Talk:History of Limerick
|History of Limerick is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.|
|This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on April 4, 2006.|
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|WikiProject European history||(Rated C-class, Low-importance)|
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Old Chaim Herzog question
The text says: "Many resettled in Cork City, the home of Chaim Herzog, later the sixth president of Israel." Are we sure that Herzog was in Cork?--ClemMcGann 13:44, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I find the article too full of uncritical praise for the subject under discussion. It reads like a tourist brochure. Why are there no references to the Limerick Pogrom of 1904 or to the socio-economic situation in the city? Really disappointed to see something this superficial make it to a featured article. --Damac 07:33, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
- Apologies regarding the Pogrom - I noticed that this section was deleted by a racist vandal. --Damac 07:38, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
"St. Joseph's Psychiatric Hospital was completed in the south-side by 1826." One can be fairly sure that it wasn't called that in 1826. St. Joseph's Asylum? Madhouse? Suggest sentence be changed to "St. Joseph' (original name), now St. Joseph's Psychiatric Hospital was completed... " etc.
It was deleted by a realist, not a racist. Of course only a far leftist subscriber to victim culture such as "damac" would write such a thing. Jews are a race? It's a religion, hence no racism.
There was no such thing as the Limerick Pogrom, just another hysterical fabrication. -- Claire Fellows
Was not this 'Pogrom' something to do with the Jewish street traders being accused of not paying their rightful share of taxes and rates etc on their profits, and thereby putting legit (tax paying and rate paying) businesses out of business? 184.108.40.206 18:30, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
- I can't find anything to corroborate that, though admittedly i can find nothing specifically against it either. Most of what i can find suggests it was down mostly to Father Creagh and his French theological training. Personally, i think the support from the protestant community at least suggests that this was not down to the Jews not paying taxes. I do find mention of Creagh's statements to the effect that the Jews were charging exploitative prices, though. I'm not saying you're wrong; i have little knowledge in this area, but wikipedia policy states that verification is more important than truthfulnes. -- Lordandmaker 19:55, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
This user is right, there was a clear reasoning as to these events happening. Clearly there are always two sides to every story, and to just state that the people of Limerick were incredibly intolerant for no reason, especially after what these people went through during the forced famine, is disingenous. There really was never a pogrom, just a specific group of people that claim they are maligned everywhere around the world whenever something doesn't go their own way.
It is disgraceful that Wikipedia allows this portion of the article when it's clearly POV and is fairly irrelevant to the history of Limerick. Claire Fellows
- Wikipedia is based on Verifiability, not the plain honest truth. This is on the basis that if something is true, chances are it can be verified, so you miss out on little of the truth. This policy exists to prevent two users who both 'know' about something, but disagree, from getting bogged down in flame wars.
- To me, with no previous knowledge of the subject, i come away from my first read of the article with a feeling that they were started by an extremist preacher, and involved a sizeable proportion, but not all, of the local population.
- If you can find some verifiable evidence to the contrary, then there is a good call for the article to be changed to reflect this. If you can find more accurate verifiable evidence, this too should be included. But, so far as i can tell, this article would be more POV if it was edited to blame the Jews, given that i can't find anything else to suggest this was the case.
- I don't quite see how something that happened in the history of Limerick can be irrelevant to the history of Limerick. though.-- Lordandmaker 20:38, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
The fact that it's such a non-issue to the people of Limerick and their history suggests it's irrelevant. Whenever any article appears the same people that buy into vicim culture appear to write thinly veiled anti-western, anti-Catholic screeds such as this. The "pogrom" in question was of such minor importance as to not require any entry whatsoever.
