Talk:Irish initial mutations

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I have begun moving information from my website at [1], where I can no longer edit it, to Wikipedia. This information is mine, so there are no copyvio problems. --Angr 21:38, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)


In the following sentence:

Ná cuir an bosca ar an mbord.

mbord is eclipsed. I was unable to find an explanation of why that's the case. Does the "ar an" combination trigger the eclipsis or is there some other rule not outlined in the eclipsis section of the article? Help will be much appreciated.-- 20:34, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

In Connacht and Munster, most preposition + singular definite article combinations trigger eclipsis. See Irish initial mutations#Dative singular nouns after the definite article. --Angr/tɔk tə mi 20:45, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
Ah, I missed that section. Thanks much!-- 20:52, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

unusual mutuation in Northern dialects[edit]

In Pedersen's A concise comparative Celtic Grammar (1961) p.60 line 5 for the word <slat> 'rod' is given Arran dialect forms with lenited as hlat and "with the article əN tlat ", and then the Donegal dialect's equivalent forms with lat and tlat. I don't see any such mutations in this article - is this correspondence sl - hl - tl seen in other dialects? Examples? It strikes me as quite puzzling if one wished to explain where the t in tl- comes from. Jakob37 13:58, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

The "l" has nothing to do with it. /h/ is the usual lenition of /s/, and /t/ is an exceptional lenition of /s/ after the definite article an (see Irish initial mutations#After proclitics, toward the bottom of the subsection After the definite article. In the orthography, /hlat/ is spelled shlat and /tlat is spelled tslat. —Angr 14:37, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
Interesting! Are there other initial sounds which undergo "exceptional lenitions"? With s , it seems to be a case (in terms of generative phonology) of the preceding nasal (of the article) containing a stop feature which spreads to the s. Jakob37 04:00, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Except that it only applies when lenition would be expected. I'm pretty much convinced (and have published a paper to this effect) that the Celtic initial mutations cannot be explained by means of phonological rules or constraints at all; rather, they are entirely morphological phenomena. —Angr 05:31, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
May I have a reference to your paper? (altho finding it here in Taiwan may be another matter...)Jakob37 09:59, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Lenition of emphatic N and L[edit]

These are not listed in the article. I would add them myself but I don't have my books with me and I'm not sure about the corrct IPA symbols. ComhairleContaeThirnanOg (talk) 13:04, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

S > Z[edit]

In Munster I believe there is evidence for nasalization of /s/ to /z/, as Sasana > i zSasana. Should this be described in this article? -- Evertype· 12:59, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Sure, if you got a source for it. It can go in Munster Irish, too. Aɴɢʀ (talk) 09:35, 31 August 2013 (UTC)