Talk:History of rowing sports

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Former good article nominee History of rowing sports was a Sports and recreation good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
January 26, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed
WikiProject Rowing (Rated Start-class)
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GA nomination[edit]

Hey, unfortunately I do not believe this article meets the good article criteria. I have failed it rather then put on hold, as I believe the issues are not minor enough to justify simply putting on hold. I'm not going to list every minor problem I found, just the major ones. Here are my reasons:

Criteria 1, well written:
  • The prose wasn't too bad, there were a few mistakes here and there. I only found a couple of sentences hard to read.
  • The structure could be improved I believe; more specifically:
  • The lead needs to be re-written, it's far to short, please see WP:LEAD.
  • The headings are a bit strange, maybe have one for history, then men's rowing, then women's. You could probably separate the article into more sections then it currently has.
  • You may want to look at the Manual of Style, for example "intercollegiate" should probably be wiki-linked, it's not a term people use everywhere (like where I'm from for example), as well, things like "2 years" should be "two years". etc etc
Criteria 2, factually accurate and verifiable.
  • I think the article is short on references, especially inline citations. I know you have external links, but it's prob better to make these inline citations instead (inline citations aren't mandatory, but are "highly desirable".)
  • Your referencing style is inconsistent (see WP:CITET), you have comments in brackets ("ref, The Brilliants p14"), some as external links ""Well-known rowers of recent years..." and inline citations (which are the most desirable).
Criteria 3, it's broad in it's coverage:
  • Unfortunately I am not an expert in rowing, so please tell me if I'm way off the mark here. When I first looked at the article I was expecting a lot of history about rowing before it became a sport? No doubt it came from somewhere, this is briefly touched on in the article, but it goes from Egyptian funerals in 1430BC, to 13th century Venetian festivals to "modern" rowing in about four sentences. From what I'd expect, for an article about the history of rowing, it doesn't talk about 3500years worth of history very much. This part of the criteria is the one that I'm least sure of, I do think that the article needs to include more information on 20th century, and pre 19th century rowing much more though. This article would prob be a good starting point for an article History of rowing from 1835 to 1900 or something.
Criteria 4, neutral point of view:
  • No problems here
Criteria 5, stable:
  • very young article, but seems so.
Criteria 6, images:
  • I would not fail it due to this, the image is has is good, and definitely adds to the article. However, another image would be nice (like I said, I wouldn't fail it over this).

Ok, done. In summary, the lead and the coverage of the article need work. If you have any questions don't hesitate to contact me on my talk page. - Shudda talk 05:22, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree that there's a HUGE gap between the first references to rowing and its emergence in its modern form as a sport. What about the triremes of Greece and mentions in Homer, for example? The vikings rowed as well as sailed, I believe (or at least they do in Haggar the Horrible!). What about Norman longships? Is there any evidence of rowing emerging outside Europe? I can't think of any, but I'm eurocentric.TrulyBlue 09:34, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Rewrite[edit]

I have read through the GA reviewer's criticisms and I think this article needs a sunstantial rewrite to get it up to standard. For me the worst part is the fact that it is divided into two broad categories: men's and women's. To me these are almost irrelevant categories. I would suggest categories something like this:

  • Rowing in industry and war (Divide into categories: Ancient, Before 1800 and Modern day)
  • Competitive rowing (Eton, Oxford, Cambridge, + US equivalents)
  • Amateur Competition (emphasise divide between amateurs and professionals. Perhaps give Professional Single Sculling its own category?)
  • Evolution of style (English Orthodox, sliding seat, Ned Hanlan, Steve Fairbairn, Stan Pocock, Karl Adam)
  • Evolution of equipment (elimination of keel, outrigging, gate, clinker vs skinned, timber vs composite, cleaver blade)

What do editors think? I'm happy to get on with it as soon as I get some time.--Yeti Hunter 00:05, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Good effort! I think you are right that the split between men's rowing and women's rowing is wrong. However, the growth of women's rowing probably does need its own sub-section.
Here's a revised suggested structure:
  • Rowing in commerce, industry and warfare
    • Ancient
    • Before 1800
    • Modern day
  • Competitive rowing
    • Origins (Eton, Oxford, Cambridge, + US equivalents)
    • Growth in popularity
    • Amateurism and professionalism
      • Professional match racing
      • Amateurism in England elsewhere (restrictive ARA/Henley definition of amateur; ARA/NARA split)
      • Amateurism elsewhere
      • The end of the amateur/professional divide (FISA removal of all references to amateurism in 1998)
    • Growth of international competition
    • Growth of women's rowing
    • Evolution of style (English Orthodox, sliding seat, Ned Hanlan, Steve Fairbairn, Stan Pocock, Karl Adam)
    • Evolution of equipment (elimination of keel, outrigging, gate, clinker vs skinned, timber vs composite, cleaver blade)

James of Putney 11:48, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

I have started an article skeleton at User:Yeti Hunter/Sandbox. Also, try this site for some good info: http://www.rowinghistory.net/ --Yeti Hunter 23:17, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Oldest (continuous) club[edit]

(quote section History of rowing#Men's)

In 1838, six men formed the Narragansett Boat Club in Providence and today Narragansett Boat Club is the oldest rowing club, and the oldest athletic club in America. In 1843, the first American college rowing club was formed at Yale University. The Harvard-Yale Regatta is the oldest intercollegiate sporting event in the United States having been contested every year since 1852 (except for occasional breaks due to major wars, such as World War II and the US Civil War). The oldest inter-high school competition in the United States also occurred on the water, in the form of a race in six man boats between two New England boarding schools: Phillips Exeter Academy in Exeter, New Hampshire, and Phillips Academy Andover in Andover, Massachusetts. The oldest continuous rowing club in America is the Detroit Boat Club, in Detroit, Michigan.

Continuity is a serious qualification of oldestness! The Narragansett Boat Club History of NBC does not make any claim to be oldest boat club (or athletic club), presumably for this reason. Beside rewording this should be rearranged to put the Detroit Boat Club in chron sequence at 1839. --P64 (talk) 21:30, 10 May 2013 (UTC)