Talk:India

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Featured article India is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
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The meaning of Vande Mataram needs to be changed in accordance with the Vande Mataram wiki[edit]

The literal meaning of 'Vande Mataram' is 'I praise thee, Mother'.

Vande literally means 'I praise/I salute/I worship'. 'I bow', although could pass in spirit, is incorrect.

The wiki for Vande Mataram is accurate in this matter.

I am citing one of the most online sanskrit dictionaries for this.

[1]

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Akashputhraya (talkcontribs) 04:02, 17 February 2015‎ Template:Reflist-tallk

Largest Indian City[edit]

In the article's right, it says that Mumbai is the largest (i.e. most populated) city in India. But that is outdated information from the 2011 census. According the 2013-2014 census, Delhi is India's largest city and the world's second largest city (the third is Mumbai). [2] This is an edit request. Thanks.

15:52 UTC — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tejas Subramaniam (talkcontribs) 15:52, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Vedic Society. "Sanskrit Dictionary". http://www.sanskritdictionary.com/. Vedic Socitey. Retrieved 17 February 2015. 
  2. ^ Top 10 Most Populated Cities. International Business Times. 2014.
The Census data alone is considered authoritative about population data. Last census was conducted in 2011, and next will be in 2021, there is no census in 2013-14. The reference provided does not cite a source, also, sometimes population of Delhi's satellite towns (Gurgaon, Noida, Faridabad, Ghaziabad) is counted in Delhi's population, the source does not clarify if that is the case.User:Samitus mallicus

Accepted, but the satellite town population was not considered by the reference I cited.

--Tejas Subramaniam (talk) 11:29, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

National Game Updatation[edit]

I think that the National Game of India is Hockey and it should be updated on the page... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.124.74.122 (talk) 07:34, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

See: In RTI reply, Centre says India has no national game. Abecedare (talk) 09:19, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Nepal earth quake Maybe due to large amount of chinese fracking, Fracking is 100 percent prove to cause earth quakes and tremmers.[edit]

Does anyone know if wiki has a page on Chinese fracking? I hear that the nepal earth quake maybe a result of this massive fracking prossess of china, if enough information can be gathered can we make a page on The damage resul;ts left by fracking in asia?92.236.96.38 (talk) 18:51, 26 April 2015 (UTC)Hinting information

This is not really the Talk page for this discussion. Try the Talk pages for Hydraulic fracturing, Hydraulic fracturing by country, or List of countries by recoverable shale gas. I doubt that you'll get much affirmation, though. China hasn't been fracking all that long, fracking hasn't been shown to cause massive quakes, and Nepal is in a seismically active region of the world. Dhtwiki (talk) 23:39, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Tourism in India[edit]

I think there is need of separate small section of Tourism in India. Many countries have that section in their article (like Pakistan). India is a vast nation and has very much diversity in climate, has various natural sites like from Deserts, Hills, Valleys, Rivers, Sea to forests. Also rich history of various religions left vast number of historic monuments. So it deserves atleast small section on Tourism. There is separate article on Tourism in India, we can link this article to that Tourism section. Currently this article is linked in economy section. Thank you. --Human3015 05:52, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

I think no one has problem with creation of new small section of "Tourism in India", thats why no one is objecting here even after I waited for 48 hours. This page has more than 3000 watchers and thousands of daily readers but no one objected my idea of new section. So I will create new small section on Tourism, don't revert it if you didn't took part here in discussion. Thank you. --Human3015 11:05, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Note: Posting here doesn't mean you have "the license" to add that just because no one has said anything in 48 hours. Silence is the lowest form of consensus and you still can be reverted later because of such a bold change. Everyone is a volunteer here and not expected to reply for each and everything. This talk page is watched by everyone, but just look at the number of unanswered posts here, not all attract replies. Search the talk archives above, I believe there are discussions regarding this. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 11:57, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for your reply, you are talking like Wikipedia gave you "the license" of reverting everything, anyway, no one owns the article, and everybody is free to make changes according to reliable sources. Thanks again. Cheers. --Human3015 12:15, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
As Ugog said above, if you search the talk page archive you'll see that this has been discussed several times previously and the current consensus is that such a section is undue. If you wish to argue otherwise feel free to make your case and establish new consensus for a section. And having "reliable sources" is a necessary condition for including content; not a sufficient one. There is ample content on India that can be properly sourced, but which belongs in the petinent sub-article and not here. Abecedare (talk) 12:29, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
Ok, Thanks both of you, I have read old discussions. Human3015 13:17, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 April 2015[edit]

