Talk:Imre Nagy

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...[edit]

'pronounced "nadj"' Isn't it pronounced something between "nodge" and "nod-yuh"?

Somebody stole the text from the CNN Profile!

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.war/kbank/profiles/nagy/

Well I've just checked your reference and can't find ANY text which has been lifted from the CNN profile. -- Arwel 10:23, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

As both pieces will make use of the same background information, and given the nature of English grammar there will naturally be a certain amount of duplication.

Curiosity - why does the bell include 'I chase the lightning'? Jackiespeel 21:24, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

what happened to the old pictures?

Pronounciation[edit]

I believe it is pronounced Najj, as in rhyming with Hajj. 86.135.205.81 22:45, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

"gy" is part of the Hungarian (Magyar) alphabet and is considered to be one letter. The descriptions above of how it is pronounced are more or less accurate. P-

Maybe someone who can pronounce his name well will record it? It's quite a difficult name, so I think it would be highly desireable.

Pronounciation of the Hungarian voice "gy" is similar as "dy" in Rudyard or "du" in Duke. Vastort 07:10, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

In IPA characters, it's: nɒɟ. "Nodge" (to rhyme with lodge) is close enough, though to be more accurate you'd have to replace the zh sound at the end with a y- sound. Try saying "Nod your head". That's very close indeed to saying "Nagy ahead". (nb The British short "o" vowel is very close to the Hungarian "a" vowel. However, the American short "o" vowel is somewhat different, so Americans may have more difficulty with this pronunciation.) 82.46.181.57 (talk) 20:42, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Gossips and rumours which are not true[edit]

I cut the following section from this article:

In 1918, he became a member of the detachment that guarded the imprisoned ex-emperor Nicholas II and his family in Ekaterinburg. According to documents of the Revolutionary Staff of the Ural District of the Cheka, he was member of the execution squad that murdered them on July 17, 1918.<ref>Heresch, Elisabeth. "Nikolaus II. Feigheit, Lüge und Verrat". F.A.Herbig Verlagsbuchhandlung, Munich, 1992.</ref> The seven soldiers in the execution squad were Hungarians, prisoners-of-war who didn't speak Russian. They had joined the 1st Kamishlov Regiment of the Red Army. They were chosen because the local Cheka feared that Russian soldiers would not shoot at the Tsar and his family.

This is not true. At the time of the execution Nagy was thousands of kilometers far away near Lake Baykal. The whole conception of the above section (executing the czar by seven Hungarians) is a nonsense. The Bolsheviks would have never entrusted this task to foreigners. See [1] (Hungarian text) As Nagy was able to return Hungary only in 1921, the following sentence was also false and therefore I deleted it:

Nagy returned to Hungary after World War I and served in the short-lived Bolshevik government of Béla Kun

Another gossip is that Nagy was an agent of the Soviet secret service OGPU and later NKVD. This rumour, also with the murdering of the czar and his family was created by Károly Grósz in 1989, the time before Nagy was reburied and rehabilitated. As Grósz was an old-liner communist, he wanted to discredit the leader of the revolutionary government. (However, Grósz regarded 1956 as counter-revolution!) The fact that Nagy survived the 1930s in the Soviet Union does not mean that he was a spy or an agent.

Vastort 07:56, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


I repeat it again: Nagy did not take part in the short-lived Bolshevik government of Béla Kun. See list of people's commissars at [2]. I also checked it in the very best volume on Hungarian ministers (József Bölöny: Magyarország kormányai 1848-1987 [The governments of Hungary from 1848 to 1987], published by the Hungarian Academy of Sciences [MTA] in Budapest in 1987.). (Later editions are also available). Nagy's biographer, János Rainer writes that Nagy returned to Hungary only in 1921. See János Rainer: Nagy Imre. 1956-os Intézet, Budapest, 1996. Vastort 21:07, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Vivos voco, Mortuos plango, Fulgura frango[edit]

"I call the living, I mourn the dead, I master the lightning." This interesting comment is included in entry, but is commented out from appearing. Is there a legit source evidencing that these words appear at Nagy's grave? If my googling serves me, this is some sort of traditional marking for a tribute in the form of a bell (which itself calls, mourns, and masters lighting)... Any more info on this? DBaba 03:24, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

There is a memorial bell with an associated to that effect "close by" IN's grave. Jackiespeel (talk) 14:39, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

NKVD informer[edit]

On the subject of whether or not Nagy worked as an informant for the NKVD during his time in Moscow, I would like to note that the Charles Gati book that is already being used as a reference at another point in the article also makes that claim. I don't think the issue is as settled as some would like us to believe. According to Gati, there exists at least three handwritten papers of Nagy's denouncing around 200 people to the NKVD. Regardless of whether or not the claims turn out to be 100% accurate, they seem to definately be more than just an attempt by one man to discredit Nagy after the fact. The references already cited in this article show that there is far from consensus the NKVD issue was simply a smear campaign. On Thermonuclear War (talk) 14:25, 8 April 2008 (UTC)