Talk:Hermann Göring

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Good article Hermann Göring has been listed as one of the Warfare good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
June 2, 2012 Good article nominee Listed
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Role in the Reichstag[edit]

This article contains nothing about Goering's position as Speaker of the Reichstag -- and HHitler's apparent fear of his control of the Party.

Nor is there anything about his personal cruelty to the left members of the Reichstag after they had been thrown into the camps.

-dlj. User talk:DavidLJ [1]

Battle of Britain section[edit]

I believe it is essential the Battle of Britain section should mention Goring's advice to Hitler to ignore the UK altogether, and instead overrun Spain and North Africa. There was never any chance at all of Operation Sea Lion being a success, since the German navy had been badly damaged in Norway and the Luftwaffe was not in a position to defeat the RAF. If Hitler had followed Goring's advice Germany could have won the war. (92.10.136.62 (talk) 17:53, 11 August 2012 (UTC))

I have reverted your addition again. The website you used is a tourist website for Gibraltar. It doesn't say where they got their information, and it doesn't list an author. This is not a good enough source to use to add material to a Good Article. And it's not fair to put the onus on me to find a source! I don't have access to the Goring biography here that I used to bring the article to GA; I can do that, but I would have to bring it in on intra-library loan, and it will take 4 to 6 weeks to get it. Looking through my other main sources (Evans, Shirer) this material is not mentioned. It's up to you to provide a good source, not me. By the way, the date of 17 September 1940 cannot possibly be correct for the postponement of Operation Sealion, as the Blitz was ongoing until May 1941. -- Dianna (talk) 19:39, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
Shirer (1960) says "diversions in Africa should be studied", but the idea came from Hitler, not Goring, as noted by Raeder and Halder after a meeting with Hitler in summer 1940. Shirer, pages 764–765. -- Dianna (talk) 19:48, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

The Blitz was used by Hitler in an attempt to break the will of the British people to continue the war. It is likely that he never intended to invade as it would have been impossible. (92.7.19.93 (talk) 13:52, 12 August 2012 (UTC))

That's not true. Extensive planning was undertaken for an invasion, including the selection of landing points, commanders, troops, and targets for the first day and the first week. Troops were moved into positions along the coast and engaged in training for amphibious warfare. The invasion never took place, as the air superiority which was considered to be a prerequisite was never obtained. Evans 2008, page 136-145; Melvin 2010 page 186-193. -- Dianna (talk) 14:43, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Air superiority would not have been enough, as Grand Admiral Donitz admitted. The Germans had lost too many ships in Norway to get the men across, and the much larger Royal Navy would have destroyed the German fleet before it reached Dover. If anything the troop build-up was designed to keep pressure on the British government. (92.7.19.93 (talk) 15:34, 12 August 2012 (UTC))

Aside from the terrible source used, the IP is right. S-L was indeed postponed on 17 September 1940 and its chances of success, with air superiority or not, were slim. It is debatable whether ignoring Britain and going for North Africa and the Middle East/Med. could have won the war. That would assume the British were the main enemy of the Reich. I would say it was ultimately the Soviets, followed by the Americans. A success against the British Empire would not have diminished the enormous (and arguably greater) threat of these two nations. Dapi89 (talk) 21:04, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

The USA were still neutral at the time. If the UK had been invaded, the effect would have massively prolonged the war (having no base of operations to launch Overlord). Also, you are discounting the technological developments that would have been stifled - Tube Alloys (started by UK & Canada, later renamed Manhattan Project) the ongoing development of RADAR, jet engines and the cavity magnetron, to name but a few examples. Also, with the emptying of the UK coffers, the USA economy would not have been kick-started into a war economy (the transfer of wealth is what helped drag the USA out of the economic doldrums of the 1930's). 135.196.157.83 (talk) 08:44, 31 January 2014 (UTC) FW

Luftwaffe[edit]

It is rather typical of biographers to get technical details wrong so it is best to add specialist sources or else myths and disinformation start to circulate. The Polish Air Force was not outnumbered 15:1. That statistic is nonsense. The figures for the relative strength of the Luftwaffe and PLW were 2,182 to 1,900. Secondly the Germans achieved air superiority in less than seven days - not through the direct destruction of the PLW by the Luftwaffe, but by the later destroying communications, facilitating the advance of the army, which overran airfields and advanced warning sites. That did for the PLW. I've added a more authoritative source. Dapi89 (talk) 17:02, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

lived as a child with his Jewish godfather?[edit]

The Albert Göring page (his brother) asserts that Hermann as a child lived with and was raised at least in part by his Jewish godfather (wiki-ized text copied from that page to preserve reference):

The Göring family lived with their children’s aristocratic godfather of Jewish heritage, Ritter Hermann von Epenstein, in his Veldenstein and Mauterndorf castles. Von Epenstein was a prominent physician and acted as a surrogate father to the children as Heinrich Göring was often absent from the family home. Göring was one of five children, his brothers were Hermann Göring and Karl Ernst Göring; his sisters were Olga Therese Sophia and Paula Elisabeth Rosa Göring, the last of whom were children of his father's first marriage.[1]

either belongs in this article or not in the other one. 68.174.97.122 (talk) 19:56, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

The material in Albert's article does not have proper sourcing, and this one does. I am the person who brought the Hermann Goering article to GA, so I personally checked the sourcing for each statement in this article. As I recall, the family never lived with von Epenstein, though he did provide the family with housing at one of his many properties. -- Dianna (talk) 20:26, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
References
  1. ^ Brandenburg 1935, p. not cited.