Johnnyjohn979 (talk) 10:36, 28 April 2015 (UTC) sir i'm a student in delhi in this page it is showing capital as new delhi and largest city as mumbai please change largest city as new delhi it is the most populated city, most populated urban agglomeration, most populous by city proper,most populous metropolitan area as per as current population 2015 many research articles are showing new delhi as the second most populous city in the world after tokyo

even in terms of land area also new delhi is the largest city of india so i'd be very happy if you incorporate these changes with regards

Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 10:47, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 April 2015[edit]

sir i'm a student in delhi in this page it is showing capital as new delhi and largest city as mumbai please change largest city as new delhi it is the most populated city, most populated urban agglomeration, most populous by city proper,most populous metropolitan area as per as current population 2015 many research articles are showing new delhi as the second most populous city in the world after tokyo

even in terms of land area also new delhi is the largest city of india so i'd be very happy if you incorporate these changes with regards Johnnyjohn979 (talk) 11:04, 28 April 2015 (UTC) please change "largest city Mumbai→New Delhi"

X mark.svg Not done Please provide reliable sources for you claim. And please don't make this request again without reliable sources. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:11, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes, even given UN source of 2014 says that Delhi is most populous city in the world after Tokyo. read here at UN website. UN says Delhi has 25 million population, while Mumbai has 21 million population. We can't discard this user just because he is talking politely, wikipedia has no place for polite users, we need to be aggressive to make a change, either its in society or in wikipedia. --Human3015 11:28, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Reference: http://www.un.org/en/development/desa/news/population/world-urbanization-prospects-2014.html

Saraswati river settlements[edit]

I have removed the sentence

"Based on the Indian Remote Sensing Satellite data it was observed that the major Indus Valley Civilization sites of Kalibangan (Rajasthan), Banawali and Rakhigarhi (Haryana), Dholavira and Lothal (Gujarat) flourished along the ancient Sarasvati River."

that was recently added to the article and sourced to a Lok Sabha Q&A because:

  • it is poorly sourced; the Lok Sabha Q&A may be ok as a source of GoI position, but is not a WP:HISTRS source, which is what we should be using in this article. However sourcing is not my major concern, since we can certainly find good sources verifying that IVC settlements existed along the Ghaggar-Hakra River/Saraswati River.
  • More importantly the sentence is simply undue in this high level survey in which we summarize ~30,000 years of ancient Indian history in a paragraph and the whole of IVC history in two sentences. Even if we were to add an additional sentence to the IVC history, it would not be one that simply dropped in the names of a few IVC sites (two of which are already named in the immediately preceding sentence!) without adding any material info.

Abecedare (talk) 20:17, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

@Kautilya3: beat me to the removal this time, but the rest of my above statement stands. Abecedare (talk) 20:19, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
Well, my take is that the students are back for summer holidays. So, expect this torrent of this poorly-sourced undue edits to continue. But sometimes they make a good point even if it is done badly. This was one of those. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 20:37, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
Yup, no problem with mentioning Sarasvati river per se. IIRC Upinder Singh even discusses whether the IVC/Harappan Civilization is "correctly" named, or if those names simply reflect the early finds (to be clear, not proposing discussing any of that here and, correct or not, those names are commonly used even in scholarly literature). Abecedare (talk) 20:46, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
Yup again. If you check our favourite editor's edit history, you will notice that he has created 10 aliases for the IVC, covering his bases in every possible way! -- Kautilya3 (talk) 20:49, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Edit proposal in the Ancient India, second paragraph, to add few essentially necessary words to the existing sentence regarding Indo-Aryan Migration[edit]

After a long discussion with various editors @ Kautilya3 , Joshua Jonathan , Abecedare , etc., If anyone interested to have an overview of this detailed discussion can have a look at it @User talk:Kautilya3 under the title "Sarswati & myth-making". So, my proposal for edit is

In Ancient India section, second paragraph,

Old text

Most historians also consider this period to have encompassed several waves of Indo-Aryan migration into the subcontinent

Proposed minor edit

Most historians also consider this period to have encompassed several waves of Indo-Aryan migration into the sub-continent, thought the present archaeological evidence doesn't testify it.

or something that suits appropriate in mentioning the archaeological stand on Indo-Aryan migration.

My explanation:

The Indo-Aryan Migration is a theory based on linguist approach. The assumptions and theories regarding it change again and again based on the constantly adding up of new archaeological excavations. They will again change in the very near future based on the information that will be made available from the recent large scale excavations of IVC sites that came to light in the Hishar district, Haryana state, India. So, my point is that the assumptions of this theory changes again and again. So, it is essentially necessary to at least mention the archaeological stand regarding this theory. Or else it may mislead people reading the article to think that what is mentioned is true and there are no issues regarding it .

