Talk:High school football

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Obviously this article is in its infancy and needs extensive fleshing out. I'd like to spotlight the differences in rules and culture in HS football vis a vis the college and pro game, as well as cover topics like recruitment of HS players and negative perceptions of HS football (i.e. jocks as bullies and perceived over-spending on sports vs. education). Variations such as 8-man and 9-man should also be covered.

I don't intend for it to link to this and that HS team although I do think that teams of national prominence should have their own pages, as should each state's interscholastic leagues. Someone has already given good coverage to HS football leagues in North Dakota. --Abdulmakesfonts 17:00, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Problematic section et al[edit]

Hi all. I'm afraid there is a problem with the section "High school football phenoms". There seems to be no criteria for inclusion in it. Some of the people included are mentioned because they set a record while playing in High School, whereas others are mentioned for setting a record as a professional or as a college player (and one even for a career record — Emmitt Smith). That is a problem because without some kind of verifiable criterion or criteria, the inclusion of a player in that list becomes a matter of personal opinion, namely that of each particular user who happened to include one name or names. The point of who is a "phenomenon" from high school football and would be worthy of mention in the article, as such, becomes highly subjective, and definitively dependent on a person's idea of who can be considered a "phenomenon" for having set a particular record while playing in High School or maybe only when playing in college or as a professional (and didn't even set a record while in High School — or at least a record that still stands). All of this means that this section is currently a violation of not just one but two policies of Wikipedia, and cannot be kept in the article as is.
This can be fixed by finding some kind of verifiable criterion, for instance listing the names of every athlete who still holds a high school record. That would, of course, mean the exclusion of some of the names listed at this time, and the inclusion of others.
That being the case, I would appreciate it if someone with a better understanding of the sport's organization would look into it and find a way that we can make this usable on Wikipedia. If that can't be done, I will remove the entire section in a few days, unfortunately.
On a side note, unless the word "phenom" is widely used when referring to record holders, or early distinguished athletes, it would really be better to use the full-length word, in this case "phenomenon". We are, after all, an encyclopedia. Thanks, Redux 20:19, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I can see that in nearly two years, not much has changed. I have tagged this section. There are no references to confirm this list. Further, there is no criteria for inclusion. What makes one a "phenom" to be included? I think that this needs to be addressed in the article, and the list either trimmed or expanded to fit, but above all, properly referenced. If this can't be done, then the whole section should probably be deleted. LonelyBeacon (talk) 21:19, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
Removed this section. I think Redux is right in that it would be more useful to list current record holders (maybe even in a separate article). Rwalker (talk) 20:58, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Related AfD[edit]

Please contribute your opinion to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of high school football rivalries (less than 100 years old). —Disavian (talk/contribs) 02:50, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Is "football" that ambiguous here?[edit]

The lead has a Wikilink to gridiron football. The lead makes it clear that the article is about the US and Canada. There's an illustration to the right of the lead showing gridiron players. Do we really need to splice a note onto the top of the article to clarify that it refers to gridiron and not soccer? —C.Fred (talk) 19:32, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes. I think the introduction should make it clear that it's American football we are talking about. By coincidence I just read an article that said 1 billion people can read English. Redddogg (talk) 22:56, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Rules[edit]

I think there should be a section that explains the HS Football ruels(if posssible).Rdrgz 93 (talk) 01:44, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

The rules are covered at American football rules. Key differences like timing are covered in summary here. —C.Fred (talk) 01:56, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Most popular in US[edit]

I don't have time to fully embed it, but by participants, 11-man football is the most popular sport in the US. http://www.nfhs.org/web/2007/09/high_school_sports_participation.aspxC.Fred (talk) 04:25, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough. Iowa13 (talk) 12:58, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Rugby's more popular in Canada[edit]

In the intro it says that after ice hockey, football is one of the most popular high school sports in Canada. I believe Canadian high schools play more rugby than football. Or is this only on the west coast? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.82.139.166 (talk) 23:21, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I think rugby is more popular on the west coast. Ice hockey isn't played much in high schools in Canada, it is played in community leagues or at the junior level. I think basketball is probably the most popular high school sport in Canada in terms or number of schools with teams.122.104.176.121 (talk) 06:59, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

