Talk:Ibn Battuta

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Former good article Ibn Battuta was one of the good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.


China[edit]

"We entered the harbour of Quanzhou in great pomp, the like of which I have never seen in those lands," he noted, "but it was a joy to be followed by distress." Then he describes the great Chinese junks that monopolized traffic to China.

The large junks had three masts and up to twelve sails, which were "never lowered, but turned according to the direction of the wind." Three smaller vessels usually accompanied the junks to tow them if they became becalmed. The junk was the fourteenth-century equivalent of the modern ocean liner. It even carried its own fresh food: "The sailors," notes Ibn Battuta, "have their children living on board ship, and they cultivate green stuffs, vegetables and ginger in wooden tanks."

In Calicut Ibn Battuta loaded his party and the presents for the Chinese emperor on a junk. His own belongings were put onto a smaller vessel called a kakam. The junk, as it made its way from the harbor, was caught by a sudden gale which whipped up the sea and dashed the ship onto shoals. All was lost. The smaller kakam then sailed away with all of Ibn Battuta's goods. He watched the kakam grow smaller in the distance with nothing to his name but ten dinars and the carpet he had slept on.

Ibn Battuta landed at Quanzhou, in the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries, which may have been what is today the island of Amoy, opposite Formosa. He traveled through China as an ambassador, although he actually represented no one and was without credentials. Despite the fact that the Muslim and Chinese empires were not on the friendliest terms, Ibn Battuta journeyed from Quanzhou to Hangchow and Peking and back without any difficulty. On the contrary, he was feted in most places, a testimony to his charm and native diplomacy.

"There is no people in the world," noted Ibn Battuta, "wealthier than the Chinese." He called Hangchow "the biggest city I have ever seen on the face of the earth."[1]

Traveller from an antique land[edit]

I would like to voice thanks for this article. When I saw it, I thought I know that name, but I have forgotten where I read it!. On reading the article, I recalled that it was a hilarious parody of reviewers' comments within the framework of Ozymandias treated as a scientific research report.

The opening line:

  • I met a traveller from an antique land...

was greeted with:

  • As the report appears to be based on field observations by another geologist, we suggest that joint authorship would be appropriate.

In the rewritten version Shelley's co-author was given as Ibn Battuta. At long last I now get the joke.

I would share more of the original but I believe that the above marks the boundaries of fair use for copyright purposes. --Alan Peakall 17:46 Oct 23, 2002 (UTC)

The full rewritten poem is well worth looking up on Google Books :-) It ends up getting retitled
Twin limb-like basalt columns ('trunkless legs') near Wadi Al-Fazar, and their relationship to plate tectonics.
Ibn Batuta1 and P B Shelley2
The piece, called "Preparing Scientific Papers", is by N.S. Haile. It first appeared in Nature 268 100 (1977), and was later included in Robert Lemmerman Weber, More Random Walks in Science. CRC Press, 1982, pp. 14-16. Jheald 17:39, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

POV Issues[edit]

No treatment of this topic can be complete without an extensive discussion of his "culture shock" and his reactions to the societies he saw. The current piece is a whitewashed PC version that is designed not to offend members of his community. There is a serious problem with the effects of Ibn Batuta's writings on perceptions in the Arab World on the other and that problem is NOT going away. Furthermore, failing to include samples of the "culture shock" is intellectually dishonest and is an offense at the people who are heirs of the cultures he maligned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.12.203.116 (talk) 10:27, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Makkah[edit]

Is this page intended to be read by native English speakers who are not Muslims? If so, this sentence is pretty foolish: "...Ibn Battuta went on a hajj -- a pilgrimage to Makkah." If someone does not know what the hajj is, there's about zero chance that he/she/it will ever have heard of Makkah, and just about a dead certainty that "pilgrimage to Mecca" would have been understood instantly. Of course, they can follow the link to find out what Makkah is; but then, they could follow the link to hajj, couldn't they? Why give the non-explanation here?

To insist on the use of a name not used by major English-language news media or reference works (cf. http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/x/x-m1akka.asp ), and not known to about 90% of native speakers of the language, is to insist on politics in place of communication. Dandrake 01:33, Jan 20, 2004 (UTC)

Merge completed[edit]

The Ibn Batuda article (ie, about the same person) is now merged with this one, and changed to a redirect to here. Merge tag therefore removed.--cjllw | TALK 2005 July 1 08:20 (UTC)

Pronounce[edit]

How is his name pronounced?

