|WikiProject Languages||(Rated C-class)|
|WikiProject Tambayan Philippines||(Rated B-class, Top-importance)|
Elaborating on my revert... I took a look at 22.214.171.124's source which I quote:
- The province of Aklan speaks Aklanon which, like Hiligaynon, developed from Kinaray-a.
- Though distinctly different from Hiligaynon, Kinaray-a and Aklanon are conveniently considered by many linguists and literary researchers as subsumed in the lingua franca. Current writers in Kinaray-a and Aklanon have shown that it is not so.
I am not sure where the idea came from that Hiligaynon comes from Kinaray-a. This is a misconception that is spread by Karay-a writers like Alex de los Santos. Taking a look at language trees, one will find that Hiligaynon is more closely related to other Central Visayan languages like Waray-Waray and Romblomanon. Kinaray-a and Aklanon, on the other hand, are of the West Visayan branch and are related to Onhan of Romblon province.
Furthermore, I object to the statement saying that linguists assume that Kinaray-a and Aklanon are from Hiligaynon. The several Philippine linguists I am acquainted with do not believe this idea. --Chris S. 00:59, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
I strongly believe this idea. I don't think Hiligaynon and Aklanon came from Kiniray-a. All three languages are mutually unintelligible, though on the same island. All three of them developed from another common ancestral language (proved by the fact that Aklanon is about 65-68% lexically similar to Hiligaynon). In my opinion as a native speaker of Hiligaynon, this language is more mutually inteligible to Cebuano than Aklanon or Cebuano (asymmetrically mutual inteligible which means that Hiligaynon people can understand Cebuano less and Cebuanos can understand Hiligaynon more [that's why it's "asymmetric"]). This is base on my research with a new Cebuana classmate I had last year who speaks only Cebuano and Tagalog. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 10:45, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
Does anyone know if there is a Hiligaynon or Ilonggo wikipedia in existence? (since it is the 4th largest native language which is spoken by 7 million people in the Philippines). --Jose77, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
- No, there isn't any. There are Wikis in Tagalog, Cebuano, Kapampangan, and Ilokano, though. Also, there is a stalled request for a Kinaray-a encyclopedia - there is a lack of native speakers. I'd love to see a Hiligaynon one, though. --Chris S. 21:11, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
- The Hiligaynon Test Wikipedia can now be found Here alongside the other Incubation Wikipedias. Writers and Articles are needed though.
- --Jose77 22:04, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- Please help translate and contribute to the Hiligaynon Wikipedia. by signing up at http://translatewiki.net Madamu gid nga Salamat! :) --Tagimata (talk) 16:37, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
The request for Hiligaynon Wikipedia has now been verified as eligible
This means that after these 1832 interface messages have been translated into Hiligaynon, then the Test-project will qualify for Final Approval. To translate those system messages, follow these steps. --Jose77 (talk) 22:38, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Hello, I do not speak Hiligaynon, so my edits should be thuroughly reviewed by others. I used http://www.omniglot.com/writing/hiligaynon.htm as my source for the alphabet.. Note that the pronounciation of sy is missing.. I couldnt quite read the IPA in the gif i used as a source. I hope someone can fix that.
I'm vague in places, because I really do not know.. I figure my contributions may have value as a starting point in spite of this.
My girlfriend writes "ma'yong aga". I notice other sources say "maayong aga". Is it even proper to refer to it as an apostrophe in this context?
~~ LordBrain 11:11, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
those two of your resources is correct. the root word is Ma-ayo means Good, the older hiligaynon use "ma-ayong aga" as Good Morning and the modern Hiligaynon use "mayong aga" because pronouncing "ma-ayong aga" make the speaker like singging modern hiligaynon use only mayong aga as Good Morning —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 19:19, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Are Hiligaynon and Ilonggo the same language?
