Talk:Ina Fried

This page has been mentioned by a media organization. The mention is in: Jackson West (22 August 2008). "Transgender journalist caught in Wikipedia edit war". Valleywag. http://valleywag.com/5040535/transgender-journalist-caught-in-wikipedia-edit-war.  Ina Fried (22 August 2008). "Wikipedia changes my gender more than I do". Cnet.com. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10023156-56.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20.

Name

Why does the article refer to Ina's former name? Transsexuals in general don't get any happier if people keep reminding them of their previous gender. X10 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 13:44, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I would argue that as she was a journo pre-transition, using male/birth name, it then becomes tricky to find any of her work from before 2003. Which could equally be construed as being unfair on her. Her CNet byline doesn't seem to make any bones about the situation (omitting the old name there for reasons of brevity and general irrelevance - you don't see married journos referring their maiden name, at least not for more than a few months, do you?)... in fact the 'maiden name' thing may well apply here. You could exclude prior names of people who have been through a messy divorce on the same basis, couldn't you? So long as there's no serious objection by the person in question I don't see why so many people have to get needlessly over-defensive on her behalf. Isn't it just as offensive to assume you know how someone else feels and thinks and act for them without consulting first? 193.63.174.10 (talk) 16:30, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

This article has been the target of repeated vandalism attempts. There are a couple of us trying to revert these efforts, but things get missed. As stated above, the Manual of Style section MOS:IDENTITY states that articles referencing transgendered individuals should use the gender and name preferred and used by the individual. Some bigots cannot accept that. If you see where this or any other article is incorrect in this regard, you are free to edit it. (But check the Talk and History pages first, just to make sure.) Happy editing! TechBear (talk) 13:49, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I made one change. But if I'd be her, I would rather have the "personal" section removed also. X10 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 13:58, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

There is the issue that she was a noted blogger before her transition, and she has been very open about her change. Personally, I think the information in the lede was better, but not strongly enough to change it back. I do think the Personal section should remain, as it explains the change in by-line rather than leave people wondering if Ian's sister took over the blog. TechBear (talk) 14:06, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

OK, if she's been very open about her transition, than the section should stay. X10 (talk) 14:08, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

The controversy surrounding this article is now a bigger issue than the contents of the article, and this is doing damage to wikipedias reputation, see http://www.nu.nl/news.jsp?n=1715525&c=50&rss which has a title that roughly translates as 'wikipedia struggles with gender of journalist', currently the article has 'it' instead of 'she' all over it 81.207.119.78 (talk) 15:10, 25 August 2008 (UTC) Jacques Mattheij

That's not true, the article uses "she". (I am Dutch) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.226.205.4 (talk) 10:30, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

The article on nu.nl uses 'she', but the wikipedia article used 'it' at the time of my original comment, check the versioning system. 81.207.119.78 (talk) 21:26, 27 August 2008 (UTC) Jacques Mattheij

That seems to be the point of the vandalism: getting the article pulled entirely. I think it is time to request a semi-lock. TechBear (talk) 15:14, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't matter whether or not she chooses to be open about her past. I realize that transgendered and gay people are a very sensitive issue right now but we need to look at this issue from a different perspective. It doesn't matter whether or not someone wishes to cover something up about their past. If it is notable, it belongs on Wikipedia un-censored. 76.193.178.92 (talk) 21:34, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't agree. Caroline Cossey's career as a moviestar went down the drain when a British tabloid published about her past. If Wikipedia would have done the same if it had been around at the time, I don't know if I like wikipedia. X10 (talk) 00:28, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Why don't we just steal his/her passport and look what it says? (I really don't want to do that, it's just a joke ;-)) 212.187.44.27 (talk) 17:09, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, because that isn't what the manual of style says we use as the basis for the decision. The MoS says, the pronoun she uses to describe herself is the appropriate pronoun to use in the article about her.

It does not matter. If I were to suddenly dress like a woman, grow breasts, inject estrogen, and demand the everyone calls me a woman, would that make me female? Is long as he still has a penis and testicles, Ina Fried is a he. 71.35.31.23 (talk)

If you look up the article on Wendy Carlos, the person in question is referred to as "she", with birth name also posted. I assume it's any encyclopedia's goal to remain consistent, so there you have it. The Oiman (talk) 01:00, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

-FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 20:19, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Name again

Has she registered an objection to her former name being mentioned in the article? I ask because, when encountering the standard blurb at the end of an article written by her, she mentions her gender change but does not mention her former name -- which makes it difficult to look up older stories she had written.

It's mentioned in some of the article's references; it would seem to be a reasonable/useful/accurate thing to include in the article (especially because the relation between her old and new names is kind of clever) -- but only if she hasn't explicitly objected.--NapoliRoma (talk) 20:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

We have it in the infobox already and generally don't bend policies to placate a concern such as this. We don't go out of our way to hide or belabour the point. -- Banjeboi 01:46, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Oops, hadn't noticed it in the infobox -- thanks.--NapoliRoma (talk) 02:05, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

No problem, as the article grows and she discusses the issue as impacting her life it can be expanded. -- Banjeboi 02:38, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Should the first line not read: "Ina Fried (born Ian Fried..." just like other articles on individuals who have changed their names (for whatever reason)? i.e. "Johnny Vegas (born Michael Joseph Pennington..." Oosh (talk) 03:00, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

The Willies

In the 1991 film The Willies, there's a story with a boy who is played by actor Ian Fried, was he the same person as this Ian/Ina Fried? 87.194.8.180 (talk) 23:17, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

If you are willing ... perhaps write to Ina and see what the response is and let us know. Also is there a website home of the movie? -- Banjeboi 02:00, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

If you look up the Mathnet episode "Case of the Willing Parrot" on Youtube, you can see the same actor playing Walter Trepling. I'm pretty sure it's the same person. 142.162.152.186 (talk) 06:52, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Please Lock This Article

This article is continually plagued by vandals making vulgar comments. It really should be locked, so that only registered editors can change it. Otherwise the article is going to be prone to having offensive remarks on it, which remain in public view until they are discovered and reverted. Considering this is a BLP, those vulgar remarks should somehow be prevented.--Lester 07:52, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

The vandalism seems to be pretty infrequent to me - only very recent and easily dealt with so far -- Boing! said Zebedee 08:08, 16 April 2010 (UTC)