According to a pronunciation guide, it's IB-uhn ba-TOO-tuh. Unfortunately the person who photocopied it didn't source it.

Map of his travels[edit]

Would it be possible to include one, and for other early explorers?

If you make it it will be so. 76.172.64.179 06:30, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Which madhhab is correct?[edit]

In the beginning of this article Ibn Battuta is described as belonging to the Maliki madhhab, but at the bottom he is included in the category of notable Shafi'is. The former seems more likely, given their prevalence in North Africa and particularly among the Berbers, but I don't know which is correct. Does anyone know, so we can fix this contradiction? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Breadhat (talkcontribs) 28 November 2006.

Maliki is correct, at least according to Mackintosh-Smith's translation and notes. During his stay in Delhi Ibn Battuta was made Maliki qadi of the city. Don't know where or why the Shafi'i category was applied, should probably be removed.--cjllw | TALK 08:34, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll go ahead and fix it. (Forgot to sign my previous comment.)Breadhat 02:00, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
's ok, I've gone ahead and replaced the Shafi'is category with cat:Malikis.--cjllw | TALK 08:10, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Good Article review[edit]

In a 3 to 0 vote on GA/R, this article has been delisted, primarily for only having sparse references and some writing problems. Review archived here: Wikipedia:Good article review/Archive 14. Homestarmy 13:36, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Social Indicators in the Islamic kingdoms???[edit]

Clearly it does not make up any part of Biography and is only excerpts of the Book quoted 16 times. It might have a place on WikiSource but isnt suitable for this Biography. --Webkami 15:36, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Considering that Ibn Battuta was an author , observer and traveller ...quotations from his book in an article about him are entirely relevant . In any case we know about Ibn Battuta from his own writings , if you know about him from other sources please quote . Further the 16 quotes are from precise pages ...now what problem would you have with that??

Dident miss my attention off course that you visited and added edits to three articles I have contributed to in a single session ....should I read into this or is it a credible coincidence. CheersIntothefire 16:39, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

The place it should go is WikiQuotes. Lets have somebody else a word about it. I do roam around wikipedia and correct things I am sure of and question things that look suspicious to me. I dont see any harm if I question a few things in one session? --Webkami 09:19, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Webkami you put a comment ....I answered comprehensively providing reasons ...but I have no direct response to my question -see first para of my response . Then you say you roam wikipedia fixing things that "look suspecious to me " . Request please specifically and openly spell out your suspesions on my posts in this article " cheers Intothefire 12:44, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I am sorry if I wasnt clear.

  • I have read your reasoning but I am saying this many quotes should not be there in article, one or two seems fine rest should got in Wiki Quotes.
  • The thing is that some of our interests are same so I happen to visit some of the articles that you edited. Now I have this question which I posted here, another question which I posted on relevant article. Nothing personal.

Have fun... --Webkami 15:47, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Well then  :-D Intothefire 16:02, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Merge discussion:[edit]

Note: It has been suggested that Travelling route of Ibn Batuta be merged into this article since "the other article contains little information, that belongs in this article instead". Please voice your opinions below: --HAL2008 talk Contributions 02:55, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

  • Support — The other article adds nothing to the topic. –Taranah 05:08, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Support - but it must be woven into the prose for this article - just copying the list over would look incongrous. --Joopercoopers 14:53, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Support - There is no reason whatsoever why these two articles should not be merged already, so I agree..Taharqa 22:24, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Deletion of Section Social indicators in the Islamic kingdoms (POV and original research)[edit]

The section Social indicators in the Islamic kingdoms sums up all negative stereo-types about Arab/Islam society and uses random fragments of Ibn Battuta to illustrate the point. This unsourced interpretion is not based on secondary sources. The section is unencyclopedic and should be removed.S711 12:29, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

I totally agree with the deletion of this section. Quotes without secondary source analysis to put them in context are misleading. Thanks for improving the article! Taranah 21:45, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Taranah your double standards are astonishing .