Some sources say they are the same language, but others say there is a slight difference... It's interesting to note what is said on Negros Occidental. Perhaps Ilonggo is a dialect of Hiligaynon? One which is more spanish influenced? --LordBrain 12:45, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
- Despite knowing a dozen or so people from Bacolod, and asking a few filipino wikipedians, I can't find a definitive answer to this either. I think they are two dialects of the same language. My bacolod friends say they can't understand the Hiligaynon spoken in Ilo ilo because there are words used there that aren't used by Bacolod filipinos, but when someone from bacolod is talking with someone from Ilo ilo, they speak Ilonggo/Hiligaynon (rather than a lingua franca such as Tagalog or English). Gronky 10:10, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
- The thing is that Negros is not only inhabited by Ilonggo/Hiligaynon-speaking people but that it also is by Bisaya(also known as Cebuano, mostly located in southern part) and Hiniraya(kinaray-a, mostly residing in the mountainous area). Negros people of north sometimes find a hard time communicating with the southern-most. As to Iloilo people, their territory, which is about 1/3 part and one of districts of Panay, is not even quite occupied by their fellows; Hiniraya-speakers is more dominant even within their boundary. Including the fact that the three other districts have their unique and challenging-to-comprehend dialects that influence much. One may not quite relate it if one is not living in one of the islands--Negros and Panay. Each vocabulary is, i believed, progressing to their different extents. Ironically, Negros people recognizes deeply of their local vocabulary whereas Iloilo ones usually tend to rely on foreign loanwords. Likum (talk • contribs) 09:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
- Probably the reason why people from negros cant understand people from Iloilo is because of the influence from Kinaray-a spoken by a lot of people from Iloilo. From what I know through, Hiligaynon from Iloilo and from Negros are virtually identical, discounting possible influence from kinaray-a. Also regarding whether the language is properly called Ilonggo or Hiligaynon has not been concluded yet. My guess is that the difference between Ilonggo and Hiligaynon is like the difference between Espanol and Castellano (Spaniards prefer to call the language Castellano because there are other languages spoken in Spain while people in Latin America probably refer to the language as Espanol)Richarddr1234, August 25, 2008 —Preceding undated comment was added at 05:41, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
Hiligaynon and Ilonggo are synonymous with each other. However, that always wasn't so. Ilonggo used to refer specifically to the people and language of Iloilo, but the name has since broadened to mean Hiligaynon. Ilonggo still refers to an ethnic group, too, though. --Chris S. 16:41, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
- I just spoke to one friend from Bacolod about this. She says that Ilonggo is the name of what is spoken in Negros Occidental (including Bacolod), and in Iloilo city. She said that Hiligaynon is the name of what is spoken outside of Iloilo city. She said she can understand some Hiligaynon because her grandmother knew Hiligaynon, but most people in Bacolod can't understand Hiligaynon. She said that Hiligaynon is mostly spoken by older generations, it's more common now to learn Ilonggo because it's the language of Iloilo. She also said there are at least two other languages in that area, one called karay-a and she didn't know the other's name. I'll talk to more friends from Bacolod about this later or in the coming days. Gronky 18:07, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
- Speakers of the Hiligaynon/Ilonggo do not themselves know the difference between the two terms. From Teodoro Llamzon's book, one will read that Hiligaynon and Ilonggo are just two different terms for one language. Hiligaynon, however, is exclusively used to refer to the language, while Ilonggo also refers to the people. It should be noted, however, that there is one scholar, F. Landa Jocano, who forwards the idea that the term Hiligaynon also refers to a specific group of people. He used it as the title of his book "The Hiligaynons." Still, no one else has used the term to refer to the people of Iloilo and its neighbors. --emanlerona 15:39:09, 20 November 2006
- But this isn't what we're talking about here. Here we are only concerned with the languages, not any other meanings of the words "Ilonggo" or "Hiligaynon". Gronky 09:40, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
- So the issue is resolved then. Hiligaynon and Ilonggo (as names for [the] language) are one and the same.--emanlerona 08:52, 22 November 2006
- Unfortunately, the issue has not yet been resolved. The issue seems to not have a simple answer. Linguist experts disagree with first-hand answers from laypeople. The current state of the debate is on this page. Gronky 23:01, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
In linguistic literature, you will find that Hiligaynon also includes that of Iloilo city. Usually descriptions by lay persons will vary. In any case, I will quote a passage from Dr. R. David Zorc, a linguist who has been studying Philippine languages (especially those in the islands of Panay and Negros) for over forty years:
- Location: Hiligaynon is spoken in the Philippines throughout Negros Occidental (the western half of the island of Negros), the eastern and southern portions of Panay Island, and most of Guimaras Island, and by immigrants in large pockets on Mindanao (e.g., the Davao area) and Palawan (in and around Puerto Princesa).
