Talk:Imran Anwar

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Reads like an advertisement[edit]

OK, I was being sarcastic in my comment saying I could claim I'd introduced the Internet and e-mail to Denmark.

But the truth is that this article reads like an advertisement. It reads like it was written by Mr. Anwar and his public relations person and his family. There is a total lack of the kind of tone one gets when reading an article written by people who have objective and independent knowledge and views on a subject.

I'm going to replace the advertisement tag. It's not like I'm messing with the text of the article or adding critical information, I'm just trying to indicate that there is a lack of objectivity here, and Wikipedia readers deserve to be given that information.

Thanks for your understanding. --RenniePet 08:25, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

This is an advertisement - why not accept that it be labeled as such?[edit]

Some points, not that my opinion makes much difference:

- I asked my wife to read the article just to get a "second opinion", and she said, "that's not an article, that's a CV". (What Americans call a resumé, I believe.)

- I know a little bit about the history and functioning of the Internet, and the idea that Mr. Anwar could be "co-founder and co-owner of Pakistan's .PK top level domain (TLD)" is ludicrous. Read the article about TLDs. All the countries in the world were assigned TLDs by a central authority, and nobody "owns" them. In Denmark, and, as far as I know, in all civilized countries, a non-profit organization administers the country's TLD, and various commercial companies sprang up to sell and administer the domain names based on that TLD.

It is good to see how much all of you have improved the basic entry I had created. I am sorry that it was not as wikified as it should have been. But, sorry. friends, what is ludicrous is someone assuming they know the history of the Internet just because they know that an organization called IANA exists. The domain names structure was actually mostly managed by one person, the late Jon Postel. At that time there was no registered .PK top level domain and there was no internet or email provider in the whole country. Imran became the founder and first provider of email in Pakistan and .PK was registered to him and his friend Asher and his brother in Lahore he ran it for a long time. My family and I were able to communicate by email for the first time from USA to Pakistan thanks to them. If the original wiki entry was not well written I take blame for that, sorry. Unfortunately I am the one who did not have much personal info on the subject and emailed him asking him to update the entry not knowing my doing him a "favor" would cause him to be accused of conflict of interest. No one paid me to write the article so hope that puts it to rest. Cheers.

- There is lots of information about Mr. Anwar in the article, but most of it is not confirmed by reliable sources. That's not totally problematic, it just means that the article needs to be tagged to indicate it contains lots of unsourced material. I've written an article like that myself, Lenses for SLR and DSLR cameras, and I have no problem with it being tagged as unsourced.

So what is the problem with the article being taged as an advertisement? Surely Mr. Anwar can take a "I don't care" attitude to an article about him on Wikipedia, if he's so successful and well-known and dynamic?

Anyway, I'm going to refer this dispute to the administrators here at Wikipedia. (After I figure out how to do that - never been in this situation before.) --RenniePet 08:28, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Forgot to mention that this article has several times been edited by a Wikipedia user with user id User talk:Imrananwar, who is presumably Mr. Anwar himself. If so, then this is considered improper - a violation of "conflict of interest" rules here at Wikipedia. --RenniePet 08:37, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Third opinion: Agreed. I've gone ahead and marked this article as having multiple issues. In addition to WP:COI, it does indeed read like a resume (so I marked it with autobiography). And since its style of referencing does not really work here, that needs to be improved. RenniePet, if you'd like, I can help you in the cleanup of this article. — HelloAnnyong [ t · c ] 15:20, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Thank you, HelloAnnyong, I'm glad I wasn't completely off base in my opinion.
As for doing a cleanup on this article, I'm afraid I'm not at all interested. The background story (if you feel like hearing it), is that I never heard of Mr. Anwar before a couple of days ago when he posted a link to his blog on the Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy page, which happens to be on my watch list. I read his blog article, actually kind of liked it, and then looked him up on Wikipedia and found this article, and thought, "this sounds like he's written it himself". So I looked at the History, and saw that someone had placed an "advert" tag on the page, and then someone else had removed it. That irritated me, so I restored the "advert" tag, and it was promptly removed and I was accused of vandalizing the page!
This article should presumably be rewritten by someone who does know a bit about Mr. Anwar but is in no way associated with him. --RenniePet 20:03, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Alright, fair enough. I'm going to gradually work on this, then. I went ahead and changed the first paragraph to accurately reflect the information in the links given with as little POV as possible, and will continue to do that. — HelloAnnyong [ t · c ] 03:41, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
What do you think of my edits? — HelloAnnyong [ t · c ] 04:54, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
I think they're fine - although I'm no authority. My Wikipedia experience is rather limited.
Is Mr. Anwar well-known in the USA? (Are you in the USA - your user page is one of the most minimal I've ever seen :-)   --RenniePet 11:11, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Further edits[edit]