Lets take a look at your contribution in restoring an entire section in the article on Ibn Khaldun viz Assessment on different civilizations and your edit details
Revision as of 19:58, 18 May 2007 (edit) (undo) Taranah (Talk | contribs)
(restoring disputed section until a workable replacement is available)
Newer edit →

On this article you oppose direct and referenced quotes taken from Ibn Batuta .
On article Ibn Khaldūn you oppose removal of direct quotes from Ibn Khaldun

Apparently you dont have a problem concerning Africans ..in the article on Ibn Khaldun the section I reproduce below .....makes me wonder why this selective amnesia ?

Ibn Khaldūn writes on black people:

The only people who accept slavery are the Negroes, owing to their low degree of humanity and proximity to the animal stage. Other persons who accept the status of slave do so as a means of attaining high rank, or power, or wealth, as is the case with the Mameluke Turks in the East and with those Franks and Galicians who enter the service of the state [in Spain].[2]

As to the point made by .S711 regarding
1)POV and original research
Where s the POV in the quotes ? and what is original in the quotes ?
2)negative stereo-types about Arab/Islam society
these are Quotes of Ibn Batuta and recorded here in an article about Ibn Batuta . 3) not based on secondary sources
were I to provide secondary sources will you persist with this charge ...or come up with a new one .
4)unsourced interpretion
would you like to interpret them ?
5)unencyclopedic ,
quotes from Ibn Batuta in an article on Ibn Batuta are unencyclopedic ?

The basis for objections provided are deceptive ...your objections are actually only against this information being made available .
Cheers Intothefire 12:54, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


I concur, this section is anti Islamic stereo type at it's best. The section should be renamed negative social customs as opposed to it's deceptive title, which I believe is malicious. The fact that Ibn Battuta's honesty in recording the malpractice and negatives of a culture is being misrepresented without the positives to also counter and balance this is absolutely atrocious. In answer to your points;
1)"POV and original research"

Where s the POV in the quotes ? and what is original in the quotes ?

The POVis in being selective about negatives, and not affording ample balance to the opposites.
2)negative stereo-types about Arab/Islam society

these are Quotes of Ibn Batuta and recorded here in an article about Ibn Batuta .

Again, where is the balance? But I think you KNEW what you were doing here...
3) not based on secondary sources
were I to provide secondary sources will you persist with this charge ...or come up with a new one .
If the article were balanced instead of misleading as you have clearly done, I doubt anyone will level any charge against you. But another secondary anti POV ist source wont help here, but a neutral balanced one (if you can find one with your POV...) would be ideal.
4)unsourced interpretion
would you like to interpret them ?
Answer the point rather than rhetorical spin, which your article clearly is.
5)unencyclopedic ,
quotes from Ibn Batuta in an article on Ibn Batuta are unencyclopedic ?
Yep. When you represent info in an unbalanced, negatives only way, then that this POV which is blatantly unencyclopedic. Do the math.
Instead of dealing with the point at hand, you try and muster evidence against the user? Your history shows your anti Arab stance. Please work for a balanced article.--Fitnessisgood 13:32, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
lol -welcome "new user" Fitnessisgood...you find my history anti arab stance and where did you get that from "new user" ...please list the articles here "new user "...they will add substance along with this one here of the delete team at work on my posts . Cheers "new user " I could introduce you to user Tigeroo ,he could help you , he s great at deletion

