Talk:ISO basic Latin alphabet

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Neologism?[edit]

Sorry has the neologism gone? I can't see anything that particularly stands out. 78.146.245.130 (talk) 22:40, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

I think somebody thought that the article title was a neologism as a phrase.... AnonMoos (talk) 06:55, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
I suspect "Basic modern Latin alphabet" is a term made up by a Wikipedia editor and not used in the real world. The article cites no sources. A cursory Google search revealed no independent hits (i.e. excluding those which might easily have borrowed the term from Wikipedia). jnestorius(talk) 22:32, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
"Basic Latin" is the name of the Unicode block which contains these characters. And "modern" is a reasonable adjective to disambiguate it from the older version which lacked a distinction between I/J and U/V/W. DanBishop (talk) 23:05, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
See Template talk:Latin alphabet, it is not a neologism the article title is a descriptive one. As DanBishop it is a reasonable title to disambiguate it from the older versions. -- PBS (talk) 22:34, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
If anyone cares, the revision to which I added the {{neologism}} tag began "The Modern basic Latin alphabet is a Latin-derived alphabet and comprises 26 letters." Subsequent edits and moves by PBS and others have addressed my concerns. Thanks! jnestorius(talk) 21:09, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

English the only Latin-based language not requiring diacritics?[edit]

The article states that English is the only Latin-based European language not requiring diacritics, but that depends on one's perspective. None of the following languages have letters with diacritics which constitute distinct letters in their alphabets: English, German, French, Dutch, Cornish, Lexemburgish. Diacritics used as accents are another story. English, for example, does allow diacritics as accents on some loan words at the writer's discretion. I'm not a linguist, but if someone doesn't clarify and/or expand on the passage in the article which ascertains that English is the only language based on Latin that does not require diacritics, I'm going to delete it for it can lead to readers of the artical getting the wrong idea. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TechTony (talkcontribs) 08:12, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, but English is one of the very few European Latin-alphabet languages where it's never considered "wrong" as such to omit all diacritics (though in certain cases it can be considered typographically inelegant). In other words, diacritics add a certain elegant sophistication or foreign spice to English text, but are completely optional when only basic functionality is concerned. In most other European Latin-alphabet languages, diacritics are not generally optional, and omitting diacritics is simply wrong in most contexts... AnonMoos (talk) 23:35, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
The article states English is the only one and does so without any qualification. You stated above that English "is one of the very few", and that is not the same as "the only one", so you refute the statement in the article also. You go on further and say that "In most other European Latin-alphabet languages, diacritics are not generally optional". That is not the same as "in all other European languages, diacritics are required".TechTony (talk) 07:37, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
Not sure what you're talking about -- the article says "English is the only major modern European language requiring no diacritics for native words"... AnonMoos (talk) 15:21, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

I agree with TechTony that this displays an anti-diacritic POV. “Native” words include fully-naturalized borrowings such as rosé and lamé, which are distinguished by the diacritics, and which appear in professional writing and in documentary dictionaries with the diacritic. English doesn’t “require” anything, since there is no official orthography, but diacritics are an integral part of the written language.

Please cite the assertion or remove it. Michael Z. 2013-03-23 16:05 z

Some people would say that if an English word is written with a diacritic, then that's a sign that it's not yet fully nativized (excepting "ö" after "co-" and "ë" after "re-", of course). In any case, English is the only major modern European language where it's never outright completely wrong to omit all diacritics in ordinary connected text which uses both upper- and lower-case characters. During the first era of newspaper computerization in the United States (i.e. most of the 1970s and 1980s), many newspapers (including the Los Angeles Times) had no ability to print any diacritics in article/editorial text. It would be unthinkable for a French newspaper remotely comparable in status to the Los Angeles Times to omit all diacritics, so in that respect there's a very significant difference between English and French, and I don't see that your revisions to the article really clarified things... AnonMoos (talk) 17:50, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Equivalent alphabets[edit]

This section is full of WP:OR and inconsistencies, featuring a definition of an “equivalent alphabet” without any source. Worse, Spanish alphabet and Dutch alphabet from the table apparently fail to satisfy that definition. The former has the letter “ñ” which is not equivalent to “n”, and the latter has problems with “IJ (digraph)” frequently treated as a separate letter in collation algorithms. Incnis Mrsi (talk) 21:21, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Spanish was removed from the article some time ago, just for that reason (not sure how it crept back in). Dutch is complicated, because many Dutch people think that "IJ" is a separate letter, but international standards bodies seem to disagree. AnonMoos (talk) 17:59, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

(ISO?) basic Latin alphabet[edit]

I'd like to bring to editors' attention that I've turned Basic Latin alphabet, which used to be a redirect to this article, into a disambiguation page. This is because I believe the term "basic" doesn't in any way restrict the connotations of "Latin alphabet" to those standardized by the ISO.

There have been edits on the articles regarding individual Latin letters, such as A, B, C, and so on, which among other thing specify at which point of the ISO basic alphabet each letter is found, to remove mentions of ISO. In this way, they ended up saying things like "W is the 23rd letter of the basic Latin alphabet", which just flies in the fact of the fact it's not considered a separate letter in a few Latin-derived alphabets, and it wasn't in the classical Latin alphabet at all, only being introduced centuries later.

What I would ideally like to end up with is a "Basic Latin alphabet" disambiguation page with an exhaustive list of articles concerning alphabets that are commonly termed "the Latin alphabet", the "letter" articles to explicitly mention and direct to the ISO basic Latin alphabet article they logically stem from, maybe while being more specific about letters that have always been in the classical Latin alphabet versus ones added later if needed, and other articles directly linking to the correct Latin-related article, except possibly in cases where Latin-related alphabets are being talked about in general terms, where maybe the disambiguation page could be linked to.

LjL (talk) 22:00, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

I suggest this is followed up to, if needed, on the Basic Latin alphabet talk page, where I'd consolidate any discussion spawning from the "letter articles" (A, B, C, etc.). LjL (talk) 12:51, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Report of content removal[edit]

User:AnonMoos twice removed the Unish alphabet:

ArmijaDonetsk (talk) 02:27, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

And I removed it because it simply isn't important enough to be included on this page. Why don't you discuss the issue, instead of "filing" a faux pseudo-"report"? -- AnonMoos (talk) 07:56, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Third removal by User:AnonMoos:

For the record: It seems never before an alphabet that uses exactly the 26 letters of the ISO basic Latin alphabet has been removed. Seems AnonMoos has some special agenda. Also see their decoration on my talk page: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:ArmijaDonetsk&diff=607133769&oldid=607070201 ArmijaDonetsk (talk) 02:38, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Dude, your phoney "reports" are completely and utterly meaningless, and no one on Wikipedia cares about them except you. Instead, why don't you address the substance of my objection that "Unish" is simply not important enough to be included on this article?? That would be far more constructive than all of your bogus "report"[sic] "filing"... AnonMoos (talk) 02:51, 7 May 2014 (UTC)