|This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:|
|This page was nominated for deletion on 23 January 2006. The result of the discussion was KEEP.|
Need to Eliminate POV
In light of recent revelations and admissions confirming that the Irish Catholic church has been guilty of decades of child abuse, the article should be expanded to explain in detail the position of those who were opposed to Irish Catholics in the United States. John Paul Parks (talk) 06:19, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
I've reverted three paragraphs that were added recently, reproduced below. Some of this test was removed by a new-ish contributer (though not an 'unregistered' one), on Friday, but he was reverted, apparently because he forgot to use an edit summary, although he did attempt to discuss the additions on the contributor's talk page and was rebuked.
- These nations were or are majority Protestant hence both aspects, being Catholic and being Irish, at times separated them from the majority culture. In the United States hostility to both these aspects was expressed through the Know-Nothing movement and general Nativism, even though Maryland was founded by an Irish Catholic Baron Baltimore.
Only reverted italicized portion. Calvert wasn't Irish, he was English.
- Irish Catholic includes people of British origins who assimilate to Irish culture and conventions with or without specifically disowning their roots elsewhere. Aristocrats have been doing that since Norman Ireland (indeed, Viking Irish also held dual affiliations); even Catholic Unionists in the present era are considered Irish Catholics. Plantagenet insurgents who supported impostors such as Lambert Simnel and Perkin Warbeck in the face of Henry VII of England also chose Irish exile from England and their movement spurred Irish Catholic recusancy in face of the later Tudors as well as the Ulster Plantation, which led to Hanoverian and Saxe-Coburg-Gotha eras in Ireland.
- Folks from Northern England such as George Calvert, 1st Baron Baltimore inherited a similar culture that resonated in the Rising of the North and earlier Pilgrimage of Grace. The Calvert family was granted a peerage in Ireland and colonies in America, where those involved in (usually) English recusancy could possibly live undisturbed from the emerging British Protestant standard.
- Some people are exclusive or inclusive in defining the term; there are those who will not accept those of British descent, just as there are some Britons who refuse to accept Irish assimilating or acclimating to British affairs of their own volition--without peer pressure (such as becoming Protestant) to guide them into naturalisation. The issue is a problematic one, tinged with memories of The Troubles.
None of this is sourced, and reads like original research. The phrase "even Catholic Unionists in the present era are considered Irish Catholics" seems extremely POV, especially in light of the slur used on Iamlondon's talk page by the contributor. I hope this explains the reversion appropriately. -- Vary | Talk
- Agreed. And I'd point out that the character who added the above originally then took the trouble to go to my user page and call me an 'Irish Nazi'. Nice. I was trying to politely say, "Interesting, but irrelevant" but got verbal abuse instead. If an Anglo-Irishman / English Catholic baron or any other type of native British convert/otherwise is ever referred to as an 'Irish Catholic' I'll buy each of you a oversized poster of John F Kennedy.Thanks, Iamlondon 03:34, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Added these sections to help give ideas about things to add to this article. Maybe people will expand on this stuff! --Jehan60188 (talk) 16:53, 23 December 2008 (UTC) Wow Wow Wow Geezus. You guys are so dumb except iamlondon. An Irish Catholic is someone who has/is irish(heritage). The Irish have been on their own island nice and happy learning what Patrick told them. There does not have to be name calling you huys are like little girls. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gingerlax20 (talk • contribs) 22:57, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Should be deleted
- The term is over a 150 years old. It's not exactly a neologism.--T. Anthony (talk) 08:42, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Term has widespread currency but misleads many (especially in the US)
I realize that the term "Irish Catholic" has been used for a considerable time to describe persons who are both Irish and Roman Catholic, but I believe that there are many people today who mistakingly believe that "Irish Catholic" is a religion different and separate from "Roman Catholic" (such as "Anglo-Catholic", "Old Catholic", "Eastern Orthodox Catholic", etc., or else is a Autonomous ("sui iuris") Particular Church/Rite, e.g. Greek Catholic, Chaldean Catholic, etc.) which of course is completely erraneous (even though it might have been true to a LIMITED extent during the Middle Ages, before the Irish Church was brought back "into line" by Rome; since that time the Catholicism in Ireland has been one and the same as that of the rest of western Europe). In the vast majority of the cases in modern English, the term "Catholic" means "Roman Catholic". I believe the article should address and clarify this misunderstanding, but I'm gunshy to do it myself, since almost every time I attempt to edit an article it gets reverted. Shanoman (talk) 16:48, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
The Usage of the term
I go to a Catholic school and most of us consider ourselves Irish Catholics. Which is like half of the school. The rest is Italian or you could say "Roman" catholic. But we have some good arguments. Between the Irish and the Italians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gingerlax20 (talk • contribs) 23:41, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Recent revert by Snappy
I really fail to see how the Easter Rising and Irish Civil War are more representative of Catholic-Protestant strife than the Home Rule Crisis, can you explain? Gob Lofa (talk) 23:08, 8 December 2014 (UTC)