Intothefire 14:27, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I've reverted that selective list of quotes inserted by Intothefire. This is a biographical article on Ibn Battuta, not an article about "social indicators" (whatever that's supposed to mean) and interpretations on aspects of 14thC Islamic cultures. It would be valid to use quotes to illustrate aspects of the narrative, but that doesn't seem to be your purpose- you provide no context for the quotes or any rationale as to why these particular ones add to any understanding of the subject to hand. And while it may be valid to provide in the article some background and description of the context and times during which Ibn Battuta lived, any such assessment needs to be based on notable third-party sources, and not your own personal interpretation of what you think is significant or not. It would be a simple matter to cherry-pick another set of quotes from the text to cobble together an entirely different impression.--cjllw ʘ TALK 02:04, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I think Intothefire has misunderstood my position on the article about Ibn Khaldun. My position is stated clearly, and repeatedly, on the discussion page. In both articles I think lists of quotes without context or secondary source analysis are inappropriate. I firmly agree with cjllw's position, as stated so eloquently above. –Taranah 03:30, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Am not entirely convinced CJLL Wright , but since you happen to be an editor I will not persist with this discussion . I am recording this delete on the talk page in order that this discussion on the deletion may be seen in its total perspective . I do hope that the editor and the other contributors have at least read the book , and when charges are made of one sided selective quotes provided by me they may be in a position to provide other quotes that may balance out the section ....otherwise it seems political correctness in extreme may be misused as a pretext for whitewash. Intothefire 06:43, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I don't think there's any need to reproduce the deleted section on this talk page, it is easily accessible through the article history (eg here [1]), should anyone wish to review it. And yes, I have read the book, in fact the same Mackintosh-Smith edition you seem to have been using. As mentioned, I don't think that the purpose of this article is served by filling it (or its talkpg) with quotes, unless they are used to illustrate the narrative and any interpretive commentary on what they portray is attributed to third-party sources. I could just as easily produce another list of quotes, such as "The citizens of Mecca are given to well-doing, of consummate generosity and good disposition, liberal to the poor and to those who have renounced the world, and kindly towards strangers" (p.48), and others in a similar vein. However, since neither you nor I are qualified or citeable sources, constructing such a list for the sole purpose of compiling some overall 'impression' of 14thC Islamic societies would be questionable, and ultimately of little informational value. Regards, --cjllw ʘ TALK 05:01, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Which reference ...[edit]

Which book from the references section is the best overall description of ibn Battuta's travels? --Ghostexorcist (talk) 00:39, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

arabic[edit]

isnt he arabic?? his language is arabic also he was arabic poet so we can say he is a arabic guy from berber origin.... any suggesting Bayrak (talk) 17:20, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

He was a Tangerine. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 18:43, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
yes i know that but i am talking about his culture --Bayrak (talk) 20:27, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
A biographical dictionary complied in the 15th century says he was "of the tribe of Luwata." (Gibb, The Travels of Ibn Battuta, Vol. I, p. ix) The paper "The Assimilation of Nomads in Egypt" and the book The Empire of the Mahdi say the Luwata were descended from Arabs. However, he should be labeled based on his birth home or tribe and not his culture. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 21:31, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
The Luwata are not Arabs, but old Arab Muslim historians claim that all Berbers were descended from them. They also claim the same thing about the Kurds. Anyway, I am talking about his culture. --Bayrak (talk) 21:47, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
Though they were Arabized after the Islamic conquests, I imagine the Berber people have their own distinctive culture. So he could be described as a "Tangerine descended from the Berber tribe of Luwata". --Ghostexorcist (talk) 22:05, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

the Arabizm is culture not orign and there is no nations descended from one father ibn battuta was arabic poet also we have black people with arabs and they consider them selfs as arabs althought the are from africa however in our books we consider him arabic --Bayrak (talk) 22:30, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

so....??--Bayrak (talk) 22:38, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

UAE Radio Programme[edit]

Many years ago I LOVED listening to an english radio programme about Ibn Battuta by UAE Radio (shortwave, 21Mhz or so). Any chance to listen to it again? PLEASE leave a comment in this blog if you heard it too or can help source it... (leave a comment on my blog if you can) Y23 (talk) 05:43, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes I used to listen to this programme in the mid-late 1980s and enjoyed it as much as you did. This was on UAE radio from Dubai which broadcasted into Europe on 21605 during the day and lower frequencies (which I forget) at night. I was at university at the time and took out a book from the university library. The UAE radio programme was quite faithful to the rather more dry account given in the book.Rugxulo (talk) 01:53, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Correction required[edit]

"A sea voyage from Damascus on a Genoese ship landed him in Alanya on the southern coast of modern-day Turkey" Basic geographic knowledge will tell you that Damascus is not a seaport. The Lone Wiki (talk) 18:42, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for spotting this. It should be Latakia (Ladiqiya) - pages 137-139 in Dunn. Aa77zz (talk) 20:51, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Laitin?[edit]

Here, a reference to a book by a certain Laitin was added, but there is no such book among the sources. From what book did this information come? /Jssfrk (talk) 19:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