- Dialects: Hiligaynon has many dialects. For example, the alternate language name Ilonggo originally referred only to the dialect of Iloilo City. Almost every town, especially those along language borders with CEBUANO, Kinaray-a and Aklanon, has some variation in lexicon and intonation. Those dialects which have notable differences include Capiznon (which is spoken in Capiz Province on central eastern Panay; it has several lexical idiosyncrasies) and Kawayan (which is spoken in the town of Cauayan, south of Bacolod City on Negros; it has a phonological idiosyncracy wherein an [l] between vowels is often replaced by a [y], e.g., Hil ulán, Kaw uyán ‘rain’).
In any case, Iloilo has always been a Hiligaynon-speaking place. Spanish textbooks from centuries ago include Iloilo. --Chris S. 22:09, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
I lived on Negros Occidental for a couple years and learned the language pretty well - it seems to me that any difference that could be seen between Hiligaynon and Ilonggo are actually the difference between Ilonggo/Hiligaynon and old deep Ilonggo/Hiligaynon. Anywhere outside a major town/city, the people in the bukid or in other rural places will have many different terms and language shortcuts that don't exist in the city. Speaking of Negros Occidental alone (never went to Panay) that seems to be the case, and that Hiligaynon is the dialect spoken by Ilonggos. That is what I perceived when I interacted with the natives. Law.bradford 21:37, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
- That is a very astute and correct observation. =) — • Kurt Guirnela • ‡ Feedback 03:18, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm not qualified to debate whether Illongo and Hiligaynon are different or the same, but it's rather embarrassing to the author(s) to say categorically in the first sentence that Hiligaynon is sometimes incorrectly called Illongo and then backtrack a few sentences later. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 22:14, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
The Tenants of ilo-ilo is called ilongga for woman and ilonggo for man and the language are Hiligaynon. And Kinaray-a The tenants of Negros (Occidental and Oriental) is called Negrense (General) and the language are Hiligaynon and Binisaya´. And Sometimes Negros hiligaynon cannot understand the ilo-ilo hiligaynon because Negros Hiligaynon Uses terms that Binisaya´ is use in the sentence and the ilo-ilo hiligaynon use also some terms that is use by Kinaray-a By:one of the negrense —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 17:45, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
You guys don't understand. "Ilonggo" originally meant someone from Iloilo. You see, this city used to be called "Ilong-Ilong" a long time ago and its people were called "Ilonggo". Later, it came to mean all the people speaking Hiligaynon. That's right, Ilonggo is the name of the people and Hiligaynon is the language. I'm a native of Iloilo and I never knew a language called "Hiligaynon . . . spoken outside Iloilo City, spoken mostly by older generations." I think the "Hiligaynon" you're referring to is the older form of today's "Ilonggo". It uses many archaic and original Hiligaynon words. I myself can't even understand this older form. It's like Old English to Modern English speakers. You see, the vocabulary has changed. Those original "Ilonggo" words have almost been now replaced by adopted foreign terms, especially Spanish, like for example "asta", which came from Spanish "hasta", which almost replaced the original Hiligaynon word "tubtub", all meaning "until". Now, "tubtub" is rarely used in speaking and is limited in literature. Yes, maybe the "Hiligaynon spoken by older generations outside Iloilo City" you people keep talking about is "Ilonggo" in its older form. Actually, the grammar has been preserved completely in the modern "Ilonggo". It's the vocabulary that has changed by switching from old deep local terms to some foreign terms, especially Spanish, and this makes the older form seemingly harder to understand. As a native of Iloilo City, I can tell you that Hiligaynon is not another Philippine language different from whay you call "Ilonggo", and that the Hiligaynon here and the Hiligaynon in Bacolod is completely mutually intelligible (I've been to Bacolod). I've lived in Iloilo City almost all my life and I've never heard one like that before.
