Talk:Hot dog

Choking Risk Bias

I find this section bias - User: Noahk11 —Preceding undated comment added 18:47, 3 November 2011 (UTC).

• In what way? -67.177.224.121 (talk) 02:25, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
  • I feel it could be restated, it sounds like an opinion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Noahk11 (talk • contribs) 02:27, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Few Issues

I'll make this short and sweet. The article mentions 7-11 (The convenience store) selling over 100 million hot dogs, but the article it links to says Hot Dogs and Sausages, which ALSO includes their pizza rolls, taquitos or whatever else they cook on the hot dog cooker.

Second issue is the end of article "Also read" section: Advanced meat recovery Hot dog variations Mechanically separated meat Sausage bun Sausage sandwich by-products

Come on, those options are totally biased because most hot dogs aren't even made like they used to be. I know a decade ago hot dogs had the filth but now and days it's usually 100% beef that doesn't include the testicles... I can understand maybe 1 or 2 links about hot dogs by products, but 3! Let's balance the scale a little, huh? Especially when By product, Meat separation, and meat recovery are all talking generally about the same thing: getting the MOST and I do mean MOST out of a single animal. Condense sir. Fadedroots (talk) 04:26, 16 May 2010 (UTC) ENGLISH IS ENGLISH! SPELL THINGS LIKE COLOUR IN THE CORRECT WAY FORM NOW ON!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.42.157.96 (talk) 16:21, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Moist Sausage

'Moist sausage' is an inappropriate way to describe a hot dog. It makes me want to vomit, not eat hot dogs. Also I am afraid that the bun is integral to the hot dog item otherwise you just have a single Frankfurt sausage flopping around. A hot dog is not 'often placed' in a bun, a hot dog unit in fact comprises a sausage in a bun. This is not my opinion, this is fact.

Unless someone would like to argue this, I will change these wordings on the 20th of December.

- Hot dogs can also be eaten off a bun. Many people enjoy slices of hot dogs dipped in ketchup and eaten with a fork or mixed with baked beans and served as a single dish (beans and franks.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.238.203.169 (talk) 04:08, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Grammar

"More blander needs to be changed to "more bland"

Wrong. Monosyllabic adjectives are typically made into comparatives by adding -er. Thus, "blander".

If you're gonna make it "blander", you need to get rid of the "more". unless (talk) 15:59, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Advertisement for Nathan's

Just wondering - why does a certain manufacturer of sausages and similar stuff have to be mentioned who doesn't have anything to do with the invention / original production of the franks or wieners, but seems to simply sell them a lot nowadays, though certainly not without the competition, whereas his competitors are not mentioned at all?

re: advertisement

it is widely believed that the success of Feltman's and Nathan's (opened led to the popularity of hot dogs in America, at least on the east coast, with Vienna Sausage in Chicago being introduced at the world's fair in 1893. In many parts of the country hot dogs were / are known as Coneys.

There is simply more information available about Nathan's than its competitors because they are no longer around. The old idea that "whoever wins the wars writes the history books" applies to hot dogs as well.

http://history.amusement-parks.com/nathans.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.117.3.106 (talk) 00:54, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

never heard of nathans, are they still around? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.176.160.47 (talk) 05:04, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Errr... Yes they are? How can you live in the US and not know about Nathan's, btw? Sure they're not as big as they used to be, but it's like having never heard of IBM. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie Say Shalom! 07:50, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

I've been living in California for 6 years and I've never heard of Nathan's. I also think 38 talk pages about hot dogs is a bit silly and makes Wikipedia look ridiculous. -- Dandv (talk) 22:13, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

You have been living in the wrong part then. =p Here you go. Lol, ya I saw that page it was p funny. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 22:47, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Contents

I think some mention should be made of the widely-repeated idea that hotdogs are made of mysterious and/or disgusting things, likely dating back to the days when factories and their products were largely unregulated, and anything made of ground meat could be just about anything... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.70.113 (talk) 01:15, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Someone less lazy than me, get a-writin'! Bartholomewklick (talk) 21:24, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

re- above: this is mostly an urban legend, at least today. hot dogs contain no more or less "disgusting things" than any other food product made of ground or processed meat. Many hot dog manufacturers today use high quality meat, probably better ingredients than most fast food franchises. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.117.3.106 (talk) 00:58, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