I am not a big fan of when editors leave such a condensed reference like that. It's pretty much the same as having no reference at all. Anyway, I believe the author might be David D. Laitin. I just typed "Ibn Battuta Laitin Somalia Arabic" into google books and it came up with a likely candidate. Check out the third book from this list:
http://www.google.com/search?q=Ibn+Battuta+Laitin&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&tbs=bks%3A1&q=Ibn+Battuta+David+Laitin+Somalia+Arabic&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=11e4dbcf7bece324
It has everything mentioned in the edit. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 22:30, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
I think it's this book, but there is no preview of it. When I search for david laitin battuta somali sultan that book is the only one in the hitlist, with the quote "The ruler of Mogadishu was a Berber (Somali) sultan who spoke Somali and Arabic with equal ease." Anyone who can get their hands on the book and confirm this? /Jssfrk (talk) 14:51, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Jssfrk: There seems to be a misunderstanding concerning your knowledge of Berbers and Somalis. These two groups are two different ethnic groups with the continent of Africa in common, however the former are supra-saharans and the latter sub-saharans. In essence, Berbers are particular to North Africa. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adhoc12 (talkcontribs) 19:38, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

That is the book I was referring to. The Google Books results that came up from my search had more than the three books that are in the link today. That's weird how it did that. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 16:07, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
I am the person who added the ref. The passage was sourced to this book from David D. Laitin and Said Sheikh Samatar. I apologize for not having supplied the complete citation, as I was copying and pasting the paragraph from another article, where the ref had already been cited in its entirety in an earlier paragraph. I must've overlooked this when I was pasting the material here. I've fixed the error now. Middayexpress (talk) 19:37, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Spelling[edit]

I see that there is a slow revert war going on about whether this article should use American or British spelling. Has there been any discussion anywhere on the matter, and if so, could someone point me at a link? Thanks. --Elonka 20:06, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes - on the talk page of the IP user, which is then deleted. See here and here. Aa77zz (talk) 20:57, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, though for best results, it would be better to have the discussion on the talkpage of the article here. If it can be shown that there was a discussion and a clear consensus on how the article should be written, then it's easier for administrators (such as myself) to take action. Because as soon as someone does something that is against consensus, we can point at the consensus and warn, and then if they keep reverting, it's easy to block their access as "disruptive editing, reverting in violation of talkpage consensus". --Elonka 01:30, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

First attempt at Map for Ibn-Battuta Itinerary 1325-1332 (North Africa, Egypt, Syria, Arabia, East Africa)[edit]

This is my first attempt at an overlay map. I've found it quite hard to "cram" everything on. If the consensus is that it's worthwhile to keep it, then I'll add additional maps for Battuta's itinerary for India, China, North Africa and the West through to 1354. So, anyone? Sladew (talk) 09:26, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

