Talk:Indian Rebellion of 1857

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Why not exchange[edit]

Why they don't Let the Muslim use the cow fat and the Hindist the pig fat?Just exchange? Britain had been in India for quite a long time, they should know their custom. Can anyone tell me why? suppose 1: someone incited a revolution against Britain 2: Britain want to take over it from EIC 3: Britain want to suppress the potencial enemy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Laoshuxsm (talkcontribs) 02:07, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Read the articel.Slatersteven (talk) 10:54, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

See also[edit]

Why has a blog been re-instated as a see also?Slatersteven (talk) 16:56, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

I corrected the link negating your basis for removal ('link does not work'). As stated I'm assuming good faith on the part of original editor re validity and quality. Rsloch (talk) 22:58, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
Do See also sections usually contain blogs by people who do not appear to be experts? In fact this seems to be a result of a competition to write a blog in martarati that the bloke did not even win.Slatersteven (talk) 11:04, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
That would be a valid reason for removing a link but not the one you used. I simply repaired a link you pointed out as broken.Rsloch (talk) 16:23, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia India pages is totally compromised by the presence of jingoist writers[edit]

If this mutiny was pro-'India' (which was never there till 1947), then all the others who supported the British rule including the majority people of this geographical area (Sikhs, southerners, and even the Gurkhas) should be anti-nationals. What kind of an idiotic history writing is this? If NCERT textbooks are to be copied into Wikipedia, then what kind of an encyclopedia is this?

No,you stupid,republic of India was founded in 1947,not India,learn history.07:42, 19 March 2013 (UTC)Ovsek (talk)

Sepoy mutiny was just a minor military mutiny. However, the Englishmen who came to this geographical area was overwhelmed by the size of the place to imagine that it was a revolt that was taking place all over the geographical area. Truth is that most of the population stood by the British rulers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:29, 23 February 2013 (UTC) Remove this p please.Slatersteven (talk) 12:46, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

I don't know about the title of this section, but the above editors have a point. India was not a single unit, then or now (included Pakistan then at best). The Rebellion is known universally in the English-speaking world outside of India, as the "Sepoy Mutiny." Student7 (talk) 21:19, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
@Student7: You may want to take a look at the Nomenclature and Historiography sections of the article for a discussion of the topic. Abecedare (talk) 21:46, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Aftermath section[edit]

This section contains a characteristic excerpt from a letter written by Edward Vibart (then 19 years old) to his uncle. The original text was taken from the introduction to William Dalrymple's book, The Last Moghul. Later on in the text he gives a fuller version of the letter, commenting that it "oscillated between bloody bravado and flashes of awareness at the horrors he was committing." I have two concerns:

  • The letter was written while fighting was still in progress in Delhi - possibly it does not belong in the Aftermath Section, and
  • The fuller text makes it clear that Vibart's orders were limited to a particular area (between the Delhi Gate and the Turkman Gate), but it's quite clear from Dalrymple's book that a massacre of the (male) civilian population of Delhi was indeed official army policy. It is thus misleading as to the content of the specific source (Vibart), but nevertheless fully representative of the attitudes of the times (in the absence of a brief and to the point statement from another reliable source).

Here's the fuller text:

‘I have seen many bloody and awful sights lately, but such a one as I witnessed yesterday please God I pray I never see again. The regiment was ordered to clear the houses between the Delhi and Turkman Gates, which are the two gates that we have to hold, and the orders were to shoot every soul. I think I must have seen about 30 or 40 defenceless people shot down before me. It was literally murder and I was perfectly horrified. The women were all spared, but their screams, on seeing their husbands and sons butchered, were most terrible.
The town as you may imagine presents an awful spectacle now … heaps of dead bodies scattered throughout the place and every house broken into and sacked – but it is the [ordinary] townspeople who are now falling victims to our infuriated soldiery.
You can easily fancy with what feelings I visited all my old haunts yesterday, I went to all the old remembered places, and almost [succeeded in] imagining that nothing had taken place; but on looking around, the delusion was soon expelled for the marks of cannon and musketry were to be seen on all sides, telling but too well the mortal conflict that had been raging here not long before. A little further on you would come across a heap of dead bodies in the last stage of putrefaction, or some old woman in a state of starvation, and you could not help wondering how you could ever delight in bloodshed and war. And a few yards further on still some [of our] drunken soldiers would reel past, exciting your pity not unmixed with disgust. Wherever you go, you see some unfortunate man or other being dragged out of his hiding place, and barbarously put to death.
Heaven knows I feel no pity – but when some old grey bearded man is brought and shot before your very eyes – hard must be that man’s heart I think who can look on with indifference. And yet it must be so for these black wretches shall atone with their blood for our murdered countrymen – my own father and mother – sister and brother all cry aloud for vengeance, and their son will avenge them. Yes! He shall be seen in the fight, and shall never shrink [from bloodshed,] for God have given him both strength and courage.

Compare this with the abbreviated version previously used:

The orders went out to shoot every soul.... It was literally murder... I have seen many bloody and awful sights lately but such a one as I witnessed yesterday I pray I never see again. The women were all spared but their screams on seeing their husbands and sons butchered, were most painful... Heaven knows I feel no pity, but when some old grey bearded man is brought and shot before your very eyes, hard must be that man's heart I think who can look on with indifference...

I was left with the feeling after reading Dalrymple's excellent book that much of the present article could do with revision - he manages what looks to me in 2013 like a good neutral point of view - but I don't think Dalrymple would appreciate his book being mined quite so extensively. Thomas Peardew (talk) 07:21, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

If we can avoid long quotes all the better, but if you believe one has been reproduced in such a way as to give an inaccurate impression of the whole feel free in changing it.
It is also dangerous to rewrite a whole article based on one book, more so if like Dalrymple's it has an openly stated agenda. Rsloch (talk) 12:00, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Casualties and Losses[edit]

Do we have any facts on the total number of casualties and losses for all sides? We could then put it in a box at the top of the page like they do with the articles on other wars.--Lord Don-Jam (talk) 16:34, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

I had the same question, and it has appeared a few times in the Archives. I am, however, too new to this page to begin addressing it directly myself. Here's a Guardian piece that suggests a consensus, "Conventional histories have counted only 100,000 Indian soldiers who were slaughtered in savage reprisals..." in light of much higher figures proposed. Here's a paper arguing "we will never have a precise figure for the British civilian dead." Here's a book summary calling the number of British casualties, in comparison to wars both contemporary (Crimea, US Civil War) and future (World Wars of the 20th century) "surprisingly small, small enough for the dead to be listed almost individually in contemporary reports." It appears that page 572 of Raj : the making and unmaking of British India by Lawrence James goes into the subject and maybe someone has access to that text. I find one source saying, without citation, "Modern estimates put the death toll at 15,000" but that's just after citing Niall Ferguson so I am especially hesitant to trust it. This site has figures of around 10K but I do not know how trustworthy it is. There is a wonderful table in this Defence Journal article but, again, I am uncertain how reliable it is. My hope is that this note, and some of the sources I present, might help or inspire someone with the resources to fill in this important information. Czrisher (talk) 16:57, 19 July 2014 (UTC)