I'm asking for the addition of a few essentially necessary words. The edit proposal I made will not contradict with the previously mentioned information, buts adds some more genuinely necessary information to it.

So, I request all of you to keep your views on this issue.

Thank you. --BodduLokesh (talk) 15:09, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

You should definitely look at this recent RfC Talk:Indigenous Aryans#RfC: the "Indigenous Aryans" theory is fringe-theory before suggesting changes to the Indo-Aryan migration issues. Historical linguistics decides which language originated from which. That never changes on the basis of anything that happens in archaeology. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 15:25, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
Also worth looking at is this draft article User:Kautilya3/sandbox/Indigenous Indo-Aryans and the Rigveda. It is not yet complete. But the sections that exist (mainly from archaeologists) are already a pretty devastating critique of the indigenous Aryanism. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 16:58, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Indian Colonization of Asia[edit]

There should be a section on Indian colonies as Chola and Majapahit, etc Why no section on Indian Colonization of Asia

Is this wikipedia biased towards europeans who migrated out of india ?????? see Out of India theory

thank you, Jay

"Europeans who migrated out of India"? Nice one! Why should there by a section on "Indian colonies"? - Kautilya3 (talk) 11:03, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Indigenous Aryans might be what you are looking for. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 07:29, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 May 2015[edit]

Please Change below Languages option as "Hindi" in [National language] option

languages_type = National language |languages = None

120.59.83.199 (talk) 07:00, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

X mark.svg Not done It already says "National Language - None" Hindi is the Official language as explained in the drop-down box, in the body of the article and in FAQ Q9 at the top of this page - Arjayay (talk) 07:39, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Etymology - Āryāvarta[edit]

Āryāvarta(abode of the Aryans) is the name for India in classical Sanskrit literature.Arayavarta is the name of India that is mentioned in every book related to Sanskrit ,Hinduism & the ancient history of India .The name Āryāvarta become irrelevant only after the complete death of Hinduism and Sanskrit language in India.Even now nearly a billion hindus of this country while going through basic Hindu scriptures see and use these term on a daily basis.Every Puranas mention about Āryāvarta. As pointed out by Joshua Jonathan that Āryāvarta is only used to denote North India is the opinion of a very few historians.Hindu texts like Puranas ,Epics like Mahabharata and Ramayana explicitly notes that Arayavrata is the area between Rameswaram in South to Kailash in North and to Gandhar (present Kandahara in Afganistan) in West to Tripura ( an eastern state of India) in East.They denotes Arayavrata as a place where "Aryas" live.Here the term Arya is meant to denote people who are "noble",only to indicate the character not as a "race " of people as postulated like few historians(eg- Max Muller).Even before the age of Max Muller, the epic Mahabharata specifically explains all about it.Also an another important text called "PARASURAMA KALPA SUTRA" the back bone of all Tantric related works & also used for the construction of temple,the ultimate authority in regarding to temple ,social life of people living in the Indian subcontinent explains a lot about Āryāvarta. Āryāvarta term is based upon the noble character and the life style people followed in the subcontinent.It is not restricted to North India because Hinduism was and is present entirely in the Subcontinent .Again in modern era Former Indian prime minister and historian Jewaharlal Nehru in his book "The Discovry of India" and S. Radhakrishnan in his book Eastern Religions and Western Thoughts talk about it.

  • Eastern Religions and Western Thoughts by S. Radhakrishnan, Oxford University Press; 2014 edition (December 31, 2007) ISBN 978-0195624564
  • The Discovery of India by Jawaharlal Nehru Publishers: Oxford University Press ISBN No: 0 19 562359 2

Arjunkrishna90 (talk) 08:06, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

