Talk:Illinois Institute of Technology

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Former good article Illinois Institute of Technology was one of the good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
Date Process Result
March 18, 2006 Good article nominee Listed
April 9, 2006 Featured article candidate Not promoted
May 26, 2007 Good article reassessment Delisted
Current status: Delisted good article
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e·h·w·Stock post message.svg To-do:
  • References, references, references.
  • Campuses - Flesh out each campus into paragraphs more than just a listing. Main Campus will obviously be the largest, and could feasibly absorb the architecture discussion since it is unique to Main. A new campus map has been developed and could be used to better show the buildings anyhow. Downtown Campus would be short, as would ID, since Kent and ID have articles. An article or stub would be added for Stuart.
  • Academic Units - There is definietly a better way to do this. Perhaps just listing the colleges/institutes would be sufficient, with an accompanying paragraph or two describing the programs offered. Links galore here to department websites.
  • History - Today section needs cleaning up. Would be nice to have articles dedicated to Armour and Lewis, but maybe later.
  • Sports - Needs tons of work. History of athletics could be interesting, as well as brief description/list of current teams.
  • Noted Faculty/Alumni - Not sure how to handle these. Many of these have their own articles, though the status of "noted" for some is debatable. Prose paragraphs for each group could get dry fast unless they were limited to the very most notable. The categories can take care of link the rest to the article.
Need to add summary paragraphs of the most notable alumni to this article (full list appears in a separate article).
  • IITRI - Mysteries... 20 floors underground underground tunnel to Phi Kappa Sigma house.

IITRI Rumors[edit]

I'm kind of curious about what kind of rumors are there about IITRI. I guess we could list them here, seeing how they're rumors and not verified facts about IIT. Maybe if we get a list, we can see if we can verify them. One thing I highly think is false is the idea that there's a tunnel from IITRI to the Skull's (Phi Kappa Sigma) house. Rockmusic389 09:22, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Rumors aren't very useful; they're just rumors. However, there are an awful lot of tunnels running around campus-- but none, AFAIK, that go to the frat houses. One can walk from Alumni to Life Sciences without going outdoors, though. siafu 14:25, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Reorganization[edit]

The page is getting too large to not have a contents, thus I have reorganized it so much more content can be added in an orderly manner. This will hopefully bring the page more in line with other large articles for universities. Anyone with formatting or wiki-type changes please feel free - I'm not an expert at this yet.

Duncanr, December 4, 2005

Noted people[edit]

To make this as diplomatic as possible, I will only be adding people that have Wikipedia articles to the noted people lists. Others that should be added can be, but articles should be written about them as well so that the community can better choose who is "noted."

Duncanr 20:22, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Steps forward[edit]

I can see this article becoming a featured article, and I think that's going to be my new goal. The first step, I think, is to fix all the redlinks in the article, even if we just put a stub there. I have some pictures from my visit a couple weeks ago that I may be able to upload, and students or Chicagoland residents could certainly take and add some more. In addition, the references section should be significantly expanded and cleaned up. I've nominated this article to be a good article; let's see how that goes. I certainly encourage anyone with information to add to do so; any grammar and copyedit fixes, if need be, can be performed later, or as we go. Onward to glory! —BorgHunter ubx (talk) 16:21, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like a plan to me. The biggest problem might be with the references. Most of the information I've added comes from conversations with the IIT archivist, research through old IIT yearbooks, newspapers, etc., and a couple key conversations with alumni and former president John Rettaliata. They're probably the best sources you can find, but can make documentation difficult. Other than that, though, if there is anything in particular that needs done, I'm available to do quite a bit. I also have a ton of photos, and can take plenty more if particular shots are needed. -Duncanr 17:52, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps an IIT People page should be created, as many of these pages exist for other universities. Certainly the list of faculty, alumni, and historical figures could be increased and more articles could be written about these people (I will try to begin an expansion of this myself). -ttron
A "People from IIT" category already exists (couldn't get it to link..hmm...go to Mies van der Rohe and you'll see it), as well as an "Illinois Institute of Technology" category. Neither are kept very well (not sure when/who started them, but not all the people in the Noted ____ areas are even listed). -Duncanr 15:14, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Category:People from IIT. (Edit the page to see how I did that.) Incidentally, I started Category:Illinois Institute of Technology only recently. —BorgHunter ubx (talk) 15:36, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I added them all to the category, but I'm thinking it might be better to split it the way it's usually done into Category:IIT alumni and Category:IIT faculty. Any opinions on that? siafu 15:48, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Sounds like a great idea. —BorgHunter ubx (talk) 15:50, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Addendum: Having spent a great deal of time over at CFD, I can definitively say that all cases of "IIT" in the title are going to need to be changed to "Illinois Institute of Technology". siafu 15:51, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Alright, I moved everyone to either Category:Illinois Institute of Technology alumni or Category:Illinois Institute of Technology faculty. This left only Lewis Collens (this is only a one-sentence stub, btw, anyone want to expand?) and Henry Townley Heald, so I just bumped them up to Category:Illinois Institute of Technology until we have more articles on presidents of the institute to merit their own category. siafu 16:52, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Henry Townley Heald could be a very large article - he orchestrated the Armour-Lewis merger, but then left IIT to become Chancellor of NYU and President of the Ford Foundation (for which he made the cover of Time Magazine), so we could add more IIT details but leave it a stub until his other accomplishments could be added. Lewis Collens is still very much alive, so a semi-complete biography should be easy. -Duncanr 23:46, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Public safety bit[edit]