I think some mention should be made of the fact that frankfurters are properly an emulsion of fat and meat. This is one of the key distinctions between a hot dog/frankfurter and other sausages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.234.153.96 (talk) 01:34, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

See Bruce Aidells' Complete Sausage Book, page 66. It states "the hot dog is an emulsified sausage". Jdskeilson (talk) 18:02, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Another pronounciation of hot dog is weinie —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.50.166.90 (talk) 23:53, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

As I mentioned previously (and edited accordingly) authorities on the hot dog state that the contents are an emulsion. Why was this reverted? Why is an uncited, inaccurate description being used instead of an expert's published material?Jdskeilson (talk) 17:22, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Is a hot dog considered a sandwich? What differentiates it from a sausage sandwich enough that a hot dog isn't considered a sandwich? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.19.117.43 (talk) 21:57, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

its a urban legend that hot dogs are made from intestines? or that they are dyed pink? 67.176.160.47 (talk) 05:14, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

The article does mention the intestine casing, but it probably should do this at an earlier point. Food coloring isn't illegal or unusual, so it wouldn't necessarily be notable to mention it. Regards, Piano non troppo (talk) 10:09, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Halal

It mentions Kosher hot dogs in the paragraph as being from meats other than Pork, but the globally much more common Halal versions are not mentioned/discussed, as there are by far more Muslims - including in the West. That intro section is locked, so I wasn't able to edit. Pink Princess (talk) 03:13, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Editor Scythian1 made the change, adding Halal to intro para. Seems ok. Presuming, of course, that there really are a substantial number of Muslims who would recognize the term "hot dog" for something they themselves eat? It doesn't ring out as being a particularly Muslim food -- by this name, at least. Piano non troppo (talk) 05:10, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if hot dogs aren't "particularly Muslim". What matters is the fact that some hot dogs are made to be suitable for consumption by Muslims. It doesn't ring out as a "particularly Jewish" food either, but you can't deny that there are kosher 'dogs out there. 121.72.192.11 (talk) 09:36, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

The idea is to emphasize what about a topic is central. When I think Tabbouleh, I think "Arab". When I make it, I rely on Arab sources. Equally, but oppositely, when making sushi, my first thought isn't to look at Australian aborigine recipes. There are Arab markets in my area, and I occasionally shop in them. I don't remember seeing hot dogs, but I'll have another look. Regards, Piano non troppo (talk) 23:51, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Look up "Chili House". It's a burger and hot dog chain which was founded in Amman, Jordan and has spread throughout the Middle East. When I was in Amman a few years back, this place was a Big Deal, starting to rival shawarma joints for quick, cheap food. Hell, they even call their dogs Coneys. That it's not a big thing here in the states doesn't mean it's not a VERY big deal elsewhere. unless (talk) 15:59, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

misspelling

The article spells "taking" "talking" in the history section (search for white gloves). I'd correct, but I'm not established, etc.

Fixed. VMS Mosaic (talk) 00:55, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

History Section

We need to admit that there is a fundamental difference between a 'sausage on a bun' and a hot dog. The historical development of the hot dog that we know today (made out of "meat slurry" and such) needs to be addressed. Csdavis1 (talk) 03:27, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

One problem is that the term is massively "fuzzy". It a critical feature of a "hot dog" that it has meat, or that it looks like this brown-red cylindrical thing that comes neatly packaged in two rows? Is a weiner without a bun a "hot dog"? (If someone offered me a "hot dog" I'd expect to see the bun.) Add to this the element of national pride which seeks to distort meaning so that some country has a more prominent role. Add to this commercial posturing about which is the "original", and by implication "best". Add to this regional differences ... and the composite is one big mess.

The guy who discovered penicillin, the guy who invented the telescope ... they changed the history of the world. The guy who created a distinct "hot dog"? The next idiot down the road might have created the same thing with a sesame bun. Would that have had a profound implication on human history? I'd say ... it would have practically none. So I have a certain question whether the topic of origin needs as much article material as it does now. Regards, Piano non troppo (talk) 09:27, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough. And given that MANY people claim "invention" of the hot dog, note that it's not so much a sausage, as that has been called "dog" a long time. Maybe someone said give me a hot "dog" and it just kind of went into place. I wrote a lot of that section so long ago. I also put in the "MYTH" of Tad, felt it was appropriate, as is an extremely popular myth for the term "hot dog". I posted the Yale Record, think it's better. But, interesting in each that they put it in quotes "hot dogs". So maybe they ate hot sausages. Either way, the quotes are around "Hot dogs". Maybe, of course, they are writing to their readers. 24.254.192.177 (talk) 09:51, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Hot dog shape controversy

