Talk:Incest

"Consensual" sibling incest

I feel this recently added section may need some consideration. First, it currently has no sources. Second, I am concerned that it might give a misleading impression of the matter to lay readers. While certain sexual activities fall within a normative range (show and tell, playing doctor), certain ones are innately considered abuse no matter how willing both parties may seem. Simply put, there are some things children do not do with out having it inappropriately introduced to them by an external source, and compliance and/or positive appraisal does not negate harmful psychological or neurological effects of the encounter. One source in the article already points out that adults who went through this are frequently have distorted or delusional opinions about it.Legitimus (talk) 19:28, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

"innately considered abuse" also calls for sources. There are societies in which it is common for mothers to stroke their baby sons' penises to erection. In these societies this is not considered abuse, not even innately. I realize you are talking about siblings, but I think your real point has to do with what kind of play among children parents consider abusive even if both children are "consenting." Slrubenstein | Talk 13:11, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Which modern day cultural is it considered appropriate for two 6 year olds to be engaging in penetrative sexual intercourse and to do so without any sort of influence from adults or pornography? Because I would really like to study that culture. Also if I remember correctly, that the example you just gave was discredited; some kind of rumor spread around to denigrate a specific culture.

Shaw et al's Child on child sexual abuse - psychological perspectives provides pretty explicit guidelines on what is considered truly normative behavior. He states "Appropriate exploratory sexual behavior is carried out with children of the same age, size, and with mutual consent." It is hard to put siblings at the same age and size (plus the extremely common social status of birth order) unless they are twins. Furthermore, according to Shaw both participates must have all of the following (quote):

(1) understanding what is proposed;

(2) knowledge of societal standards for what is proposed;

(3) awareness of potential consequences and alternatives;

(4) assumption that agreement or disagreement will be respected equally;

(5) voluntary decision; and

(6) mental competence

I find it very hard to believe you have all that when very young children are involved. And like I said, [Carlson (2006)] shows that many sibling incest victims have delusional beliefs about the event.Legitimus (talk) 13:59, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

So I guess you did not read what I wrote. Slrubenstein | Talk 20:24, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Ok now I am confused, and if I have made offense, embarrassed. Your second and third sentences very much sounded like you were defending the passage under a "cultural relativism" argument. In truth I was hoping the editor who added this passage] would respond. Since that passage still is unsourced, if there is no timely response I feel we should remove it.Legitimus (talk) 21:28, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

I was simply stating facts - but I was refering to an activity between mother and son, not between siblings. I think your response was equally specific and I think we are all better off when we are dealing with specifics. And i agree that more citations are a good idea. Slrubenstein | Talk 12:42, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

"Often?"

I have a question about the content under "incest between adult and child": Why does it state that this is "often" child sexual abuse? I cannot imagine a context in which an adult having sexual intercourse with a child would not qualify under any definition of child sexual abuse. Sojourner529 (talk) 16:25, 4 June 2011 (UTC) Sojourner529

You make a valid point. I cannot think of a situation where it's not.Legitimus (talk) 20:57, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

I noted article no longer uses the word often and an editor has changed it to be more definitive. Pbmaise (talk) 00:28, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Islamic religious views, "The main differences ..."

There is a table in the Islam section introduced by "The main differences (apart from relationships between a man and his daughter) are:". Could someone please clarify what views Islam is being compared to here? Looking at the article, I guessed that the other views being compared are those of one or more of the alternative religious views described in article subsections at the same indent level as the Islam section — that would be Jewish, Christian, Hindu, and/or Buddhist.

Looking back at earlier versions of the article, I see this, from which it appears that the comparison was earlier presented as between Islam and the rules of pre-Islamic Arabic culture and to the rules in the Torah. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 22:39, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Inca Incest

A section needs to be added about all 12 of the Inca being the result of brother sister messages. Good genes as well as bad ones are concentrated in this case.Trojancowboy (talk) 19:35, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Just interjecting that this is mentioned briefly in the Incest taboo article. Also see [1], [2], etc. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 20:58, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

IP reverts

Can you explain yourself? Pass a Method talk 09:43, 19 December 2011 (UTC)