Talk:Ingrid Bergman

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Biography / Actors and Filmmakers (Rated B-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers (marked as Top-importance).
 

This article has comments here.

WikiProject Theatre (Rated B-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is part of WikiProject Theatre, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of theatre on Wikipedia.
To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

This article has comments here.

WikiProject Sweden (Rated B-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sweden, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Sweden-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

This article has comments here.

WikiProject Lutheranism (Rated B-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon Ingrid Bergman is part of WikiProject Lutheranism, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Lutheranism on Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to Lutheran churches, Lutheran theology and worship, and biographies of notable Lutherans. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Women's History (Rated Start-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women's history and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
 
This article has an assessment summary page.
Wikipedia Version 1.0 Editorial Team / v0.7
WikiProject icon This article has been reviewed by the Version 1.0 Editorial Team.
Taskforce icon
This article has been selected for Version 0.7 and subsequent release versions of Wikipedia.
 
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.

Education[edit]

She attended the University of Malmo at some point--my grandmother went to school with her. Does anyone have information on this?

She went straight from the Royal Dramatic Theater to working in films. I've read her entire autobiography, and there is no mention of the University of Malmo. --PhantomS 04:47, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

There is a Malmö University in Sweden, but founded in 1998. Malmö is an industrial city and this is a recent addition. Lund University is one of the old Swedish universities in a neighboring town. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.136.116.120 (talk) 17:17, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Gay Icon Project[edit]

In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 20:11, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I would say she is not a gay icon Franz-kafka 18:01, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I'm gay, but do not consider Ingrid Bergman to be more of a gay icon than hundreds of other female movie stars. Bergman is an icon to all.

Definitely, she is not a gay icon. She is an icon but not gay icon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.254.56.6 (talk) 20:49, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Images[edit]

I like the addition of the Casablanca image but I wonder if we really need the shot of her at 14 anymore. 23skidoo 01:22, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't like that image either; it's not very representative of how most people think of her. The Singing Badger 02:41, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
It's a nice picture; leave it in. On a more serious note, I think those responsible for this article should read her autobiography. There are a lot of errors and slurs here. Sune Slips
Actually, I have. At least 3 times. Could you be specific as to the "errors and slurs"? I did note an uncited comment about her last husband which I deleted, and there was unnecessary bolding in the paragraph about her becoming a pariah in the US re:Rossellini. If there are errors, please be bold and correct them. 23skidoo 02:48, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
It seems to be a suitable early life picture. It would be nice if we could include a photo from around the time of Cactus Flower as well to show the longevity of her career. PhantomS 08:23, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Good edit[edit]

I'm glad to see the unsourced claim that she committed suicide removed from the article. If anyone puts it back, it had better be with a rock solid source. 23skidoo 22:26, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Date of death[edit]

The death certificate seems fairly conclusive about 30 August. I wonder why all the sources we quote say she died on 29 August. Even the "official Ingrid Bergman" website seems to have it wrong. Maybe this was the date in the US when her death was reported, and the date was misreported at the time and the misinformation has stuck ever since. Any other theories? JackofOz 11:28, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

I've always heard 29 August, myself. It's possible the 30 August date was a clerical error (that has happened before). Alternately it's possible the date on the certificate is the date on which the certificate was filed. Perhaps Ingrid died on the 29th but this wasn't discovered until the 30th? Didn't she die in her sleep? 23skidoo 14:50, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
One web site says that she died in her sleep at the end of her 67th birthday, 29th of August 1982. Probably the death certificate was filed on the 30th.
--Gabi S. 10:55, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
She died at the end of August 29th during the night. The day before, on the 28th, the cancer had advanced to her spine and collapsed her twelth verterbra, causing her to be on diamorphine and to be bedridden. On the 29th, it was discovered by the doctor that her right lung had collapsed and that only an upper third of the left was still working; therefore, it was known that she wouldn't be lasting much longer. In addition, at this point, she was going in and out of consciousness and her breathing was labored. At 3:30 a.m. on the 30th, her cousin Britt, who was sleeping in the next room, woke up and decided to check on Ingrid after not hearing her breathing. At that time, she was discovered to be dead.
--PhantomS 00:27, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
A similar confusion over the exact date of death occurred with a friend of mine, Johnny Grande, who likewise passed away overnight, leading to two different dates of death being reported in the media. 23skidoo 04:32, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Revisiting this issue. OK, so she certainly died no later than 3:30am on 30th, but possibly before midnight on 29th. We can hypothesise forever about typos on the DC, but that's all hot air as far as the historical record is concerned. The death certificate is that record, and it says death occurred on 30th. Who has the right to challenge that? Is there any evidence that death occurred prior to midnight? If so, where is it? At the very least, we need to report what the DC says, then perhaps explain why the world regards her as having died on the 29th. This is Wikipedia after all, not some fan site. JackofOz 04:40, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I've just been leafing through a biography of Bergman in a bookshop. It said she died at 3pm, on the afternoon of her birthday, Sunday 29 August. There was at least one witness, who saw her take her last breath. Whether that information is from primary sources is something we can only guess at. So what we have are the following differing dates and times:
  • 29 August, 3 pm
  • 29 August, late (during the night)
  • 30 August, 3.30 am
  • 30 August (death certificate - no time mentioned) [1].
To remain credible, I think we simply cannot just ignore the death certificate in the article. It was at one time available via a link, but has since been removed. That, to me, is a very dishonest approach to the use of primary sources. We have to either accept the certificate as accurate and use 30 August as Ingrid's death date, or explain why it is not accurate and use 29 August. The best I can come up with at the moment is that the doctor (or whoever) made an error when filling it out - but that is just my supposition, based on the fact that most sources say she died on 29 August. I want to return the birth certificate link to the article, but am having some trouble coming up with the words to explain why we do not accept it as being accurate. Can anyone assist? -- JackofOz 05:39, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Image deletion[edit]