Even if this topic doesn't ultimately end up in the article, it'll likely be discussed here. The American Academy of Pediatrics wants the hot dog to be redesigned so that it's less of a choking hazard. The policy statement from Pediatrics article is here (DOI: 10.1542/peds.2009-2862, dated today, the 22nd) and a USA Today article from today is here (by Liz Szabo). Mapsax (talk) 00:19, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

There's no reason it should not be in the article. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/ns/nightly_news#35529712 20% of all choking related ER visits. Astounding.

I added the information. Piano non troppo (talk) 10:09, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Sandwich

Can we please remove the word "sandwich" from under the first picture? A hot dog is not a sandwich unless it is between two pieces of bread. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Harrypotthead (talk • contribs) 02:18, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Which, unless you're this guy, describes a bun... HalfShadow 02:20, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

A bun is not two pieces of bread, but rather one piece of bread with a slit in the middle for the hot dog to fit in. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Harrypotthead (talk • contribs) 02:22, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

I understand your confusion if you are not resident in North America. However in North America a bun, especially when surrounding a hamburger patty, is frequently referred to as a 'sandwich'. DJ Clayworth (talk) 22:06, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to jump in here and mention that, as a lifelong resident of North America's west coast, I have never heard of anything put into a bun referred to as a "sandwich". If you offered me a "hot dog sandwich" or a "hamburger sandwich", I would assume you meant you were going to stick the respective meats between slices of Wonderbread or something, and frankly I'd tell you to go screw, because that just sounds gross. I'm guessing that this whole "sandwich" thing is something that happens in some subset of the U.S., and perhaps Canada. unless (talk) 15:59, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Now wait a minute lol, don't go blaming this "hot dog sandwich" thing on Canada, too, lol. In Canada, you'd be offered a hot dog OR a sandwich. And if you were a caterer up here, and a customer ordered a plate of sandwiches for an office meeting, and you sent a platter of hot dogs, I think there'd be a sudden panicked phone call from the poor soul that was in charge of the food for that meeting. Randal Oulton (talk) 08:54, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I will have to concur with user "DJ Clayworth" and disagree with user "Unless you". As a North American, I frequently hear a hot dog on a bun referred to as a "hot dog sandwich". And this is not confined to North America, as I took this picture in Amsterdam in 2009, and, yes, the product was indeed a hot dog on a bun, so this terminology spans at least two continents. This terminology is akin to the common nomenclature of a "submarine sandwich", a "falafel sandwich", a "hummus sandwich", and a "sausage sandwich"--all of which are served on buns or one piece of bread. Further, the above comment by "Unless you" stating that items served on buns are not referred to as sandwiches is erroneous. Every major North American fast food restaurant that serves a "chicken sandwich" serves these sandwiches on a bun, often of the hamburger bun variety. Pulled pork sandwiches are served on buns. Even turkey served on a bun (a common practice in public school cafeterias) will still be referred to as a turkey sandwich. For purposes of clarity, the term "hot dog sandwich" should be added back to the caption of the picture, so as not to give preference to one dialect or another. Iamonlyamachine (talk) 16:38, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm a North American and in the last 50 years have never once seen/heard the term "hot dog sandwich". To me, it's a completely nonsensical term. If there was such a thing, it would consist of several hot dogs cut in half or into three or more pieces length wise and placed flat between two pieces of bread. I also have never heard the term "hamburger sandwich", even though it's true that a hamburger is a type of sandwich. VMS Mosaic (talk) 02:51, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Google seems to indicate that "Hot dog sandwich" is a much less used term, and also an image search for that term shows a number of examples are, as suggested by some above, the hot dog cut up or other wise served between two pieces of sandwich bread or toast. I also don't see that it's necessarily a question of dialect, rather than just being a much less used terms within the same dialects. On the other hand the article is very US-centric, a small section on hotdogs outside of the US even somewhat reinforces this, while its American origin, American association, and place in American culture, is very important of course, it is now a common food throughout the western world and beyond, while the Dutch example is interesting it's not as relevant since English isn't an official language, but more prominence could be given to the term 'American Hotdog' for example. Maybe in the lead 'A hot dog or an American hotdog' for example, the article on Muffin (English) has a similar note at the beginning noting the US variant English Muffin, though actually we call them that in New Zealand too, and Australia as well, and we call proper muffins muffins, hm, and I see that article states it's an American name, though at least it notes it is used outside of the US in the lead section I guess.Number36 (talk) 22:10, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