"public safety bit useless (trust me as an IIT student -- they aren't worth mentioning)"

I'm not certain about that. Regardless of if they're useful or not, the university certainly seems to hype them up a bit. Surely that means they warrant at least a sentence or two? —BorgHunter ubx (talk) 13:12, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree, especially with the reputation and history of the neighborhood, the safety issues should be included. Maybe this would be a good place for a point/counterpoint setup? That seems to be the best way to deal with dueling opinions on importance. University pages could be riddled with these if they got out of hand, but it might be worth a try. -Duncanr 16:31, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Absent verifiable sources, however, we don't have a counterpoint to put up. siafu 16:33, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Okay, since so far we agree that at least something belongs there, I re-added the text. It can be trimmed/mutilated at anyone's leisure, though I would discourage deleting it, preferring to encourage alteration. —BorgHunter ubx (talk) 20:51, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
If public safety is to be mentioned (in any detail at all), then perhaps the many other staff departments, student organizations, registrars, bursars, etc., etc., etc. that are all equally important (if not moreso) to IIT should also have a small paragraph. This kind of entry will just clog up the IIT entry. I don't really think the university does hype up Public Safety much except for maybe during orientation when they think all the students are scared of the neighborhood. -ttron
Well, why not? When they get too unwieldy, they could be split into separate articles as necessary. Besides, safety of the campus is certainly relevant information. —BorgHunter ubx (talk) 15:50, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

New External Link[edit]

Can anyone read the external link added by Manop: สถาบันเทคโนโลยีอิลลินอยส์ I tried copy and pasting it, but just got a site in the same language as the link called "www.FTAdigest.com" I was going to make sure it has some relevance to this article, but I'm limited to English. -Duncanr 00:59, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I can't read it, but I'm rather certain that that is Thai. siafu 01:13, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
I just looked at the edit in question; it's just an interwiki link to the Thai wikipedia (the link goes in the "in other languages" box on the left). Presumably, it's to the article there on IIT. siafu 01:15, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Ah. I was hoping it was just an interwiki. I guess Firefox tried to translate the characters and got to a different site. Safari just said it couldn't find it. Eh...no harm, no foul.

Campus Size fight[edit]

Main Campus roughly stretches from 30th (3000 S) to 35th (3500 S), and from Metra's Rock Island Line (about 90 W) to Michigan (100 E), but De La Salle Institute sits between 34th and 35th and Wabash and Michigan, taking up about a half a block, and the athletic fields actually go a little north of where 30th would be if it crossed all the way to Michigan, so I changed the size to about ten blocks since that's about as close as we can get without measuring. -Duncanr 21:18, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

