Talk:Infante

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Refine meaning?[edit]

I notice on a number of pages the term Infante is rendered "prince" (which is fair enough, as that is how it equates in english); but I'm thinking it would be more illuminating if it was rendered "junior prince". Any thoughts (before I upset any apple-carts by changing it)? Moonraker12 (talk) 14:06, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

(Copied from Talk:Henry the Navigator (here). Moonraker12 (talk) 19:01, 17 April 2011 (UTC))
Dear users, Infante isn't a title to indicate "Junior princes". Infante is an old Iberian title that indicates the sons and the daughters of a monarch that aren't the heir to the throne. So, they could have 95 years or 10 years old and they'll continue being Infantes. And also they aren't fall of the Prince Royal of Portugal - the heir to the throne, they just are not the heir to the throne. So they're not "junior princes". This page has been blocked so I can't make this alteration by myself, so I ask you a favor: if someone could retire this denomination: (junior prince), please? Thank you. --Shristian (talk) 03:38, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
To clear up a misunderstanding; in english, all sons and daughters of the monarch are called "prince" and "princess" not just the immediate heir; so in english an infante would be referred to as a prince. And "junior" in this instance means "younger", not simply "young"; so a 95 year-old would still be junior to, say, a 98 year-old. Translating infante as "prince" is perfectly acceptable in english; I was merely mindful that the term has a more subtle meaning, and the phrase "junior prince" was only intended to bring it out. Moonraker12 (talk) 19:09, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
It's not reserved to "junior". The heir to the throne would also be called "Infante" before his ascension. e.g. in Portugal, a letter from 1428 where Prince Henry (a junior prince) refers to his brother Prince Edward (the heir) as "Infante". Here again:infante as heir (from the 1510 chronicle of Ruy de Pina). I got plenty of more examples, if you'd like (e.g. Infante D. Joao -> John II; John II's heir "Infante D. Afonso" (d.1491), etc.). Walrasiad (talk) 21:41, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
EDIT: Hm. Just checked Damiao de Gois (1567) and his usage seems to conform to what you suggest - reserving "Principe Dom X" to the heir, and "Infante Dom x" to his younger brothers. Perhaps usage changed between the 15th & 16th C.? Walrasiad (talk) 22:42, 17 April 2011 (UTC)