The abundance of external links[edit]

Is it just me, or is the list of external links starting to get awfully long? I think the national links are fine, but I also think it's not feasible - and beyond the scope of Wikipedia - to list a site (if not 2 or 3) for every state. Are there any objections if I pare the list down to just the nationals and get rid of the state-levels? —C.Fred (talk) 22:13, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

I think that it is a red flag when an article has a list of external links this long, and only two references. I just added some boilerplates and some fact tags to give some of the experts around here some hints. It has got to be cited, or it has to go. LonelyBeacon (talk) 21:21, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
I've removed the excessive list of links per what not to link and instead linked to the DMOZ link directory as suggested by links to be considered. This is a much better solution as the directory already breaks out each state. Rwalker (talk) 13:09, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

No problems?[edit]

Have any reliable sources mentioned anything negative about high school football? Just asking. Redddogg (talk) 22:54, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

football season[edit]

I think there may be more variation in the lenghth of the season and the starting date between different parts of the country than the article would seem to indicate. Is there a cite for the claim that the regular-season is 10-weeks long in "most" states? I'm not necessarily saying that this is wrong, but IME quite a few states have regular-seasons that last only 8 or 9 weeks. Also in some states, particularly in the north, the season may start in late August and conclude before the beginning of November.Johnsonkurtis (talk) 00:51, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Utah football rules on defensive rushing[edit]

To my great surprise, I was told that in Utah high schools, a person at the scrimmage line attempting to rush and tackle the quarterback must count aloud "1-alligator, 2-all..,...,5 alligator" before crossing the line. 198.189.194.129 (talk) 20:16, 10 February 2012 (UTC)--I have reinserted this text, which was removed by someone who considered it dubious. I'm not saying it is true, but I can say it was true that I was told that from someone who believed it was true and that person had some credibility.Rich (talk) 22:03, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

I struck it as dubious—the claim is somewhere beyond outlandish. If they can present reliable sources to back the claim up, then I'm willing to discuss their claim that Utah strays from Federation rules. Otherwise, I don't think it belongs on the article talk page. —C.Fred (talk) 22:06, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
You don't think it belongs on the TALK page? Do you have a reliable source that specifically says such rules are nowhere a part of high school football? If not I think it would be outlandish to remove it from the talk page.--Rich Peterson216.86.177.36 (talk) 23:27, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
The claim is false. I went to the UHSAA website and checked their football policies.[1] It mentions the two state adoptions they've made under NFHSAA rules (overtime procedures and running clock rule) and procedural items they've implemented (playoffs, coaches exchanging game tapes, etc.). Nowhere does it mention that they have set aside Federation rules as the 198.* IP alleges. —C.Fred (talk) 00:42, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
I never alleged any such thing. I alleged that someone told me about rushing rules at Utah high schools. But I have just noticed I had originally, and just now, said "at Utah high schools". It would have been clearer if I had said "at certain Utah high schools", since I don't know if the person was claiming it was true at every, or even many high schools. In my opinion, with the prevalence of "1-missiissipi,..." counting in pickup games, it seems possible that some private high schools, somewhere, have chosen rules like that.--Rich Peterson198.189.194.129 (talk) 20:28, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Divisions?[edit]

I personally know nothing about divisions so perhaps it's not possible to include a section on "High School Divisions"? Are they broken down differently in each state or is it a national categorization. I know there are terms like Division 1 or Division A (heck, I don't know...can someone clarify?) Thisisfutile (talk) 17:14, 1 March 2014 (UTC)thisisfutile

There's too much variation from state to state to summarize it here. Generally, it's a scale where some multiple number of As is the classification for the largest schools and single A is for the smallest. (The largest in Georgia is AAAAAA; the largest in Indiana at last check is AAAAA.) There are a few states where A is the largest and C or D is the smallest. There's also different nomenclature for grouping of teams: Georgia has regions, North Carolina has conferences, and Indiana has both sections and conferences (sections apply to tournament play; conferences are for regular season and may include teams from multiple classifications). That's too much detail to try to get into here; it's better covered at the articles for the state associations. —C.Fred (talk) 03:14, 2 March 2014 (UTC)