Talk:Isaac Komnenos of Cyprus

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Untitled[edit]

The accepted spelling seems to be Comnenus, which I found out too late. Could the page be renamed? --Yak 17:49, Mar 11, 2004 (UTC) or even better Isaac of Cyprus, to avoid confusion with Emperor Isaac Comnenos --Yak 22:46, Mar 11, 2004 (UTC)

I moved it to Isaac Comnenus of Cyprus, and made a new Isaac Comnenus disambiguation page just in case anyone makes links to that in the future. (Thanks for making this page, by the way!) Adam Bishop 20:54, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I've added further information about his daughter. Andrew Dalby http://perso.wanadoo.fr/dalby/ 12:49, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

His daughter was probably named irini rather than the english irine. like eleni instead of helen of troy--Slogankid 16:21, 3 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean his mother? His daughter's name, unless it's appeared somewhere in the article and I've missed it, is said to be unknown. As for the spelling, you're right that -i would be the transliteration from modern Greek, but Byzantine articles in Wikipedia use a different transliteration. In fact Eirene would be the preferred form. Similarly, Eleni which you cite is the modern Greek form but not the ancient one. Andrew Dalby 14:47, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Unnamed?[edit]

What does it mean in this clause: "He was son of an unnamed Doukas Kamateros" ? Jan1naD ^{(talk • contrib)} 22:53, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"obscure subject"[edit]

In the Third Crusade section, what exactly does "Isaac is recorded firing two arrows at Richard from horseback, which is notable because Byzantine horse archery is an obscure subject" mean? What is obscure in the byzantine horse archery? And what does this supposedly obscurity has to do anything with the incident? D1177 (talk) 11:41, 18 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The author, Ian Heath recounts that the records of Byzantine horse-archery are rather scarce, and the record involving Isaac Komnenos is one of the more notable cases. Go-Chlodio (talk) 09:35, 20 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

On the contrary, Byzantines made extended use of horse-archers. From Cataphracts to Hun and Turkish mercenaries, the use of horse-archers was anything but scarce as well as the records for its practice. See for example the "Strategikon" of emperor Maurice on the importance of a soldier's training in mounted archery and "Peri Paradromes" of Phokas on horse archery tactics. D1177 (talk) 13:36, 21 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This was alluding to native Byzantine troops using horse-archers, not their mercenaries or auxiliary units, but I did misremember it:
Komnenos of Cyprus firing two arrows at King Richard from horseback in 1191. Certainly, composite bows are depicted amongst the weapons of most military saints in late Byzantine art. It can, therefore, conclude that, despite having fallen out of favor from c. 1150 to c. 1350 ‒ during which period Byzantine sources invariably describe their cavalrymen fighting only with lance and sword ‒ the bow clearly never entirely disappeared. Go-Chlodio (talk) 01:41, 22 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

So, you agree that the phrase "which is notable because Byzantine horse archery is an obscure subject", is obscure itself, right? The confrontation between Isaac and Richard was actually an ambush. History books point to Ambroise of Normandy as a source, that Isaac with 700 men ambushed but failed to stop Richard on his way to Nicosia. D1177 (talk) 12:53, 22 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it should probably be something like:
"While Richard was traveling to Nicosia, Isaac unsuccessful attempt to ambush the company with 700 men. Ambroise of Normandy records that Isaac himself fired to arrows at Richard from the horseback; a Byzantine practice that had begun falling out of favor during the middle of the century."
But we would need another source for your claim. Go-Chlodio (talk) 00:15, 23 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This phrase makes no sense for an encyclopedia article. Half the sentence refers to the incident and the other half to the judgement of an author 1000 years later on how relevant was the weapon and the method used. Imagine having half the article on Lincoln's assassination dedicated on how contemporary or obscure or whatever was the weapon used by Booth.

I will try to locate the source from Ambroise of Normandy and I will edit this phrase to the following:

″ Isaac with 700 men tried to ambush Richard's forces while they were marching to capture Nicosia, but was unsuccessful to do so. During the skirmish, Isaac is recorded firing two arrows at Richard from horseback failing though to do any damage."

D1177 (talk) 14:16, 25 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm fine with that edit. Go-Chlodio (talk) 15:33, 25 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]