I came up with an early (early being relative in the course of the universe, of course) quote about a Hot Dog sandwich:

PITTSBURG WOMEN TO SERVE PENNY LUNCHES: The Pittsburg Council of Jewish Women has started a penny luncheon scheme for school children in that city. The plan will be worked at a school in the poorest part of Pittsburg. For 1 cent a child can have a warm meat sandwich or a Wienerwurst sandwich made of a bun. In addition there will be mashed and baked potatoes. More elaborate meals will be served for from 2 to 4 cents. " -- The Post-Standard. Syracuse, New York. 7 January 1911. Page 19.

Randal Oulton (talk) 23:51, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Ketchup?

The author of this article doesn't realise ketchup isn't acceptable for hot dogs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Teezeher (talk • contribs) 02:01, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

I would think it is the norm. Ketchip and maybe onions or mustard. 86.151.166.7 (talk) 21:57, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Think again after you watch this. --Born2cycle (talk) 00:40, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Zillions of people put ketchup on hotdogs. Ask any kid. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:45, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

I put ketchup on hotdogs, my dad does, my sister does, my girlfriend does, etc. I know some people say use only mustard when you are older (History Channel at least), but to say it's not acceptable with a hotdog is just plain strange. There is a reason they have ketchup bottles at hotdog stands. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie Say Shalom! 07:55, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Don't feel bad, SWMFP, everyone's family is weird in one way or another. Kidding aside, I continue to believe this cultural phenomena (of a vocal minority that adamantly oppose the use of ketchup on a hot dog) should be noted on the wikipedia article (it used to be, in a subsection, after which it was moved to a separate article, after which it was deleted). For example, I know of only two books ABOUT hot dogs (as opposed to recipe books), and one of them is called Never Put Ketchup on a Hot dog (http://www.amazon.com/Never-Put-Ketchup-Hot-Dog/dp/0979789230). And anything Dirty Harry says with such righteousness deserves at least a sentence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5JIpT4GkyM) Some more evidence of this phenomena below:

Mike Royko (Pulitzer winning journalist) -- "No, I won't condemn anyone for putting ketchup on a hot dog. This is the land of the free. And if someone wants to put ketchup on a hot dog and actually eat the awful thing, that is their right. It is also their right to put mayo or chocolate syrup or toenail clippings or cat hair on a hot dog. Sure, it would be disgusting and perverted, and they would be shaming themselves and their loved ones. But under our system of government, it is their right to be barbarians." (http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/730735.html)

Cecil Adams of the syndicated newspaper column Straight Dope --- "Ketchup is destructive of all that is right and just about a properly hot dog. [...] If you go into an authentic hot dog joint and ask for ketchup on your hot dog, the counterman will pause and look you in the eye. He may or may not say, "Ketchup?" with a tone of disbelief. But you may be certain what he's thinking: "Behold this creature that walks like a man. It wants ketchup on its hot dog." (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/679/why-is-there-no-ketchup-on-a-properly-made-hot-dog)

National Hot Dog & Sausage Council, "Hot Dog Etiquette" --- Don't: Use ketchup on your hot dog after the age of 18. Mustard, relish, onions, cheese and chili are acceptable.(http://www.hot-dog.org/ht/d/sp/i/38617/pid/38617)

Bad News Bears (2005 movie), Tanner Boyle *character) --- "My dad says the only people who put ketchup on hot dogs are mental patients and Texans."

Joe Mormino, owner of Gene & Jude's, Serious Eats / Rachael Ray winner of Best Hot Dog --- "...there had been some requests for ketchup. So, he thought, I’ll give them ketchup for the french fries. Well, Gene came in and found the ketchup packets [that his son had brought in] all over the place and said, ‘What’s this?’ Gene dumped all the ketchup out in the dumpster and sternly told Jude’s son, ‘Not here.’" http://timeoutchicago.com/restaurants-bars/57404/the-minimalist