The campus is actually more than two blocks wide, though. Campus starts on the West at the Metra line. The first street is Federal Street, then east of that is Dearborn Street, followed by State Street, then Wabash Avenue, and it ends at Michigan Avenue. Dearborn and Wabash are very small on the IIT campus, but they do represent Chicago city blocks. Therefore, starting at Federal St., campus is four blocks wide. The campus takes up all of the space from 31st St. to 34th St., making it four blocks from North to South, so this part of campus is 16 city blocks. Past that, Stuart, Keating, and athletic fields stretch to 30th St., adding another four blocks. On the West side of campus, IITRI and the surrounding facilities span the area between 34th and 35th Streets between State and Federal, adding another two blocks. Therefore, the total block size of IIT is about 22 blocks. This is only questionable because some of the streets either don't exist (34th Street) or barely exit (32nd/Usufruct Ave, Dearborn, and Wabash), but these do correspond to Chicago city block sizes. It's hard to argue that from 33rd to 35th Street is not two blocks. This is kind of silly, though, because IIT is measured in actual acres, which is displayed at the top of the page. -ttron

Dearborn, Federal, and Wabash do not represent full city blocks (i.e. "100" on the address system, or 1/8 mile). These are extensions of streets in the Loop, which are much closer together than standard blocks elsewhere in the city. As mentioned by Duncanr, the Metra line is at about 90 W (LaSalle is 100 W, right next to it), and it's a full city block to State St., and then another to Michigan Avenue. So, the fullest east-west extent is two city blocks. Fortunately for us, on the south side, east-west streets are numbered the same as their "hundred" (i.e. 35th St. = 3500 S), so it's easy to see that 30th to 35th is five city blocks in length. siafu 00:34, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

FAC[edit]

I've added this article to be a cadidate for featured article status. I've watched this article grow and take shape, and I believe it is ready to hold up to the scrutiny. Chuck 12:37, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Not a chance, no. I don't even think it's quite ready for a peer review, which is the first step toward FAC. —BorgHunter ubx (talk) 18:10, 3 April 2006 (UTC)


Whoo! First Vandalism![edit]

Now that the article has been nominated FA (albeit a little prematurely) and had its first vandalism today, we've hit two of the major milestones in every good wiki article. BTW - 216.47.* is one of IIT's IP ranges, so that was no doubt a current student, possibly staff (though doubtful any staff or faculty would do something that juvenile). -Duncanr 18:12, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Next Phase[edit]

Well, I wasn't optimistic about the FAC, and the objections did bring up good suggestions. Since this page is now maintained by a few of us instead of just me, I'd like to throw out some ideas for the next phase and see what everyone thinks.

  • Campuses - Flesh out each campus into paragraphs more than just a listing. Main Campus will obviously be the largest, and could feasibly absorb the architecture discussion since it is unique to Main. A new campus map has been developed and could be used to better show the buildings anyhow. Downtown Campus would be short, as would ID, since Kent and ID have articles. An article or stub would be added for Stuart.
  • Academic Units - There is definietly a better way to do this. Perhaps just listing the colleges/institutes would be sufficient, with an accompanying paragraph or two describing the programs offered. Links galore here to department websites.
  • History - Today section needs cleaning up. Would be nice to have articles dedicated to Armour and Lewis, but maybe later.
  • Sports - Needs tons of work. History of athletics could be interesting, as well as brief description/list of current teams.
  • Noted Faculty/Alumni - Not sure how to handle these. Many of these have their own articles, though the status of "noted" for some is debatable. Prose paragraphs for each group could get dry fast unless they were limited to the very most notable. The categories can take care of link the rest to the article.

Those are my proposals. The article is in tremendously better shape than it was 6 months ago, but there's much work left. -Duncanr 04:33, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good. I'll probably work a bit more than I have here, now that my previous pet FAC, Rush (band), has reached featured. The one thing I would like to add to the list is references. An article this size needs at least 30 or so to get anywhere near featured, preferably more. 30 references from reliable sources. Not a trivial task for a university that is not very high-profile outside of Illinois. —BorgHunter ubx (talk) 04:42, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
There are several books covering IIT in its early phase as the institute of design, given its connection to the Bauhaus. Unfortunately, I don't have access to them at home, but I imagine Galvin would have everything. siafu 05:15, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
I have plenty of access to Galvin stuff, and would love to read some books regarding this. Do you know the titles of any of them? Chuck 05:19, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Once you get them, there's a wiki format to cite references in. If you're not familiar with it, I could help you out. —BorgHunter ubx (talk) 05:57, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

GA Re-Review and In-line citations[edit]