And by the way, Kinaray-a hardly influenced Ilonggo speakers in Iloilo (that means the Hiligaynon in Iloilo and Bacolod are completely mutually intelligible, contrary to some statements above). It's the other way around, Hiligaynon influenced Kinaray-as very much. Maybe you've spoken to Karay-as speaking mixed Kinaray-a and Hiligaynon, with more Hiligaynon than Karay-a, and thought that they were Ilonggos, and that Hiligaynon in Iloilo has been influenced by Kinaray-a, which made you people come up why Bacolod people can't understand Ilonggos in Iloilo. I'm an Ilonggo in Iloilo City and I never even use Kinaray-a words at all. In fact, even though there are Karay-as in Iloilo and had contact with them, I couldn't even understand Kinaray-a at all! Except very few Karay-a words and a phrase: "wara takən kamaan", "uəd", "kamaan" "timo", and that's it! A karay-a once talked to me and I have no idea what she said. I just nodded and smiled. Even for an Ilonggo who learned Kinaray-a such as my Mother, they never use Karay-a words when speaking Hiligaynon. I have many pure Ilonggo classmates who can't understand Karay-a either, except a few words and phrases due to contact from Karay-as (take that from a classmate of mine who can't understand Kinaray-a until her Karay-a friend taught her). Actually, Ilonggos in Iloilo can understand Karay-as (though not completely) in the city because they don't speak pure Karay-a at all. They use 90% Hiligaynon and only 10% Karay-a when speaking (in fact, the Kiniray-a language is dying! because of the language shift to Hiligaynon) Karay-as can understand Hiligaynon because of mass media. "Kinaray-a speakers can understand Hiligaynon speakers. However, only Hiligaynon speakers who reside in Kinaray-a speaking areas can understand the language. Those who come from other areas, like Negros, have difficulty in understanding the language, if they can at all." - Kinaray-a Language article, Wikipedia. --18.104.22.168 (talk) 08:21, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
Karne and ina
Tagpila ina nga karne? "How much is this beef?"
I would just like to point out that 'karne' means 'meat' and 'ina' is 'that'.
- Fixed it as "karne sang baka". Just an interesting sidenote as well - both words are Spanish loanwords, from Spanish "Carne" ('meat') and "Vaca" ('cow', pronounced exactly the same as the filipino word - 'baka'). Changed "inâ" ('that', referring to something at a distance), with "ini" ('this', referring to something held or close by).--Obsidi♠nSoul 02:04, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
karne mean meat, ina mean that, ini mean this.
if i say "karne sang baka"----> meat of cow ( or beef ) if i say "karne sang baboy"---> meat of pig ( or pork ) tag pila ina ang karne sang baka---->how much is that meat of cow if you are holding the meat you can say "tag pila ini?"---> how much is this? you don't need to to tell what you are holding but if you insist you can say "tag pila ini?, ining karne sang baka?"--->how much is this?, this meat of cow?. we also use "ining" for "this" if it is in the middle. ining is the augmented words from "ini nga"---> "this is" because hiligaynon language do not have spicific words for pork and beef it is still longer words to spicify those words —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 17:39, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
- "ining" is just a contraction of "ini nga", same as how the bisaya "kani nga" is usually just "kaning". Easier to say, but they're technically the same. "ini" also doesn't exclusively mean something held, it could be something close by being pointed out. For the sake of a more accurate translation, the subject has to be mentioned. Maybe the example sentence itself needs to be changed--Obsidi♠nSoul 23:04, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
rootword for hiligaynon?