Again, my point isn't that Wikipedia should state that putting ketchup on a hot dog is wrong, rather that Wikipedia should mention a prominent and vocal hotdog subculture Nuffle (talk) 09:18, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Facepalm Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 13:55, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

dogs

who calls them just dogs? sometimes the word hot is replaced(chili dog, dodger dog), I know they are sometimes shortened to dogs in speech, but only when the context is clear, but I doubt that people use it more commonly, at least now these days. in short, remove the "more commonly" or add a citation. 67.176.160.47 (talk) 05:09, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Bazillions of people call hotdogs "dogs". Ask any New Yorker. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:49, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Dog or hotdog, we use whichever. We're also dog people (like half the city owns dogs) though so if you're walking your dog, you'll say hotdog. =p Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie Say Shalom! 07:58, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Talk page auto-archiving all Mucked up

Why does each archive consist of only one topic? I have removed the auto-archiving until someone can fix it. The Hero of This Nation (talk) 23:30, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

I believe I have corrected it - and will watch to make sure. ^Avic_ennasis @ 01:36, 24 Elul 5771 / 01:36, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Hotdog vs Hot dog

I would've said the former, google seems to have a significant number of hits for "hotdog" as well, and google fight gives the victory to the single word spelling here, surely at the very least it should be noted as a alternative spelling.Number36 (talk) 23:08, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

No Chicago Style Hotdog picture?

This article needs a picture of a Chicago style hotdog, as it is the best hotdog in the world. Period. Anyone who has had a real Chicago hotdog knows this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.14.35.16 (talk) 04:58, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Chicago-style hot dog has its own dedicated page, with a great photo there. Randal Oulton (talk) 08:54, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Hot Dog vs Wiener

I read the sandwich discussion section, and thought this topic might come up there, but it didn't.

Most serious hot dog food historians (and there are some hard core ones, I'll tell 'ya), only consider the hot dog to have been born in history when the wiener was married to a long, slit roll, and pronounced a "hot dog."

A wiener on its own ain't a hot dog; a hot dog roll on its own ain't a hot dog either. If someone sold you a hot dog, and gave you only the wiener, and said "oh, the roll is extra", I think you'd be pretty surprised.

In colloquial American English, some people now use the word "hot dog" on its own to mean just a wiener. And colloquial American English is, for better or worse, a powerful force, I grant you.

That being said, I think in a place such as an encyclopaedia, one... well, if ya ain't gonna strive for clarity in an encyclopaedia, where are you going to?

Note the current opening paragraph for this article. It confusingly equates a wiener with a hot dog. This leads to greater confusion in articles such as Rutt's Hut: "Rutt's Hut is a restaurant in Clifton, New Jersey known for its style of deep-fried hot dogs." Now that's confusing because it downright says right away in the reader's mind that the whole thing is deep-fried, roll and all (whereas it's only the wiener that is deep-fried.)

I haven't taken part in this article and so it's not my place to make such a sweeping change to it. I think it should be applied here; but I'm just putting this up for discussion.

Proposal: distinction be made between a hot dog and a wiener. With a note that some people colloquially call just a wiener on its own a hot dog. Randal Oulton (talk) 08:54, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree - to me, "wiener" means the sausage, while "hot dog" means a wiener in a bun. Perhaps this is a regional difference? If so, it should be mentioned that the term has different meanings; if not, then I would support changing it as you suggest. 96.50.109.213 (talk) 01:55, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

A Wiener (meaning Viennese in German) is a Viennese sausage, and a Frankfurter (which should be pretty straightforward) means a hotdog, but colloquialy they're indeed the same. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie Say Shalom! 07:56, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

A hot dog is not just any sausage

This article is missing a major detail that is crucial to differentiating the hot dog from any other sausage. The hot dog is an emulsified sausage, with a homogeneous meat/fat mixture filling. This needs to be corrected, as all hot dogs are sausages, but not all sausages are hot dogs.
Source is Bruce Aidells' Complete Sausage Book, pg 66: http://books.google.com/books?id=u_7jMJ6Jo4UC&lpg=PR1&dq=bruce%20aidells%20complete%20sausage&pg=PA66#v=onepage&q=emulsified&f=false — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jdskeilson (talk • contribs) 19:24, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

How is that different from Vienna sausage?
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 20:30, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

The Vienna sausage is also an emulsified sausage, but it is milder in taste and generally shaped a bit differently. Vienna sausage is also more likely to contain pork, while the hot dog is more likely to contain beef, but that isn't a hard and fast rule. There are other types of emulsified sausage besides the hot dog, but it's not a hot dog if it is not emulsified. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.191.146.168 (talk) 16:51, 10 April 2011 (UTC)