I reverted the deletion of the Notorious image on the grounds that it does fall into fair use because it illustrates Bergman's work and the article itself serves as a description of one of the film's "contents" - namely the actress. If the issue is that there's no discussion of Notorious, then someone can easily add it. There is overwhelming precident for the use of such images on Wikipedia -- including, I may add, the Casablanca image at the top of this article. 23skidoo 15:41, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Fugitive in Vienna[edit]

I saw this movie listed in the film lists included with her Miami Herald and Washington Post obituaries. Furthermore, the Washington Post also included Simulantia as a separate entry. However, Fugitive in Vienna is nowhere to be found in IMDB. Does anyone have any information on this? --PhantomS 10:27, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Recordings[edit]

Missing from this article, I think, are references to at least 3 recordings Bergman made. One was an audio version of The Human Voice, another was a "talking book" of Inn of the Sixth Happiness, and her radio performance of Casablanca (opposite Humphrey Bogart and Paul Henreid again) was released to albums in 1970s and later CD. I lack date and other release information for these, otherwise I'd add them myself. 23skidoo 19:55, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

The radio performances are now public domain and can be picked up at several websites. In fact, I think I linked to the Casablanca versions by both the original cast and by Hedy Lamarr. As for the audio book version of Inn of the Sixth Happiness and spoken word version of The Human Voice, I have found internet sources for these and have subsequently introduced a table to the credits section. --PhantomS 22:14, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
By the way, photos of the LP can be seen here, while a Time magazine article on it from 1963 can be found here. Image of The Small Woman case can be seen here. --PhantomS 23:03, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Death section[edit]

What does "She was honored posthumously by Ingmar Bergman" mean? What did he do to honor her? JackofOz 05:48, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

No response, so I've removed the sentence. -- JackofOz 03:53, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

The Death and Legacy section says she was a "tall, natural looking, and intelligent Swedish actress, fluent in English." Why is this in the Death and Legacy section? Her height isn't really relevant, the picture shows how natural or unnatural she looks, her fluency in five languages is mentioned elsewhere, and I'm not sure how her intelligence is relevant. I'm removing this sentence. --BittenFigtalk 02:36, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Ingrid Bergman and Ingmar Bergman (and his wife Ingrid)[edit]

Could someone please clarify (as if no one knows; there's world out there) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.203.109.67 (talkcontribs) 17:53, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

We do say in the Trivia section that, although they worked together, Ingrid Bergman and Ingmar Bergman were not related. It's just a coincidence that Ingmar Bergman's 5th wife's name also happened to be Ingrid. -- JackofOz 03:55, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Corrected book Title[edit]

Corrected comment about Alan Burgess. Article originally claimed he wrote The Inn of the Sixth Happiness, when in fact the book he wrote was called The Small Woman, on which the Movie The Inn of the Sixth Happiness was based. The correct title of his book is confirmed by The DVD audio commentary of the movie, the text on the back of the DVD case, and the 'Critical reaction' section of the Wikipedia article on The Inn of the Sixth Happiness. Alexander 05:34, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Her mother[edit]

Her mother was Friedel Adler. Adler is a Jewish surname. I'm self Jewish, and my mom's name is Adler, and she has no German ancestry, but actually she's a Jew from Germany. Ingrid's mother was a Jewish woman from Germany, with Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry from Russia, Poland, Hungary and Germany. I heard that in an interview with her daughter, Isabella Rossellini in a Swedish magazine, Icakuriren. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.210.85.30 (talkcontribs) 16:59, 5 July 2007 (UTC).