hiniraya has its ilaya or iraya meaning mountain, in short, language of people living in mountain area. Bisaya means local or native. Tagalog from a term taga-ilog whose 'i' is contracted. Waray from 'walay' an old version of wala which means nothing(notably fr. their expression 'waray gəd!' ...have none). Bukidnon, from its geographical features which is mountainous or mabukidon(visayan term) or whose another alternate inflection is bukidanon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Likum (talk • contribs) 10:21, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
hiligaynon words for ilaya? ilaya is a direction use by hiligaynon language before spanish time because hiligaynon do not know the N,S,E,W, the only references are the sea and the sun. ilaya come from Kinaray-a words Iraya means heading to the mountains or off shore. terms in hiligaynon: ilaya--->offshore ilawod--->into the sea Tabuk----> Across like examples if i say "didto nayon sa ilaya" i am pointing at the upper ground or we can say that i am pointing at the center of the island and if i say "didto nayon sa ilawod" and i am pointing at the sea —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 19:03, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
in hiligaynon terms the word "tomanduk" meaning native or local and the bisaya is use to call to the person who talking Binisaya —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 07:02, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Ilonggo vs Hiligaynon
I grew up in Northern Iloilo and can claim to be more Hiligaynon than some of my contemporaries. My place is nearer to Bacolod than Iloilo City. I am basing my opinion on my experiences and personal observations and not on research. Hiligaynon is more formal way of speaking and writing and Ilonggo is more like conversational (colloquial). In fact I haven't met anybody who speaks pure Hiligaynon. If anybody can claim otherwise, let him/her talk to me and I will point out which word is not Hiligaynon. Ilonggo on the other hand has a lot of Spanish words introduced into it and has lots of variations. I think there are more variation of Karay-a than Ilonggo. In my perspective, people of Oton speaks Karay-a and not Ilonggo. Some may dispute this but my experience is there are a lot of words that I can't understand anymore if I go 4 kilometers from the city. Ilonggo of "lie down" is higda but they call it "batang". They also tend to have more letter "R" than "L". They say "uran" instead of "ulan" for rain. As you go further inland the variation of Karay-a goes even deeper, for example Janiuay. These are pure Karay-a speakers. Then on the southwestern coastline you have the towns of Miag-ao and San Joaquin until you hit the province of Antique that is unbearably, pure Karay-a.
I consider Hiligaynon as the unadulterated form of speaking and writing native to Iloilo and Western Negros. Table in Ilonggo is "lamesa" (Spanish) and chair is "siya" or "polongkuan". The Hiligaynon equivalent is "latok" and "lingkuran". To sit in Hiligaynon is "lingkud" and in Ilonggo is "pungko". Ilonggo of door is "puerta" while Hiligaynon is "ganhaan". I haven't met anybody yet who called table as "latok". To go to school is "eskwela" and school is "eskwelahan" in Ilonggo. In Hiligaynon, it is "butho" and "buluthuan", respectively. One of the most prolific Hiligaynon writers was the former Iloilo Governor Conrado J. Norada.
In my observation, Ilonggo is spoken only in the city of Iloilo, northern Iloilo and Capiz. The rest of Iloilo speaks Karay-a including the province of Antique. Aklan speaks Aklanon. In the island of Negros it is spoken in Bacolod and vicinity, to Manapla. When you reach Cadiz city, Ilonggo is mixed with a tint of Cebuano. In Escalante, the Cebuano is more prominent until you reach San Carlos which is pure Cebuano. Lbucane (talk) 00:10, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
- I grew up in an area with a lot of migrants from the Visayas region, and I can attest that Kinaray-a is different from Ilonggo in the sense that Ilonggo is still somewhat intelligible to Cebuano-speakers while Kinaray-a is not. And yep, noticed the 'r' preference as well. That said, Kinaray-a language has a separate article. I have also never heard my friends distinguish between Ilonggo and Hiligaynon, and as far as I can tell, they prefer to call the language 'Ilonggo' (but then again, they were second-generation migrants into a predominantly Cebuano-speaking region).
- But yeah, unless we can find a scholarly source discussing the distinction between the two, we can't add it, as it would be WP:Original research and not acceptable per WP:Verifiability.-- Obsidi♠nSoul 00:24, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
Merging of Bacolodnon dialect
Bacolodnon dialect should be merge. The reason that I thought is only it matters with the accent of speaking. That is depend on the regional descent. Perhaps Bacolodnon dialect claims to be modern. Which in fact influence by the modernization. But I think not official or have its claim. Bonvallite (talk) 02:42, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
- I think it should be merged; if it's just a dialect of this language, it doesn't need a separate page and would be better handled here. --KarlB (talk) 21:53, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
- My apologies. I support the proposal of merging the Bacolodnon dialect to Hiligaynon.
|Text from Bacolodnon dialect was copied or moved into Hiligaynon language with [Selective merging this edit]. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted so long as the latter page exists. The former page's talk page can be accessed at Talk:Bacolodnon dialect.|
I'm not a speaker, nor a philologist. But I am a trained proofreader. Seems like a mistake to me, in the second line of the infobox:language, when the language name is given as Hiniligaynon