I think maps in this article are a good idea and one of my long term plans was to create suitable maps. Good maps would allow the list of places visited to be removed and could replace some of the other figures. Dunn 2005 contains a number of maps and there are also a few in Gibb 1958-2000. Dunn uses arrows to show the direction of travel. I tried using the "location map" template in my sandbox but at the time most of the available location maps covered individual countries rather than regions. For instance, I wanted a location map of North Africa and another of the Middle East. I felt that to create suitable maps I would need to redraw maps similar to those used by Dunn. I started trying to do this using PD geo data but didn’t find it very easy. I moved onto other tasks.
Yeah, I decided on an arbitrary split based on Africa, vs my next euro-africa, as outlined below. Sladew (talk) 06:35, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
The major problem with the new map is the large size – especially as this is only one of the several maps required. A limitation of using location maps is that if one clicks to enlarge one looses the marks. On my screen the present map is just about legible at 500px (I notice that you first tried 600px). Places visited by Ibn Battuta’s on his Sahara trip could also be displayed on the present map – although the location of the capital of the Mali Empire is not known. Neither Dunn nor Gibb believe that Ibn Battuta visited all the places listed in his Rihla. Perhaps the doubtful towns could be shown in a different colour. Perhaps the best solution would be to create suitable regional location maps. These would perhaps also be useful for other articles. Aa77zz (talk) 13:03, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
Hi, I deliberately made this first attempt at a map from the map template, so that anybody could have a go at editing the markers. So, I encourage you to have a go at re-colouring, resizing, etc. I kinda split the map into the date range based on Dunn's maps, because of the reasons outlined below. Sladew (talk) 11:06, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
As far as the size of the map is concerned, that imho is not really that big of an issue, as it can be resized in the code to fit the section. The problem is that the map primarily focuses on Africa when Battuta actually traveled much of the so-called "known" world at the time. A global map showing all of the main locations he traveled to, as outlined in the respective regional sections in this article, would therefore be preferable. Alternatively, a few maps could be made for each region he visited. But here again, it's important to respect how the regions are presented/structured in this article, and not by default create new regional groupings inconsistent with the ethno-cultural affiliations of the populations Battuta actually visited and describes. Middayexpress (talk) 14:39, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
Hi, re: the maps showing the whole world to give context to the travels, I agree. I initially tried Battuta's stops across the euro-africa world, and the problems is the places and names just get lost. Because he visited so much of the med and middle east, all those places "blur" or "smudge" into a mess, and you can really only see the longer distance trips out to India, China etc. So, I looked at Dunn, and decided to "chunk up" the itineraries. I was going for a first cut of the African/Med focused travels with subsequent maps dealing with India and China being set on the euro-africa map. Sladew (talk) 06:27, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
Also, on the subject of the maps. I really wanted to show Battuta's routes. However, there's nothing available in the map templates to allow routes. I've started sandboxing up a new template. If anybody has any thoughts, I'd be interested in kicking around ideas here... Sladew (talk) 06:35, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
Once last cool thing about the map templates is that the markers support wiki markup, so I'm just going through adding wiki-links to the place names... it's more a pain to do that with an image and image maps :( Sladew (talk) 06:41, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
Just had a hopefully GREAT idea, regarding routes, that I'm excited about. I'm working on it now... hopefully be able to sandbox up a new template over the next couple of days! Sladew (talk) 08:06, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
Just an update that this is all looking very very good. Definately moving to sandbox the template now! Sladew (talk) 08:27, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

I've got Paths/Routes working nicely now, can somebody help answer these two questions?[edit]

So, I've worked up a nice and simple solution to this problem of route or path overlays. I've sandboxed it and I'm very happy with a first cut testing. I'll move on to cross-browser testing tomorrow. Can somebody with a LOT more experience with templates than me, give me some guidance on the following questions:

  • Should I cut a new template for my changes or roll them into Location map+ (I really don't want to fork unnecessarily, but I don't want to mess up anybody elses use of that template...)?
  • Is there any sort of process for "approving" / testing this template for use, or do I just throw it up and start dropping it on pages??

Many thanks for your help with this. Sladew (talk) 11:06, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

I think that path overlays could become very cluttered and confusing. Battuta's often doubles back on himself (see travels in India), his exact route is sometimes uncertain (his arrival in India), he conflates several visits and then there is the problem that it is unlikely that he visited some of the places (dotted lines in Dunn). Dunn uses larger scale maps and connects the towns with curved lines. For the article here a small number of regional maps giving the towns visited might be prettier. Aa77zz (talk) 16:46, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
Hi, Aa77zz, I kinda agree about the confusing nature of the loops, but I thought I'd give it a shot anyhow. Check it out, and let me know what you think. I've coloured the first trip red which I think includes the pilgrimage to Mecca and then working from Dunn colored the second and third major trips blue and green. If If there's no huge objection then I'll continue onto the euro-africa-asian map and plot the other major markers and journeys. Sladew (talk) 07:20, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
Well done - it looks good, it fact much better than I had anticipated. In my own attempts I had just drawn straight lines between the towns and it looked a mess. I still think it would be preferable to have separate regional maps (as in Dunn) that could be placed at the side of the relevant paragraphs but it would involved more work. How many more maps are you planning to use? Perhaps for simplicity you could omit some of the doubtful trips eg that around Anatolia (Map 7 p138 in Dunn) and that to Bistam (Map 8 p175)Aa77zz (talk) 08:21, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the feedback. I'm actually quite pleased with how it turned out. I've created another map for Asia, India and China. I'm also thinking about a slightly small West African/Med map for the final journeys. I agree about simplifying around Anatolia. I'm wondering if I get a lot of savings out of this new template. Maybe I should just save SVG copies of the maps with new layers for the paths? Wish them was somebody I could talk to about this map templates.. . Sladew (talk) 08:35, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