Simply google, "Limerick Pogrom", and the sources there are not credible. Anti-Fascist action is hardly what you'd call a credible source, and this entry was probably written by a member of a group of people who seem to be professional victims. A disgraceful POV attachment to an otherwise fine article. People are tired of this continual whinging from this aforementioned group. It's not based in reality, and they clearly are not free of sin. Claire Fellows
- Writing as a Jew living in Ireland, I really do believe that this episode is getting unwarrented attention, and the word pogrom should not be used at all. Were not the Irish victims of the famine very badly treated in New York, yet we don't see it mentioned on the NY page. Move on please! 220.127.116.11 11:50, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
- I'm intrigued at the photo of the gravestone of an "Unknown Jewish soul". Surely that should have been "body", as souls should be immortal?18.104.22.168 (talk) 08:15, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
Since this is a main page featured article, why isn't it temporarily edit blocked? It's a soft target for vandalism.
Not much here on the famine, at all. I understand there is a bigger article elsewhere, but this one talks more about economic developments than about the effects of the famine on Limerick. I will look over the history, but it feels like something was cut or moved. Otherwise, the entry is pretty smooth and an interesting read. Thepearl 14:35, 4 April 2006 (UTC)thepearl
Grammatical error in 'struggle for independence'
The sentence 'Royal Irish Constabulary carried out violent raids on the homes of suspected Sinn Féin sympathisers.' isn't really a full one. I'd suggest 'The Royal Irish....' or 'Members of the Royal Irish...', but i don't know enough about the situation to judge which is better (the former implies it was institutional, the latter could imply renegades). Though neither of those additions make it particularly readable. -- Lordandmaker 18:07, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
The Treaty of Limerick
It is sometimes forgotten, that with Sarsfield and the other "Wild Geese" gone,and with the Treaty of Limerick broken, one of Western Europe's most savage bodies of legislation (with the possible exception of laws designed to persecute the Jews)--collectively known as "The Penal Laws," was introduced, designed to reduce the Catholic Irish to a stte of abject misery. Any reputable historian of 18th century Ireland can be consulted and the worst horrors of that legislation examined! The repeal of the last of the Penal lawswas only completed in 1829, when the Catholic, Kerry barrister, Daniel O'Connell took his seat in the House of Commons (Catholic Liberation).
(As can be seen from from the page on Ireland and the Jews, O'Connell also supported legislation, designed to remove discrimination against the Jews.)
Finally, please note that I have sent an email(November 2,2005) to the BBC, re their page on the Williamite Wars, and in particular, the final line, "...--a century of peace ensued in Ireland." To date, I have received a letter (email) of acknowledgement; but no change has occurred on the BBC site (http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/timelines/ni/aughrim.shtm).--PeadarMaguidhir 10:52, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
There is not one mention of the nickname Stab City or the crime issues which Limerick has/ had a very bad reputation for. If this is to be an honest, non-POV article, there should be mention of this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 23:01, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
Rename the Limerick Pogrom section the "Limerick Boycott"?
Without wanting to diminish the significance of a dark chapter in Irish History it must be noted that there appears to be some facts excluded from the article which would certainly warrant a revision of the description "pogrom". Creagh indeed sought a Pogrom but what ensued was actually a boycott that did not drastically reduce the numbers of the Jews living in Limerick.
According to RIC reports only 8 of the city’s 32 Jewish families had left by March 1905 & just 5 of these ‘directly owing to the agitation’. The 1911 census records that, not only were 13 of the remaining 26 families still resident in Limerick six years later but that 9 new Jewish families had joined them. The Jewish population numbered 122 persons in 1911 as opposed to 171 in 1901. This had declined to just 30 by 1926.
It's also interesting to note that one of the Jewish lenders who was operating in the city (P.Toohey)in 1904 is still doing so 8 years after the Fr. John Creagh boycott. If you look at the front page of nearly every Limerick Leader in 1912/1913 you will see his advert.
P.S.: for those arguing otherwise, Creagh's language towards the Jews was rabidly Anti-Semitic. He attacked them on religious grounds, denouncing them as Christ-killers, ritual murderers & ‘the greatest haters of everything Christian’.
- I have renamed the article per that article's talk page. Please feel free to comment further at Talk:Limerick Boycott