Talk:House of Representatives (Netherlands)

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Name[edit]

The name of this article is incorrect: the 2e Kamer is not the house of representatives as in the USA. There are no districts that send a representative to parliament. Secondly, the dutch translation of the term "house of representatives" is never used in the dutch context. In all cases the term 2nd chamber is used. I propose that this wiki be named 2nd Chamber or lower house of the Netherlands. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.249.241.3 (talk) 20:12, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Sadly the official name ridiculously equates the Second Chamber with the House of Representataives. The official website of the Chamber is at http://www.houseofrepresentatives.nl/ for example. – Kaihsu (talk) 21:27, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Euhm no, the official website is at http://www.tweedekamer.nl/. It is in Dutch, being that of the Dutch parliament. The website quoted by you is the translation.
But even if you would make the point the translate website is "official" you should read the site which calls it "The Dutch House of Representatives" and not "The house of representatives of the Netherlands", so your move is not very well backed up. Arnoutf (talk) 21:39, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
The translated website mentioned is a website maintained and moderated by the government, hence it is an official website. They can (and should) however have an English website, since English is one of the official languages in the Netherlands. Why they chose the name "House of Representatives" rather than "Second Chamber", I don't know. In the part of the Netherlands where the majority of the population speaks English (Saba/Statia) it is more commonly referred to as Second Chamber (i.e. see several articles on www.sabanews.nl). However, if the Dutch government calls the parliament House of Representatives, I think we should call it that way, too. PPP (talk) 12:23, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
So is anyone going to move the page to Dutch House of Representatives?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.152.239.68 (talk) 14:05, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
No. The house is not called Dutch House of Representatives. It's called House of Representatives. And it's in The Netherlands. Hence the current title is correct and needs no adjustment. PPP (talk) 08:37, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
But the English-language version of the official website cited above as justifying our not calling this body the Second Chamber of the States General DOES call it "The Dutch House of Representatives" (even though that's a silly "translation" in my view and smacks of kowtowing to the United States). By the way, that official website is NOT "maintained and moderated by the government", as claimed above, but by the Second Chamber itself ("Dit is de officiële website van de Tweede Kamer der Staten-Generaal"). Government and parliament are not the same thing! -- Picapica (talk) 00:19, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
Oh, and another thing, it is nonsense to claim that "English is one of the official languages in the Netherlands": De officiële taal in Nederland is het Nederlands / The official language in the Netherlands is Dutch - and only Dutch. That's not surprising given that only some 0.03% of Dutch citizens have English as their first home language, in any case: around 360 times as many citizens have Nedersaksisch as their first home language! -- Picapica (talk) 00:41, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Electoral districts[edit]

What do the 19 electoral districts do in this system? And why are the residual seats divided by nineteen? --rmhermen

The electoral districts don't seem to have much affect on the calculations, apart for a bit of an obstacle for new parties to get the signatures of support, but maybe they have some role in organising the elections, polling stations, ballot papers etc. I don't know what happens if a party submits a different candidate list for each district. Not sure what you mean by residual seats divided by nineteen: rather there's a different calculation method used if the number of remander seats is greater than 19. -(
The electoral districts are: 1. an obstable for new parties, they need 30 signatures in every district and 2. a way to place regional candidates only on a list in their home region. Parties can choose to have a list with the same candidates throughout the country, or different lists in every district or a group of districts, so every party has somewhere between 1 and 19 different lists. Usually only the last 5 candidates differ, but larger differences, although rare, may occur.
To calculate the total number of seats a party receives, the sum of votes on all these lists is used. When a party has more than 1 list, the seats a party received are further allocated on these lists by dividing the parties number of votes through the number of seats it received. Remainder seats are allocated using the largest surplus method. When candidates are declared elected on more than one list (what happens if there is hardly any difference between the different lists), they are elected on the list where they received the most preference votes. Usually this means that top candidates are elected on the list in either their home region, or the list from electoral district 7, Arnhem, the largest district, and backbenchers on the other lists. This also means that when a MP resigns, the list on which he was elected is used to nominate his replacement.
There is no different calculation system when the number of remainder seats is higher than 19. In practice the number of remainder seats in Second Chamber elections is 4-6. The D'Hondt system of largest averages is always used. You are probably confused with the municipal councils (gemeenteraden). When the number of seats of a council is 19 or higher, the D'Hondt method is used. This means that a party can win more than one remainder seat, and there is a preference for larger parties (making list combinations interesting). When the number of seats is 17 or less, the largest surpluses method is used, which prefers smaller parties and limits the number of remainder seats for a party to one. Freako 18:43, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm still a bit confused. So, the Netherlands don't elect it's PM's from electoral districts/consituencies? --98.250.5.197 (talk) 07:26, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
No, because at elections for the House of Representatives, every major party has a national list of candidate-MP's. The top candidate of a party is generally that party's candidate to become PM. Some smaller parties are only on the ballot in some areas, but we always use the D'Hondt system. VR-Land (talk) 17:30, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

"it is possible to gain one of the 150 seats with as little as 0.6 percent of the votes."[edit]

What is so special about being able to gain a seat with as little as 0.6% of the votes (which btw. should be rather 0.7% rounded correctly)? In the US Senate, which only has 100 seats, it's possible to acquire a seat with less than 0.1% of the votes (either one of the two Wyoming seats, or other less populated US states).—Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.146.181.169 (talkcontribs)

Bad example, because the USA is a republic. Residents of one state cannot vote for a Senate candidate of another state. Intangible 22:47, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
It is possible to gain a seat with as little as 0.7% of the votes in each of the districts. That is the difference. Arnoutf 09:35, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
The fact that the USA is a republic is irrelevant. The fact that it is a federation and the Netherlands is a unitary state is not. Quiensabe (talk) 15:02, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
Anyway, you can gain 0.6% of the representation (i.e. 1 seat) with 0.6% of the votes. Sounds rather democratic to me. ~(PS in the UK district system you could in principle gain an absolute majority with as little as 0.6% of the votes -> You need to win 51% of the districts and need 0 votes elsewhere (already doubling your impact per district to 1.2%). If in each of these districts 100 parties participate, and the other 99 gain 1%, you will win all of those (largest wins, majority not needed). Far fetched, but possible. Arnoutf (talk) 21:34, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Proposed merger[edit]

I am not in favour. To my memory the tables used to be in this article and were moved to the separate article to cleanup the current one. Moving it back in would undo this idea Arnoutf 21:54, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Radicalism[edit]

Surely, labeling D66's ideology as radicalism, doesn't sound right. This must be a translation error. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.49.138.160 (talk) 02:34, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

I do not know where you found the word 'radicalism', because in the last edit before your comment, the ideology was described as 'Social liberalism'. But radicalism is an old word for approximately the same ideology: left-wing of the traditional bourgeoisie liberalism; the name originated before socialism (which is again left of this 'radicalism') became a mainstream movement. Of course nowadays, radicalism has also other connotations. Bever (talk) 18:10, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

Sworn in[edit]

When does the House get sworn in? How soon after an election? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.179.110 (talk) 02:59, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

In this case on June 14, ie after 5 days. Arnoutf (talk) 21:50, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Mark Rutte isnt a parliamentairy leader[edit]

The Dutch system knows dualism, wich means that a minister cant have a seat in either houses. Thus Stef Blok (nmr 3.) is the parliamentary leader. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.119.106.81 (talk) 07:56, 14 September 2012 (UTC)