing of the affair section, and left the rumors-about-bastardy section alone. --Lquilter (talk) 23:28, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

anne custody section[edit]

This section is very confusingly written:

William Carey, Henry's legal father, died suddenly from the sweating sickness on 23 June 1528 when Henry was only two. Carey and his elder sister Catherine came under the wardship of his maternal aunt Anne Boleyn, engaged to Henry VIII at the time and feared she may not be able to have a son of her own. The child still had active contact with his mother, but Anne refused to allow Mary to acknowledge him as her own son, who remained on good terms with her sister, until her secret elopement with a soldier, William Stafford (later Lord of Chebsey) in 1535.

I'm proposing a rewrite (below) but the original is so confusing I'm not sure it's accurate. Let me know; I've bolded and struck out material to make it clear.

William Carey, Henry's legal father, died suddenly from the sweating sickness on 23 June 1528 when Henry was only two. Carey and his elder sister Catherine came under the wardship of his their maternal aunt Anne Boleyn, who was engaged to Henry VIII at the time. and feared she may not be able to have a son of her own. [Striking this last clause because I'm not sure what it has to do with the guardianship.] The children still had active contact with his their mother, but Anne refused to allow Mary to acknowledge his William as her own son. Nevertheless, Anne and Mary , who remained on good terms with her sister, until Mary's her secret elopement with a soldier, William Stafford (later Lord of Chebsey) in 1535.

--Lquilter (talk) 22:05, 4 March 2008 (UTC) This is a good rewrite but I have never read a suggestion that Henry Carey (not William as you've put above) was denied access to his mother or that Anne said Mary couldn't acknowledge him as her son. This sounds as if it has come from a fiction book, but if anyone has a reference I'd be interested to check it out. I think that point should be removed.. --User:boleyn (talk) 07:05, 5 March 2008

  • Yeah, I don't have a reference for it; I was just trying to retain the original content but in a more understandable form. I'll put the rewrite in for now, with your correction, add a {{cn}} to it, and if nobody adduces a reference for it in the next couple of days we can take it out. --Lquilter (talk) 17:41, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Spoke too soon. Looks like you already removed that assertion. I rewrote to leave it out. If someone wants to put it back in, with a reference, the language is here. --Lquilter (talk) 17:44, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Heraldic graphic[edit]

Looks very nice, unfortunately as it's currently displayed it would have been the arms of the second son of whoever was Baron Hunsdon at the time.

I refer to the crescent. Please look under Cadency article.

It should be redone.

Tonybaldacci (talk) 19:27, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

I observe that similar arms are shown in the article on George Carey, 2nd Baron Hunsdon. Might they relate to a whole branch of a family? The more I look into the rules governing differences, the more I realize that they are not as cut and dried as some writers would have us believe. My knowledge of heraldry is a little rusty, so I do not propose to lay down the law, but neither man was a second son and these arms are said to appear on Henry's monument. See File:Coat of arms of Sir Henry Carey, 1st Baron Hunsdon, KG.png. LynwoodF (talk) 09:00, 12 August 2014 (UTC)