Members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles are in the process of doing a re-review of current Good Article listings to ensure compliance with the standards of the Good Article Criteria. (Discussion of the changes and re-review can be found here). A significant change to the GA criteria is the mandatory use of some sort of in-line citation (In accordance to WP:CITE) to be used in order for an article to pass the verification and reference criteria. Currently this article does not include in-line citations. It is recommended that the article's editors take a look at the inclusion of in-line citations as well as how the article stacks up against the rest of the Good Article criteria. GA reviewers will give you at least a week's time from the date of this notice to work on the in-line citations before doing a full re-review and deciding if the article still merits being considered a Good Article or would need to be de-listed. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us on the Good Article project talk page or you may contact me personally. On behalf of the Good Articles Project, I want to thank you for all the time and effort that you have put into working on this article and improving the overall quality of the Wikipedia project. LuciferMorgan 03:03, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Brothel laws ban sororities?[edit]

Snopes took this one on, they claim it's an urban legend. http://www.snopes.com/college/halls/brothel.asp --Dwedit 00:35, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

They claim it's an urban legend because it very obviously is one. siafu 01:03, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Good Article Review[edit]

I have nominated Illinois Institute of Technology for WP:GA/R due to inadequate referencing. I hope the article gets the attention it deserves during this process to retain its quality rating. Please see discussions at Wikipedia:Good_article_review#Illinois Institute of Technology. I also hope someone will add an {{ArticleHistory}} template to this page. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 17:14, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

The results of the Good Article Review were to Speedy Delist the article. That has been done. To see the results of this discussion see: Wikipedia:Good article review/Archive 20. Please improve this article and renominate again when it meets all of the GA Criteria as spelled out at WP:WIAGA. Happy editing.--Jayron32|talk|contribs 01:31, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Illinois Tech[edit]

The introduction contains the following passage:

During the 1950s and 1960s, the nickname was actually more prevalent than "IIT." This was reflected by the Chicago Transit Authority's elevated train station at 35th and State being named "Tech-35th" instead of its current name, "35th-Bronzeville-IIT."

Is this even true? Do we have a source of some kind with the old name? siafu 16:11, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Criticism[edit]

You don't seem to understand how Wikipedia works. I am a regular user, and thus have no authority to "allow" or "disallow" anything. Further, I have no problem with criticism, but just because you call it that doesn't make it so. You insert links to a foulmouthed, uninformative wiki and a forum with zero activity, you do so inexplicably under the "Notable Faculty" section, and call it criticism. That's not criticism, it's an attempt to drive traffic to a website, and is totally unconstructive to building an informative Wikipedia entry. Try being constructive, and if all you want is a flame war, stick to your empty forum. - Iithhs

First of all, I do not run that site. It is a group founded by IIT students to help make IIT better. Clearly there is value in that for everyone. Furthermore, I did not even create the criticism section, but I do see value in it, and it having a place on the IIT article. Move the criticism section to another area within the article if you so chose. If you stop and read both the forum and the wiki there are indeed value in both. The forum, while partially dead, does advertise on campus and hold meetings. They also have a fairly large wiki. The other wiki, if you are able to get past the opening page, has true value as well. Read the criticism section of that if you cannot see it at first. They make good arguments. The only way to make the university better is to help point out if flaws and fix them. The students have been trying to do so while the facility seem set on not assisting. Clearly that is the point of both websites, to improve the university. It is as relevant to the article as any of its other content. It is a voice of the students. - AntiZwinglisjubilee —Preceding unsigned comment added by AntiZwinglisjubilee (talkcontribs) 21:37, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Notice that the links to the ChangeIIT forum and wiki have not been touched? That is because those websites are constructive and informative, run by a legitimate student organization whose members are known. The Shiity forum is empty, and the wiki is little more than a foulmouthed, childish site full of defamation and libel. It is neither constructive nor informative, and they do not make "good arguments." If the site's contributors were interested in offering constructive criticism or making the university better, they would not behave the way they do, and the site editors should know that they put themselves in legal peril by maintaining a site that engages in libel. -- Iithhs (talk) 21:52, 15 December 2008 (UTC)


I will accept whatever the third parties decide upon, but I urge them to read the following.

ChangeIIT has done good for IIT and they still advertise on campus. Whether or not their forums are dead, they still contain much information which is still relevant.