@Arjunkrishna90: Thanks for starting this discussion but you thesis above that Aryavarta referred to the whole of India etc. is not even supported by the very sources you cited in your edit (if you think otherweise, feel free to cite the relevant extracts). And in any case this article is primarily focused on Republic of India and "aryavarta" has no etymological link with any common contemporary name of the country. Abecedare (talk) 08:23, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
Arjunkrishna90, You are right in some extend. But this is a featured article, we should use terms which are most common. "India" and "Bharat" are official names, "Hindustan" is still most commonly used though it is not official name. If you see any official statement by Government of Pakistan in their official language Urdu regarding India, they still call India as "Hindustan". "Hindustan" is included for being used most commonly. That is not case with "Aryavart". It is no where used now a days. Still their is a page linked in same section Names of India, that page do have section named "Aryavart" which is unsourced. You can improve that section with these sources. People who are interested in "names of India" will surely click on article Names of India and will read your edits. --Human3015 Say Hey!! • 08:38, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
@Abecedare:,As regarding the source,please go through the book Eastern Religions By Michael David Coogan,Oxford University Press,2005,ISBN-10 : 0195221915 Page 70-71. From the book and i quote The idea of India as a sacred land began around the beginning of the Common Era.Manu,the author of a book on 'dharma' and right behaviour,defined a region south of the Himalayas and between eastern and western oceans as the holy Aryavarta (Country of the Noble Ones) .
Human3015 Your point duly noted but i would like to point that all books related Hinduism, mainly epics calls this nation as either Bharatha or Aryavarta.There is nobody calling the name India or Hindustan in the Sanskrit literature or in the history of this nation.The name India is put forwarded by British and it came up nearly 200 years ago!!!.Nearly 80% of the population of the country knows this and still uses the term Aryavarta in a daily basis knowingly or unknowingly.If we ask anyone living in India and ask what is Aryavarta they will surely say its the name of this country.No other country in the world have this name.For the argument that its not widely used, its massively used in written language especially in Hindi and Sanskrit.The Indian speaking population of the country or the westerners may not be aware of it but in everyday life these words are widely used.In every temples ,every place where Hinduism related activities are going on Aryavarta is widely used.If somebody says the name Aryavarta is not used in this country anymore i would politely point out that everyday in every temple in India while using for rituals or religious related activities they use the word Bharatha or Arayavarta, NOT EVEN THE NAMES LIKE INDIA OR HINDUSTAN.
If anyone want to add additional links please add Eastern Religions By Michael David Coogan,Oxford University Press,2005,ISBN-10 : 0195221915 Page 70-71Arjunkrishna90 (talk) 11:14, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
"Every book"? That's a bold claim. And "North India is the opinion of a very few historians"? That's also a bold claim. Aryvarta denotes a limited area within northern India:
  • Michael Cook (2014), Ancient Religions, Modern Politics: The Islamic Case in Comparative Perspective, Princeton University Press, p.68: "Aryavarta [...] is defined by Manu as extending from the Himalayas in the north to the Vindhyas of Central India in the south and from the sea in th west to the sea in the east."
  • Jason Neelis (2010), Early Buddhist Transmission and Trade Networks: Mobility and Exchange Within and Beyond the Northwestern Borderlands of South Asia, BRILL, p.194: "Aryvarta begins east of where the Sarsavati disappears, effectively excluding the Punjab, the Indus river valley, and the northwestern borderlands."
So, both credible scholars and classical sources agree that Aryavarta refers to a restricted area within northern India. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 11:27, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