The maps at present do not include Ibn Batutta's trip to Yemen.Daniel Sparkman (talk) 10:44, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Added the last journeys on the third map. I'm done with maps for a while now :) Sladew (talk) 21:55, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a new picture is needed for Ibn Battuta[edit]

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mughal Lohar (talkcontribs) 13:01, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

I have added Pakistan to the places indicated as visited by ibn Batuta in addition to India and Bangladesh.This was done to keep consistency with the place names i.e. Bangladesh and Sri Lanka - two names that did not exist before founding of Pakistan but already used in the article. I have also made amendments to place names which are now in Pakistan particularly in the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province of Pakistan (formerly NWFP)Moarrikh (talk) 00:45, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

File:Handmade oil painting reproduction of Ibn Battuta in Egypt, a painting by Hippolyte Leon Benett..jpg Nominated for Deletion[edit]

Image-x-generic.svg An image used in this article, File:Handmade oil painting reproduction of Ibn Battuta in Egypt, a painting by Hippolyte Leon Benett..jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests April 2012
What should I do?

Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.

  • If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use)
  • If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used.

To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Handmade oil painting reproduction of Ibn Battuta in Egypt, a painting by Hippolyte Leon Benett..jpg)

This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 13:35, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

missing info[edit]

There's several many missing, quite important information missing as of this article's latest update.

a list of a few of them:

There's barely any mention at all about his travel of:

  • the Levent/Damascus

(whose "cathedral mosque" was prior the islamic conquest a greek christian cathedral, split in two after the take over) (It was a extremly religious city, with it's population , muslims, jews and christians a like celebrated each's holidays)

  • Constantinople

Had according to him a thousands of churches/monestaries, allsow he calls the Byzantine Emperor "Georg" or something, not that greek named person on the page, allsow, it's unclear what king/emperor he actually meet according to the publisher.

the Sultan of Delhi's split personality: he was brutal and in the same time very generous, + all of his guests recived gifts, and the city's population had this sort of bizzare loaning buissness revolving this.

<quote from article> Sultan, who asked him instead to become his ambassador to Yuan Dynasty China.
Given the opportunity to get away from the Sultan and visit new lands, he readily accepted. > quote>

Actually, he wasn't the ambassador, he was asked to join a eunuch who was appointed as the sultan's emissary to the khan of china, but the eunuch was killed during a large hindi rebel attack on the enuch's entourage traveling towards Bengali. After sucessfully defeating the hindi rebels, he and other muslims gave chase after them, but they were in turn shortly afterwards chased by mounted hindi rebels, so the muslims choice to split up, ibn accidently dropped some precious item, which he picked up and shortly afterwards held at "gun-point" by some archers, but since he "threw himself to the ground" in a sign of surrender he had heard, the hindis spared him, stripped him almost completely of almost everything he had and put him in charge to: One young, one elder/sick man, and one mid-age man who was suppoused to execute him the following day, but the old man died and Ibn used this to escape, and during this escape, he meet a strange mystic man, who knew some persian mystic guy, think it was his brother and the indian was named like "heart" or something in persian. This strange guy gave him something, which he said Ibn was suppoused to give to someone in china, despite ibn was pretty fond of it.

the Maldive's currency was "kaui" sea-shells, they were allsow used as such by the "black" kingdoms in Mali, according to ibn.

No mention of the required "gift-costum" for travelers to the tamil/hindi king on Sri Lanka.

Allsow, there's strangely no mention of the extremely brutal chevauchée/mass murder-campaign by the local muslim sultan on the hindi populance in the Coromandel Coast described by himself as awful.

As he arrive to Bengal from the south, he was fearful of the Sultan of Dehli's warth,but strangely, he was then appointed emissary as an replacement to the dead enuch and thus became the Delhi sultan's "ambassador" and boarded a jonk to china.

Strangely, there's no mention of the Roc(mythological giant-bird) incident as his boat was sailing towards china in the article..

Other things left out:

the warrior-princess in some kingdom somewhere in south-east asia, where there was a costum that a subject(man) would preform a ritual-suicide for his ruler, to show his loyality. His family then recived a large sum of money for it. It was inherited, so the man's son would later have to preform the same ritual.