As for the shiity.com, you still don't see that it is more than a "foulmouthed childish" site, when is is. Advisors (see http://www.shiity.com/wiki/User:Bauerm) and employees of IIT (see http://www.shiity.com/wiki/Mattox_Beckman) have been found posting on there. Furthermore, students use it to outreach (see http://www.shiity.com/wiki/Social_Retards). Also, most of what is on there, is cited, or from first hand experiences. Granted, it doesn't have the cleanest language but it is written but a bunch of college students and censorship is not their major concern. The points they make are one that directly impact the university as a whole. Whether their words are polished or not they still convey the same meaning.

Both directly relate to the IIT article by providing first hand views as well as efforts to move forward while identifying the good and the bad.

And with that, my argument is over and I await 3P decisions.--AntiZwinglisjubilee (talk) 02:43, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

A formal complaint has been placed with the Better Business Bureau of Chicago and the Illinois State attorney general about extraneous charges, breach of contract, malicious treatment, and general disorganization in the graduate program at IIT. Students beware of your rights. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.208.18.51 (talk) 18:32, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Searching news sites, I have found no record of such a complaint. Simply submitting a complaint does not mean it is founded or notable. --Odie5533 (talk) 22:15, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Page views graph[edit]

IIT page views.svg

I made a graph of the page views for this article. I thought it would provide more information, but the views seem pretty static. Any thoughts on what the jump at the beginning of 2008 was? --Odie5533 (talk) 23:33, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Multiple Issues[edit]

This article was recently tagged for multiple issues. Although I have not combed through every line of the article, I do not find the article to "contain original research or unverifiable claims", "be compromised by peacock terms", or "written like an advertisement and needs to be rewritten from a neutral point of view". Although it is debatable, I also don't find the article to be lacking in third party sources. When I compared it to articles of other universities, I found similar ratios of university produced information to third party citations. None of the IIT citations are disputed and are unlikely to be, so I don't believe the tag is warranted. Any other opinions or specifies for the problems I've mentioned would be appreciated. --Odie5533 (talk) 04:21, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

There were some "peacock terms" which I removed, but not very many. I have been going through the information and adding references. I think that will take care of the "unverifiable claims" issue. Many of the universities have about 100 different references. Gathering information from many different sources will definately help our article. I also think there should be a research section --Mvbcps (talk) 01:33, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Involvement with communtiy[edit]

At the model city exhibit from the chicago architecture foundation, they have a little part about how IIT and other community leaders on the south side rebuilt much of the area. During this, IIT acquired much of the property they were rebuilding (I don't know why the exhibit didn't call this pure gentrification), and so I went here looking for the name of the community group (well, kind of community, the exhibit said they held no respect for community leaders, just urban planners).

There's no mention in this article, so does anyone watching this know what I'm talking about? http://www.chicagomodelcity.org/ talks about it under the "New" section at the bottom, but much less critically of IIT then the real exhibit. --Jj110888 (talk) 00:34, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Shimer and VanDerCook[edit]

I took out from the last sentence in the campus section the following: ", significantly diversifying campus life", as it implies that not only does cross-registration actually happen to a significant degree, but the results somehow "diversify" campus life. In my experience, cross-registration is basically non-existent. I myself tried to register for a course at Shimer, but found that not only were the class schedules completely different from IIT's (i.e., different time blocks), making it nearly impossible to be enrolled in both and still attend classes at both, but there was a ridiculous amount of paperwork involved, including getting a special exception from the dean of my department (MMAE). In my four years at IIT, I never met a single individual who was cross-registered at either Shimer or Van der Cook and IIT, and I don't know how just having those students around "diversifies" anything at all. siafu (talk) 18:10, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

While I did not contribute the text in question, it seems a fair statement. I think with cross-registration and shared dormitories, the two colleges, which offer different curriculum from IIT's, do add to the academic, intellectual, and to some extent social diversity of campus life. Even if there is not much cross-registration (I'm checking on the actual numbers for that, but I personally know students who have cross-registered), doesn't the presence of students from the music college and the "Great Books" college alone help to diversify campus life? Diversity can mean many things, and should probably be defined in this context to be clearer. I'll come back with some numbers on cross-registration when I get them. Iithhs (talk) 20:58, 23 February 2010 (UTC)