I've marked this page as suffering from WP:PEACOCK, so try to keep the additions clean and NPOV. Also, please check your links. I reverted the first edit to "Imran helped start the first ISP in Pakistan." The source says, "He is responsible for providing Internet based services with IMRAN.PK in Pakistan as the first Internet Service Provider there." That says nothing about email. Perhaps I've oversimplified, but we have to go based on what the sources say. — HelloAnnyong [ t · c ] 18:43, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Background[edit]

It is good to see how much all of you have improved the basic entry I had created. I am sorry that it was not as wikified as it should have been. But, sorry my friends, not being offensive but what is ludicrous is someone assuming they know the history of the Internet just because they know that an organization called IANA or Network Solutions exists today. In the early days the domain names structure was actually mostly managed by one person the late Jon Postel. At that time there was no registered .PK top level domain and there was no internet or email provider in the whole country of Pakistan. Imran became the founder and first provider of email in Pakistan and .PK was registered to him and his friend Asher and his brother in Lahore he ran it for a long time. My family and I were able to communicate by email for the first time from USA to Pakistan thanks to them. If the original wiki entry was not well written I take blame for that, sorry. Unfortunately I am the one who did not have detailed personal info and media links for him so I emailed him twice asking him to update or correct the entry not knowing my doing him a "favor" would cause him to be accused of conflict of interest. No one paid me to write the article so hope that puts it to rest. In answer to another question he is known in the United States from being on TV and radio. Cheers. Myonelifetolive 00:35, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Inclusion of autobiography[edit]

Okay, I'll admit that it doesn't suffer from WP:PEACOCK anymore (or perhaps not as much). But it is still an autobiography, and it has been edited by a user with a WP:COI. Surely you can't tell me that the edits by User:Imrananwar weren't made by the subject himself. I'm adding autobiography back, because I believe that the article is still slightly NPOV. I need to think about how to make the page more NPOV. — HelloAnnyong [ t · c ] 16:27, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

References[edit]

Alright, guys. Let's stop making ridiculous claims like "Imran founded the Internet in Pakistan as the first ISP in Pakistan." I believe that the source on that reference, [1], to be unacceptable on the grounds that it's published on his website, and has no other source besides that. As per WP:BLP, "Without reliable third-party sources, a biography will violate the No original research and Verifiability policies, and could lead to libel claims." Until you can find a third-party source - that is, one that's not Anwar's own website - you can't cite it.

As to the Chuck Anderson reference: first, cite it properly. Secondly, do not link to Amazon; it's a book, so you should use proper citations for it. Still, I'm dubious about the reference.

Please: before any further edits are made, let us discuss them on here! That's why this page is here. — HelloAnnyong [ t · c ] 04:13, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Further edits[edit]

I moved the paragraph about him starting the ISP down to the Professional life section. It's more appropriate down there. I also removed the fluff line about his professional life "melding" things; it's completely unnecessary. — HelloAnnyong [ t · c ] 13:16, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

I've tried to rewrite the bit about the .pk ccTLD, as I do have some technical knowledge about this stuff. But the whole story sounds pretty weird, but, as they say, reality often is stranger than fiction.
Hope you don't mind I got you involved in this, HelloAnnyong. Neither my Wikipedia skills/experience nor my interest are up to me doing much with this page, other than flagging it as having problems. --RenniePet 14:10, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
It's no problem. Admittedly, that portion of the page is troubling to me, but my Wiki skills aren't sufficient enough to be able to come up with an eloquent way of rewriting it. — HelloAnnyong [ t · c ] 14:20, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Regarding 199.72.198.194's edits (here): I've re-added the missing citations template, as well as two fact tags. Unless you can cite some references on those comments, they're unreferenced. — HelloAnnyong [ t · c ] 03:50, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Once again...[edit]

This article is a mess. It's pretty obvious that Anwar is editing his own article here, given the number of unsourced edits about his life and accomplishments. I think someone else needs to trim this page down; I've been involved with it for far too long. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 19:51, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I've marked a bunch of stuff with fact tags. If no sources are given for those in the next few weeks, I'm going to just remove those sentences outright. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 19:57, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Accusations of slander, etc[edit]

68.156.43.202 (talk · contribs) keeps removing the autobiography template on the grounds that it's "making unsubstantiated accusations about any particular person making edits is inappropriate even if not slanderous." Given that Imrananwar (talk · contribs) is almost certainly the person who this article is about, and the fact that Anwar has edited this page multiple times, I don't think the tag is inappropriate. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 00:15, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


Updating this page and fixing some grammer errors[edit]

Made some minor grammer/spelling updates to the page. Verified sources regarding cited information such as appearance on television and radio. This page seems to have a lot of citations than most biography pages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WorldPresident (talkcontribs) 05:40, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not for resumes or autobiographies...[edit]

...Can we make the article sound less like one? I mean really, one of the references is his LinkedIn profile! And many of the other references are from his own website. 76.189.121.35 (talk) 17:55, 18 August 2013 (UTC)