Ibn owned numerous slaves, think it's mentioned in Syria/Asia minor that he had at that time ~40 slaves.(unsure at the number though) And yes im aware islamic slaves were a little bit treated then afro-americans, but still. There was an incident, were two greek-slaves attempted to escape to a nearby greek city in Asia minor, but re-captured.


While in Southern Russia/Kazachstan, Rus(people) were described as unreliable red-haired brutes, who held rich silver mines.

During his staying in Mali / West Africa, he learns of a cannibal people living there.

Allsow, Abessinians(etiopians) are described as beingw renowned for their strengh and warrior prowlness and used by arab/muslim ship-crews as guards during voyages around India, as priates(indian) feared them apparently, and even if only one was visible, they didn't attack that ship.

--Byzantios (talk) 21:09, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Ethnicity[edit]

I've removed reference to his ethnicity from the lead and infobox as very little is known about his background. In the body of the article I've added the fact that he claimed descent from the Berber tribe known as the Lawata citing both Dunn and Defrémery & Sanguinetti. The link from the latter gives the Arabic text on which all modern translations are based. The Encyclopedia of Islam has an article on the Lawata here. Aa77zz (talk) 17:10, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Portraits[edit]

I've removed the two portraits of Ibn Battuta from the article. There are no authentic portraits dating from the 14th century. The presence of portraits in the article only serves to confuse the reader into believing otherwise. Aa77zz (talk) 17:21, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

  • Such an argument could be used to remove all depictions of personalities of ancient and medieval history. While [some] Muslims disapprove of depiction of Muhammand and other important figures of Islam, Wikipedia is not bound by this prohibition. - Mike Rosoft (talk) 14:50, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
  • I've no problem with using famous portraits of the subject where no contemporary likeness exists, but I don't think it is appropriate to illustrate this article with just any anonymous portrait. I notice that there are Featured Articles without portraits - for example: Hygeberht, John de Gray, Robert of Jumièges, Theobald of Bec, William Warelwast. Wikipedia isn't a children's story book. Aa77zz (talk) 19:57, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Cultural References[edit]

Ibn Battuta is heavily referenced in a Star Trek-based fan fiction, the main starship of which is named after him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.219.5.162 (talk) 08:30, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Yin Yang[edit]

What is the significance of a picture of a yin yang pavement (File:Yin-yang-and-bagua-near-nanning.jpg) to this article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.109.133.66 (talk) 04:23, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Rihla[edit]

This article's "The Rihla" section is far bigger than the stub Rihla article. I recommend either moving most of that section to the separate article or possibly merging the article's content back to here. I think it makes more sense for the "Rihle" article to discuss the book as a primary source rather than Battuta himself, which can remain where it is. If there's no opposing response in a week, I'm going to go ahead and move that content to the Rihla article. Chris Troutman (talk) 00:40, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

The Rihla article on Wikipedia assumes that the term only applies to the account by Ibn Battuta while actually a rihla was a recognised genre of Arabic travel writing and other authors wrote rihla. Dunn in his introduction (page 3) explains:

...rihla, or book of travels. As a type of Arabic literature, the rihla attained something of a flowering in North Africa between the twelfth and fourteenth centuries. The best known examples of the genre recounted a journey from the Maghrib to Mecca, informing and entertaining readers with rich descriptions of the pious institutions, public monuments, and religious personalities of the great cities of Islam.

Dunn (in note 3 on page 12) lists a number of publications that discuss the rihla literature of North Africa.
The Encyclopaedia of Islam has an article on Rihla (page 528 in Vol 8) that describes the genre and mentions the rihla of Ibn Jubayr (Ibn Djubayr) as well as that of Ibn Battuta. The Rihla article on Wikipedia needs to be either deleted or rewritten while this article should remain as it is. As nothing is known about Ibn Battuta's life other than what he tells us in his rihla, it does not seem sensible to split the present Ibn Battuta article. Aa77zz (talk) 12:18, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Ibn Battuta wasn't berber.[edit]

It is not sure that Ibn Battuta was berber, he could be an arab or mixed arab-berber. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.156.252.18 (talk) 02:53, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

The only information on Ibn Battuta's ancestry comes from what is written in his Rihla. See my comments above on the his ethnicity. Aa77zz (talk) 10:26, 16 June 2014 (UTC)