If you read her autobiography, you'll find that her mother's family was Lutheran and that she had pro-Nazi relatives on that side. By the way, you might want to look at Jewish name. --PhantomS 07:10, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

WP:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers priority assessment[edit]

Per debate and discussion re: assessment of the approximate 100 top priority articles of the project, this article has been included as a top priority article. Wildhartlivie (talk) 10:16, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Little To No Makeup[edit]

The article currently states, "her appearance was entirely natural with little to no makeup". I have a hard time believing this. Anyone who appears in on tv or in a film needs to be caked with makeup, or the lighting will wash out their features. I'm not saying she wasn't naturally pretty, but to say she didn't need makeup is to not understand the industry. Also, the article says she got her first Academy Award nomination the same year as Casablanca, but that doesn't make any sense. 68.253.25.151 (talk) 14:55, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

It has nothing to do with "not understanding the industry." This is in the article because it is highly unusual and makes Bergman stand out as a remarkably pretty woman. It's also stated directly in more than one major biographies of her. In addition, she received no nominations for "Casablanca," but she did for "For Whom the Bell Tolls," which came out the same year, in terms of awards. So yes, it does make sense. Icarus of old (talk) 17:04, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Early life details[edit]

Recent deletions by User:72.81.124.230 may be undermining neutral point of view and conflict of interest guidelines. Using terms such as "insinuating" and "provocative" to bio details that come from valid and authoritative sources are OK and should not be deleted. Additional material can be cited. It's also unclear why such information would be "provocative" in any case. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 19:24, 22 February 2010 (UTC) If you want any quotations from the books cited, please ask.--Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 19:42, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand why the IP would want to remove this content. It is quite clearly adequately sourced. Are we trying to remove or deny ties with Judaism? There is no question in my mind that this is completely relevant and properly weighted content. Removing this would tend to be censorship at best. There is nothing anywhere that would prohibit such content, which is in no way insinuating or provocative. If someone is claiming family ties to Bergman, but is actively trying to remove this content, I'd have to question the motivation for doing so. Wildhartlivie (talk) 21:59, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't think the hyphenated adjective Swedish-German is valid for a person whose German mother died when she was three years of age, and who never had anything to do with the country of her birth, as far as I know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.229.247.182 (talk) 00:29, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Agree. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 01:18, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciation[edit]

If you see Ingmar Bergman's page, another swedish actor with the same last name, it gives an audio file showing how to pronounce his last name properly. If someone can add it here too, it will be nice.--Power2People (talk) 14:54, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

There is no choice but to revert recent deletions of material cited by Chandler's biography. Chandler is used throughout the article and is a primary source of facts in this article. If someone wishes to claim that the Chandler book does not meet criteria for WP:Verifiability, then add and explain those disputes here instead of removing selections as "undocumented." Otherwise, all of Chandler's citations should be removed, in which case the article will become a brief stub. The alternative is to find additional sources that may dispute facts and expand the article. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 00:24, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

"Cleaned-up" Biography[edit]

I've read a lot of Wikipedia biographies for writers, actors, directors and producers and mentions of coworkers who they had significant affairs with are commonly included (all sourced, of course). Bergman's name comes up in several of them but aside from her affair and later marriage to Rossellini, this information is not included and, I'm guessing, it consciously deleted when it is edited in.

Affairs between actors or actors and directors were common in Hollywood of the 1920s-1950s and it seems sanitized to omit their mention here, especially when mention of Bergman occurs on the other person's Wikipedia page. This isn't gossip, it helps readers understand Hollywood culture of the time and also can impact how one views films that arise out of off-screen romances.

I'm not sure whether some editor wants to preserve a virtuous image of Bergman but she is deceased and considering how prevalent they were, I don't think knowledge of her affairs would tarnish this image. I'm not going to get into an editing war but I just wanted to cast a vote for including this dimension of her personal life in her biography. This information already exists on other Wiki pages and it makes sense that it would appear on this bio as well. 69.125.134.86 (talk) 13:38, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

love affair with Robert Capa[edit]

No mention of her romantic period with photographer Robert Capa in 1945/46? I believe she would have stuck with him if he hadn't been bored silly with Hollywood and gone back to being a war correspondent.