Talk:Ico

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Featured article Ico is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
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Difficulty differences[edit]

"The North American version of Ico had, along with a removal of bonus material, a lower difficulty than other versions. Notably, a few puzzles were shortened by chopping out the tricky bits, and the enemies were a lot slower and less aggressive - only spawning if you left Yorda in a different room and at scripted points." http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DifficultyByRegion

This being a featured article, maybe it would be more complete with that being mentioned. Just a thought. Twipley (talk) 00:13, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

There are no reliable sources that make that claim. We can cite the additional features in the nonNA versions, but never have seen the difficulty issue addressed reliably. --MASEM (t) 00:20, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Default page for ICO?[edit]

Surprising an old video game I never heard of is the page at /wiki/ico. You’d think it be the .ico file format or disambiguation page. --X883 (talk) 00:06, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

North American box art[edit]

Would anyone be opposed to including the North American box art lower down in the article, since it is cited for its lack of success and could serve as educational for readers to understand what the article is describing? - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 21:13, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

  • This is a great idea. The game's poor sales in the states are primarily due to the awful cover chosen over the beautiful one shown in the article. Go for it. 66.207.23.59 (talk) 08:18, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
  • Has anyone ever made the claim that the box art might have been due to a perceived need for Ico to be less Asian? That would be interesting reading--184.21.215.174 (talk) 06:16, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Suggested sources[edit]

For "Reception": [1], [2]. Hula Hup (talk) 17:08, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't have time for this: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ico&diff=509555357&oldid=508996544[edit]

Please if you care so much; discuss these edits.

I was just trying to help Wikipedia appear more cogent. The original caption says the element randomly elaborated upon in the caption had either influenced or coincidentally had also appeared in many games since. A) the comment is ancillary. B) very few games use the lighting techniques in Ico. There are two techniques that qualify. One is "bloom lighting", which is an effect that is only used when looking at the sun in Ico. It does not appear at all in the captioned image. The other is desaturated colour. Which is really not an effect, but an esthetic. The colours are somewhat desaturated in the image. But only because of the dust in the air. The outdoor areas are over saturated, as you can see on the platform that Ico (the character) is standing on. Very few games deploy over saturation.

The original caption reads "soft lighting". The only remaining thing Ico does is per vertex shadows, and a blurred stickman shadow effect that is so rare I have personally only seen it in Ico. Vertex based shadows have been out of fashion for a very long time. I won't go into the history of it. But static such shadows have not been used since the PS2. It would probably be better if games did use the technique, because it makes very nice looking games. But most games prefer uglier techniques because they are considered more realistic.

And now if someone reads this talk page they can learn a little something about Ico. FYI: I can single handedly program a game to do everything Ico does. --184.21.215.174 (talk) 06:13, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

WP:V and WP:RS. We go with what sources say, and not our own knowledge. Sources say Ico led games development with soft and bloom lighting, even if you feel it doesn't have that. (Also, bloom lighting is more than just what the WP article says it is, based on looking at many additional sources around the net. It's not just when light comes from near-directly behind an object to cause the bleed effect, but any sort of unfocused edges due to lighting).
Also, the caption was asked for during the review of this article for FAC. It helps to justify the inclusion of the screenshot to show the soft lighting technique in the game, which is again a sourcable fact.
Also be aware, you have reached the 3RR limit. You should have started this message after the first revert; randomly removing text that can be sourced is generally considered vandalism. --MASEM (t) 06:24, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Congratulations, you lose at life :(
Sourced facts are not actual facts, much less when common sense is trumped. There's nothing wrong with a picture of a ground breaking game in an article about said game. Please just leave it at that. It makes Wikipedia look ridiculous. Please continue this discussion here. I was just trying to help. I give up. Ico only has one bloom lighting effect; nothing else remotely close. There is nothing visually special about the captioned image. And a caption should be about 1 thing. Not 2 unrelated things. Think about it <sigh> --184.21.215.174 (talk) 08:18, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Again, we as editors cannot introduce new facts, even if correct, into articles, we have to use what sources say. Sources say the game uses bloom lighting, and even if you feel there's only one application of it, that's not appropriate to include, particularly since its clear by common sense there is some bloom lighting in the game. But arguably the picture used doesn't appear to have obvious bloom lighting, which is why I changed it to "soft lighting" which, again, is still sourced, and that's definitely in the picture. And just because the rendering tricks used in a ten-year old game can be easily done by yourself doesn't nullify that at the time, that stuff was revolutionary. There's also no requirement that captions should only be about one thing, particularly with non-free media. If it suits multiple purposes, we use it for multiple purposes. --MASEM (t) 13:46, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
For the record, my original intention was to make the caption appear more professional. After years of reading Time I've never seen an image with a caption touching on two unrelated things. What was meant by "soft light" was unclear. Taken literally games always included soft lights, because hard lights are more difficult to do. And there is no grounds for Ico's presentation being influential, as there is still after so many years no modern game that looks anything like Ico. There might be some low budget games, but the only game that really looks like Ico is probably SOTC. And to a lesser extent something like King's Field IV. It's just a baseless claim not backed up by the sources (which was not originally there)
Of course I could not have imagined that the caption was a thin justification for having an image at all! Wikipedia turns off so many people by making so little sense and having no mechanism to police its marauders. I only started editing lately because my IP address scheme has changed. So I do not feel so naked; as in carrying every change you've ever made on your sleeve. Yikes! --184.21.215.174 (talk) 02:34, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

I am pretty sure the "influence" line can only refer to bloom lighting. There is none in the image. The following image found in one of the sources (that mentions the influence of bloom effects) is better: http://www.1up.com/media/01/0/4/2/lg/072.jpg <img src="http://www.1up.com/media/01/0/4/2/lg/072.jpg" /> however to say that Ico influenced games with respect to bloom is ridiculous. It was just the first or one of the first games to be able to pull it off. Largely due to the rest of the game being pretty simple, and probably the PS2 had some exotic hardware for the time. I would be shocked if bloom effects had not been in use in CGI for a long time. It's even visible in the ancient mockups the designer did for Ico that can be found on the HD remaster discs as extras now that I think about it. It's strange putting so much time and energy into expunging something. I gotta give up now--184.21.215.174 (talk) 03:11, 30 August 2012 (UTC)