@Joshua Jonathan:Yes "Every book" related to Hinduism and the history of Indian subcontinent calls this nation as Aryavarta & / Bharath.I can easily gave you 18 Puranas and 18 Upa Puranas and 2 Epics that calls this nation as Aryavarta.They dont call this country as India!!!.You can throw many books published by Princeton University Press or Oxford Univ Press claiming it as WP:HISTRS,but every citizen of this country knows that this nation is also called Aryavarta and daily basis used all around in the country and temple culture.In 1949, the Constituent Assembly had debated the possible name of the newly independent country. Names suggested during the debate had ranged from Bharat, Hindustan,Bharatvarsha and Aryavrat. If anyone says that the name "Bharatvarsha" is also not widely used in the country in a daily basis then they have absolutely no knowledge about this nation and its culture.I will also say that in the Etymology if somebody argues that "Bharatvarsha" is the other name of this country and is widely used ,they are absolutely true.Bcoz in daily basis the common man of this nation use Bharatvarsha and Aryavarta widely!!!Arjunkrishna90 (talk) 11:50, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Arjunkrishna90, I accept that "Aryavarta" is ancient name of India mentioned in some scriptures. But in those times that name was mainly came after Aryan race suggesting that this is "land of our race". As Joshua Jonathan saying that "Aryavart" means only north India, his statement has point because even today we see people of Dravidian race in south India so in technical terms South India is not "land of Aryans" or "Aryavart". Translating "Aryavart" as "Land of Nobles" is just POV of that writer which indirectly signify that all "non-Aryans" are "not noble". And Indians are "Aryans" or not is questionable. You can read this "India Today" article Indians are not descendants of Aryans, says new study. So we can't keep such questionable or biased things in featured article. I suggested you to improve Names of India, it can be part of that article.--Human3015 Say Hey!! • 12:03, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
Human3015 If thats the case then i would like to point out another discussion in the Talk page, above section Edit proposal in the Ancient India, second paragraph, to add few essentially necessary words to the existing sentence regarding Indo-Aryan Migration.In the article,on History section - Ancient India : says Most historians also consider this period to have encompassed several waves of Indo-Aryan migration into the subcontinent.[28][26] .As per user BodduLokesh it is right to to add Most historians also consider this period to have encompassed several waves of Indo-Aryan migration into the sub-continent, though the present archaeological evidence doesn't testify it. We are debating on a Hypothesis about Aryan Invasion.Nobody is sure.There are many counter opinions on Aryan Invasion theory.Why dont we add it the article.As per the words of BodduLokesh and i quote else it may mislead people reading the article to think that what is mentioned is true and there are no issues regarding it .As i went through the Talk:Indigenous Aryans#RfC: the "Indigenous Aryans" theory is fringe-theory and User:Kautilya3/sandbox/Indigenous Indo-Aryans and the Rigveda i dont find any consensus regarding this matter.At the same time serious mistakes are still in the article itself!Arjunkrishna90 (talk) 12:39, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
Ah, here we are again, at the Aryan migration! Well, the Aryan culture didn't enter India by boat via southern India, did it? Actually, there's a clear concensus that the Indo-European languages entered India from outside, via north-western India. It's also clear that those "Aryans," whoever they may have been, did not comprise large groups, and left only a little imprint on india's genetical make-up. But this imprint was not nihil! The likely scenario is that the Aryan culture offered a very attractive economical alternative to the dwindling agrarical culture of the Indus Valley civilisation, and that members of that culture joined the Aryans and their pastoral culture.
Anyway, it's clear that "Aryavarta" refers to a limited part of northern India, the part where the later Vedic culture flourished. Calling the whole of India "Aryavarta" is historically incorrect. Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 13:05, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
NB: Sharma, in his IndiaToday article, doesn't understand what he's writing about. "Aryan invasion" is indeed a myth, perpetuated by ill-informed Indians. "Aryan migration" is a well-established scientific theory. The really interesting fact from those recent genetic studies is that between 2,000 BCE and 200 CE a dramatic mixture of ancestral north Indians and ancestral south Indians took place. After 200 CE, Indian society got fixated in the caste-system - that is, economic stratification. Why's that? think about it, and consider the simple coincidence of the breakdown of the IVC, due to drought, and the start of this genetic mixture. Consider also the socalled second urbanisation, around 500 BCE. What happened in ndia in those 2,200 years? The oldest archaeological artefacts in India may be millennia-old, but India as we know it today emerged no earlier (but also no later!) than around the 2,500 BCE - 200 CE, no matter what the puranas say - which emerged exactly in that period! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 13:13, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Dear Arjun, three points:

  • As per Wikipedia consensus, the Indigenous Aryans theories are fringe theories. You haven't said anything so far to challenge that consensus. (If you want to do so, you need to produce high-quality, reliable sources, such as papers in leading international journals, not your own opinions.)
  • My draft page on Indigenous Indo-Aryans and Rigveda has a talk page. If you want to make any comments on it, please do so there. The only way you can identify any "mistakes" in it is for you to read the journal papers in question and challenge my summaries of them for accuracy.
  • As for the Aryavarta terminology, I have read all the Puranas myself and it is my opinion that it was a term used to vaguely describe the lands of civilized people, excluding the forest-dwellers surrounding them. As the Aryan culture spread, the so-called "Aryavarta" expanded, but it never encompassed South India. The geographical term for India has always been Bharat Varsha. I suggest that you wp:drop the stick because the consensus is against you. No matter how strongly believe in your ideas, you can't put them all into Wikipedia.

Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 13:07, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Ah, there you are! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 13:13, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Arjun, and to (perhaps unnecessarily) add to what Joshua, Kautilya and Human have already said, here are two books that you cited for your edit and to support your thesis on the talk page,:

  • Sanskrit & Prakrit, Sociolinguistic Issues by Madhav Deshpande: Quoting Manusmriti 2.21-22 "The tract between those two mountains [Himalayas and the Vindhyas] which extends as far as the eastern and the western oceans, the wise call Aryavarta" See also map in book on page 98.
  • Discovery of India by Jawaharlal Nehru An earlier name was Aryavarta, the land of Aryans, but this was confined to Northern India up to the Vindhya mountains in Central India.

Abecedare (talk) 16:03, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Economy[edit]

Someone should revert India's economy figures back to 2014 GDP figures. We are still in 2015 so any 2015 figure are projections 128.233.13.205 (talk) 22:15, 24 May 2015 (UTC)