Talk:Iraqi insurgency (post-U.S. withdrawal)
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Use of acronyms
I do most of the editing on List of terrorist incidents, 2012 - it would be easier to use that article and the already sourced attacks to fill in the list of attacks by month in this article. If anyone wants to do the first few months, it would be great - if not, I will eventually get down to it, but towards the end of the year.
In addition to this, I removed the estimates for the size of Sunni and Shi'ite groups. This is something that needs to be researched, since the figures on most other wikipedia articles are ones from 2006-2008, when the insurgency was much stronger. Also, a few of the Shi'ite groups have been disbanded or are in a temporary "truce".
- The large number of attacks perpetrated each day make it impossible to include on the list of terror incidents. Even if you dont approve; can you please refrain from deleting any content that is included (it takes a long time to collect !~126.96.36.199 (talk) 17:34, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
- It does not matter the slightest how long it takes to collect - this is not supposed to be a detailed list of all attacks in Iraq. For the major ones we already have separate articles + a template box in this article - as for everything else, there is Antiwar.com + the Iraq Body Count project. The Timeline part of this article is completely useless as it is, and if nobody touches it soon, I will remodel it when I get a few hours free. For now, I've set up a few work templates to notify users of this. Skycycle (talk) 00:25, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
Suggestion WRT the opening paragraph: "Since the U.S. military's withdrawal, the level of violence has risen,.." -- this seems to be contradicted by the table and chart in the section #Iraq_Body_Count . Perhaps replace with something along the lines of "although the level of violence seems to have stabilised since US forces withdrew, the prospect of a civil war has not abated" ? I'm not an expert on the topic so there's undoubtedly room for improving that wording, though, which is why I didn't make the edit. Comments? imipak
- On the contrary, the numbers in the table clearly show a rise in casualties since December 2011 - not only in the month-by-month comparison, but yearly as well, as evidence by the ~10% rise in total casualties (excluding insurgents) in 2012. In addition, keep in mind that terrorist activity in Iraq has been, since 2003, following a certain trend where attacks increase in size and number during the summer months and then diminish during the winter as insurgents regroup and prepare for their next "summer offensive". I can go on in more detail, if you'd like me to, but I think that's enough for now. However, I do agree that we need a better entry paragraph, I just haven't had the time to properly start taking care of the article in general. Skycycle (talk) 21:43, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
I changed the Casualty section a bit, adding two tables with estimates by the IBC and the Iraqi government. I am still looking for two Iraqi estimates from December 2011 and February 2012, but other than that it would be great if someone with more knowledge takes a look at the tables and plays a bit with them. I know they could fit the article much better, but my knowledge in the area is limited, so please if you have any ideas, share them right here. Skycycle (talk) 00:28, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
Page being moved
You may have noticed the recent (unauthorized and lacking consensus) move of the page to Iraqi insurgency (2011-present) - just to let everyone know, I have started a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents due to the edits done by User: Charles Essie. This has, of course, been discussed before - and post-US phase makes a lot more sense than just slapping a year on it and calling it quits, since it's what characterises the insurgency nowadays, and the conflict has changed. Regardless, hopefully soon some sort of action will be taken against this account, and it will be done and dealt with. Skycycle (talk) 16:11, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
I suggest the creation of a newer, broader article titled Aftermath of the Iraq War. I should include details of all that's happened in Iraq after the end of the occupation, after all there is a page titled Aftermath of the Libyan civil war and the Iraq War's aftermath has been just as important. (P.S. sorry about the unathorized change to the title, it will never happen again). Charles Essie (talk) 00:55, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
- Strongly against, for a number of reasons - the war has not finished, and if anything is only escalating. The Libyan conflict was a short and violent spasm of violence, followed by isolated incidents here and there, and can in NO way be compared to the Iraq War. Furthermore, if you want to add background sections for whatever else you think has happened since the US withdrawal, you are welcome to do so in this article, if they meet the WP standards and are properly written and sourced. However, I believe most essential information is already present, and given the fluid situation on the ground recently, the article will probably be expanded during the summer, some of which I've planned to do already and will when I have a few days off. Keep in mind I did report your account last time, so any further drastic edits or changes to this article will result in this happening again, this time with more serious consequences. Skycycle (talk) 15:57, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
- Support If not that title, then with another. When you say the war has not finished, and if anything is only escalating. The US military action in Iraq was called operation Iraqi freedom and it clearly ended with the US pullout. The article as it is now titled is "Iraqi Insurgency" and while insurgency may be accurate by the definition of the word isn't what's going on more a civil war via individual acts of terrorism?Batvette (talk) 06:57, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
- Agree (with both of you), this is a war, not just a simple insurgency. The question I have is, should this be considered a new war, or a continuation of the Iraq War, I mean, did that war really end with the coalition withdrawal? Maybe it ended for them, but not for Iraq. Charles Essie (talk) 16:07, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
- Agree, but this is really the same civil war since the interim government was formed. Recall that, during the period of U.S. involvement, most of the attacks were between Iraqis. As now, most of the casualties were inflicted by other Iraqis. -- Randy2063 (talk) 17:18, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
useless figures -- "casualty" does not mean death, civilian vs. non-civilian confused, etc.
The figures in this article are almost useless because the word "casualty" is used inconsistently sometimes to mean "death", sometimes in its correct meaning (death or serious injury). I even found the bizarre euphemism "mortal casualty" for "death". Many times the tables that say "Iraq casualties" clearly mean deaths, since they are quoted from the IBC (which usually tracks deaths specifically), but sometimes this is clearly not the case.
Also, in one place there's a table that is described above it as "Following are the monthly IBC Project civilian death totals, from the US pullout in December 2011 onwards" and below it as "The numbers include civilians, as well as members of the Iraqi Army and police forces." Huh??? They either do or do not include non-civilians. Fix this shit!
- Thanks for your input! I do agree that casualty is often confused with death, although it includes injuries as well - will re-word it a bit later today. Will also re-write the bottom one, agreed it is a bit vague since the numbers include everything but insurgents, hence not only Iraqi civilians, but police and army forces as well. Still, it strikes me that you took the time to write all of this, when you could have easily re-written them yourselves and spent less effort while doing it. Also, keep your dirty language to yourself, this is a discussion page on an online encyclopedia, not just a random chatroom ;) Skycycle (talk) 11:47, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
Spillover from Syria and vice versa
How many killed are by those groups who've joined the rebels in Syria and how many have been killed by pro-syrian troops? In other words, how much spillover from Syria is there?Ericl (talk) 20:32, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
- Can you clarify the question a bit more? There are no pro-Syrian troops engaged in Iraq - almost all of the Sunni groups have some degree of presence within Syria though, obviously spearheaded by the Islamic State. Skycycle (talk) 11:49, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
Can we call this a CIVIL WAR now?
I'm not sure if we can call what is going on in Fallujah and Ramadi a full on civil war, or if they are just two battles raging in Anbar Province. There is no indication that the entire country right now is in a state of civil war, although there is undoubtedly an insurgency. It is less clear if Anbar Province is in a state of civil war, or rebellion right now, or if this conflict can be tied to the spillover from Syria. There is certainly military action beyond an insurgency going on in those two cities at this point and the battles probably deserve their own independent articles. --Kuzwa (talk) 23:18, 3 January 2014 (UTC)