Talk:Herder

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From VfD:

  • Delete. I think Herdsman should be moved here to avoid sexism. Any objections must be explained using as much detail as you can. 66.245.124.71 22:52, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep perfectly ok disambig page. (and nominator hasn't even mentioned reasons yet) Kim Bruning 23:06, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Well, how else can sexism be removed from Herdsman. 66.245.124.71 23:06, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
    • Oh, right. I see. I think. %-) Hmm try just editing Herdsman? Though I'm not sure if I understand what sexism can be found there. Kim Bruning 23:19, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
      • The answer is that the title "herdsman" is gender-specific. 66.245.124.71 23:19, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
        • If you think so. You can discuss that kind of thing better on Talk:Herdsman , saves VFD discussion if you ask me. :-)
  • Delete, then move herdsman to herder, adding the link to Johann Gottfried Herder as a diambiguation at the top of the page. Do not cut-n-paste move herdsman into herder. -Sean Curtin 02:59, Aug 22, 2004 (UTC)
    • Agree with Sean. To 66.245.124.71, for future reference, this sort of thing should not be discussed here (VFD is too long as it is) Discuss on the talk page, if there are no objections list at speedy deletions for an admin to do the actual deletion fot you :-) Theresa Knott 04:42, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
      • Exactly. Well put Theresa. Andrewa 07:08, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete&Move, agree with above Kim Bruning 10:57, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • All further comments on this page-move nomination should be made at Talk:Herdsman (where, by the way, I have posted my evidence for objecting). Rossami 02:45, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • True or false: we need a special page titled Wikipedia:Sexism that talks about the use of sexist language at Wikipedia. 66.245.98.143 22:03, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
    • False - if you see sexist language in an article change it. What would be the point of having a special page? Theresa Knott 22:08, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
    • Sexism in language? Languages are capable of moral and political action now? How odd. I thought speakers did those things, not languages. N.b. this is an encyclopedia. If Samuel Johnson said that a woman preacher is like a dog walking on its hinder legs, "the thing is not done well, but it is remarkable that it is done at all," we report it. If a term is the most used, either by the users who wish to retrieve information or by those being described, the obligation is to increase usability and accuracy. If the masculine -er ending is better than the masculine -man suffix, it makes little difference in usability or accuracy, so it's fine to change it. Geogre 01:29, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)
    • 1) Anon User:66.245.98.143 poses a false dichotemy. The question can not be answered with a mere "True or False". 2) If that issue is appropriate to raise, it should be raised at Wikipedia:Village Pump, not VfD. This page is only for the discussion of nominations for deletion. Rossami
  • Delete and move herdsman to herder. --Eequor 08:11, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • It's interesting to note that all the women voting want to move the page, while all the people who want to retain the article's status quo are men. -Sean Curtin 04:06, Aug 25, 2004 (UTC)
    • Sean, who has voted for the status quo on "Herdsman?" I thought I came closest by saying that the change isn't going to do a thing to change "sexism in language," because the premise that sexism exists in language, and not in speech, is fallacious, but I agreed with the change. I disagree with a special page to discuss sexism in language on Wikipedia because, again, sexism is in the authors, not the words, on the one hand, and everyone can edit articles her or himself. If you find an article with a sexist point of view, just fix it. If you find systematic sexist actions by a user, gather the evidence, discuss it with the user, and seek polite understandings. However, languages do not exist without their speakers, and once we get into the discussion of sexism in language, I already know where we go, and it's not good, and it's not efficacious -- especially compared to just fixing it yourself. Geogre 13:21, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep as disambiguation page — or revert to the redirect-version of before October 2003. When referring to Herder, writers usually don't know the full name of him, and are not the slightestly helped by an article on herdsmen. Disambiguation blocks at the top of articles are less stable than could be wished for. Herdsman can easily be moved to Herder (occupation) for sakes of political correctness. --Ruhrjung 11:55, 2004 Aug 25 (UTC)

end moved discussion