Once again, hassles about WWI victory scores[edit]

Hello, all,

If Goering's aerial victory score is to be retroactively revised in an attempt to rewrite history, there should at least be an explanation of who is revising, and just what standards were used in the revision. I have linked the World War I aerial victory standards to the article. Can't there be at least a footnote explaining how the modified score was calculated? And a reference to a victory by victory list, as in the itemized list in Above the Lines?

Georgejdorner (talk) 14:38, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

New addition removed[edit]

I have removed some new content that was added without sources. I think we are past the point on this wiki where unsourced material can be added to the articles, especially ones that have already achieved GA status. As well, the material needs to be re-worded to it is less about Speer and focused more on Goring. -- Diannaa (talk) 14:08, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Category German Lutherians[edit]

I used the rollback feature instead of the review tool. Apologies. My rationale for removal is that Goring was a hardly a practicing anything, except Nazi and art thief, so the new category seems very tenuous indeed. Cheers Irondome (talk) 14:55, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

It doesn't really matter weather or not he was a "practicing" member. He still identified as Lutheran till the end of his life. Therefore he is properly placed as Lutheran in the infobox. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.34.39.31 (talk) 03:10, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Summary (first paragraph) - Morphine?[edit]

So it says in the summary:

"He became permanently addicted to morphine after being treated with the drug for his injuries."

Then later in the 'Trial and Death' section, it says:

"Here he was weaned off the Dihydrocodeine pills—he had been taking the equivalent of three or four grains (260 to 320 mg) of morphine a day—and was put on a strict diet; he lost 60 pounds (27 kg)."

I don't know which is true - was he taking morphine (as in, actual morphine) or was he taking Dihydrocodeine? Either way there's an obvious contradiction in the article itself. Saying that he became addicted to morphine if he was taking dihydrocodeine is wrong, and while morphine is used as a benchmark to measure the potency of other opiates it doesn't mean it's a wildcard to substitute the names of other opiates with.

Icx120 (talk) 10:45, 17 August 2014 (UTC) icx120 17/8/14

It looks like at some point he was weaned off the morphine and dihydrocodeine was substituted. I will have to bring the source book in on inter-library loan to confirm this, but for now I will remove the word "permanently" from the lead. -- Diannaa (talk) 19:37, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
I think we need to clarify this further. G would certainly have had a potential supply of morphine before his capture. There appears to be no evidence of G definitively giving up morphine prior to may 1945. I have seen references to G being captured with copious supplies of Codeine in his baggage. He would pop them at very frequent intervals in quantity. I am unsure if these are precisely the same as dihydrocodeine. I will have to dig out the sources, but I have seen these assertions in R/S over the years. I believe Cornelius Ryan discusses some of the above in his excellent early study of the collapse of the Nazi entity, The Last Battle, which is far superior to Beevor imo. Cheers Irondome (talk) 01:16, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
Manvell on page 315-317 of the 1962 edition says that paracodeine (today called dihydrocodeine) is a mild morphine derivative. Goering was taking around 100 tablets of paracodeine per day, the equivalent of three or four grains of morphine. He had two suitcases full of the stuff when he was taken into custody. I was unable to determine at what point Goering quit morphine and switched to paracodeine as the book is poorly indexed and I don't think it's an important enough point to warrant re-reading the whole book. -- Diannaa (talk) 23:13, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Highest ranking Nazi official at Nuremberg?[edit]

In the summary, it states "he was the highest-ranking Nazi to be tried there"

in the Trial and death section, is states "Göring was the second-highest-ranking Nazi official tried at Nuremberg, behind Reich President (former Admiral) Karl Dönitz."

Which of these are true? is Karl Dönitz considered to be higher ranking than him as he became President after Hitlers death?

Davs34 (talk) 17:57, 6 September 2014 (UTC) Davs34

Hmm, I think someone changed the body of the article and missed changing the lead. I think we should go with second-highest-ranking, behind Dönitz, who at the time of the trial had the rank of former President. -- Diannaa (talk) 18:56, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
I would rank him at that point in time as second highest (even though Hitler had stripped him of all his posts and offices in late April 1945). Kierzek (talk) 00:52, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Nephew was US Bomber Pilot in the European Theater[edit]

I was just reading[1] that Hermann Göring's nephew, US Army Air Force Captain Werner Goering, was a bomber pilot flying missions over Nazi Germany and that the FBI placed a copilot in his crew with orders to kill him if the plane was shot down because of the propaganda value if he should be captured.
Dick Kimball (talk) 17:34, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

  1. ^ Frater, Stephen; Hell Above Earth; New York; St. Martin's Press; 2012