Talk:Islam in the United States

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[edit] Incredibly biased information

According to an article in the Washington Post, "backed by money from Saudi Arabia, Wahhabis have built or taken over hundreds of mosques in North America and opened branches of Saudi universities here for the training of imams as part of the effort to spread their beliefs, which are intolerant of Christianity, Judaism and even other strains of Islam."

That would essentially mean that more than 10-20%, at least (they give no concrete figures; they simply say "hundreds"), of the mosques in the United States endorse Wahhabism. This is complete nonsense; in fact, the largest mosques in the USA are Shia Mosques in the Southeast Michigan+Toledo area that primarily cater to Iraqis. Moreover, South Asians are the dominant Muslim community within the United States overall, and they follow the Hanafi school; Wahhabism is practiced almost exclusively by Saudis and others from the Arabian penninsula. Do such radical claims even deserve mention? This essentially amounts to an insult, an accusation and a provocation, not a valid criticism based on evidence. -Rosywounds (talk) 10:44, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

By all means help the entry by editing constructively. I'm sure you are entirely correct, but unless you get a good source or two I can tell you in advance that there are a serious bunch of POV pushing editors who monitor this entry and who will revert good edits based on their bias unless they are sourced (in fact they will do so even then but at least then you have some ground to stand on). Good luck.PelleSmith (talk) 14:47, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Some progressive Muslims want mosques re-designed to make them more woman-friendly"

Actually, in the 1960s and 1970s, a number of mosques were already relatively "woman-friendly" in some respects, until a new wave of more recent immigrants to the U.S. insisted on imposing stricter customs. AnonMoos (talk) 08:58, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Early 20th-century

This article seems to ignore the fact that in the 20th-century before WW2, "non-mainstream" forms of Islam (Ahmadis, precursors to the Nation of Islam, the Nation of Islam) were rather more prominent in the U.S. than "mainstream" forms of Islam. And for a large number of Americans of that period, the first time they heard about American Muslims (or Americans claiming to be Muslims) was during the press coverage of the infamous "Allah Temple of Islam" related human ritual sacrifice murder by Robert Karriem in Detroit in 1932 (see Wallace_Fard_Muhammad#Founding of the Nation of Islam)... AnonMoos (talk) 09:17, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Wdm.gif

The image Image:Wdm.gif is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

  • That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
  • That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --01:13, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Another image

I'm wondering what is the notability of the "Meditation II" image. Even if it is relevant, how is it specific at all to Islam in America, as opposed to Islam in general?VR talk 07:09, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

It relates to a violent incident in Chapel Hill, N.C., so the U.S. angle is present. It was produced by a Muslim and consists of passages from the Qur'an, so the Islam angle is also present. However, it also gives undue emphasis to an artifact produced by a sick mind, implying that it is typical. I've removed it, just as I would remove an image relating to an abortion clinic bomber from a general article on a Christian denomination in the U.S. The image is already present in many other articles more directly related to the image, and linked from this article. In fact, I've seen it before on WP and have found it very interesting and appropriate. Just not in this context. — ℜob C. alias ᴀʟᴀʀoʙ 17:14, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
Yes but this image is not of the violent incident, which would be different altogether. And yes I agree that images should present something of due attention. After all, they are said to speak a thousand words.VR talk 04:25, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] PEW's data on Muslim ethnicity

The article currently states:

"However, when Muslim respondents were asked about their race in a recent Pew Research Center survey, 37% answered White, 24% answered Black, 20% answered Asian, 15% answered "other/mixed race," and 4% answered Latino."

However, according to this source (also by PEW) the data seems to be a bit different. Can somebody please clarify?VR talk 07:20, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Feel free to fix it. It may have been tampered with by a vandal. — ℜob C. alias ᴀʟᴀʀoʙ 17:01, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] History of Islam in the United States

I once created such an article, but it was merged back into this one, per consensus here. The consensus also stated that this article could be recreated should there be enough material present.

At the time the article was tagged for merger, see this version, it was approximately 1,500 bytes. Currently, in my sandbox, it stands at nearly 13,000 bytes.

Do you guys think that the article History of Islam in the United States can be recreated?VR talk 05:16, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Shouldn't some things from Saga America by Dr Barry Fell be added to this section? Such as when he mentions "muslim schools in Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico, and Indiana dating back to 700-800 CE" [1] Faro0485 (talk) 03:49, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

I have these comments:

  • I think the main article benefits from a historical overview of the subject, and am not eager to switch to working on a separate "history of" article.
  • I agree there will probably come a time when we will need a separate, more detailed "history of" article.
  • That time has not come IMO. Besides, I don't think the sandbox article is ready for prime time. It needs a lot of editing, may have OR (e.g. in the first sentence dividing the topic into three arbitrary historical periods), and IMO could make better use of sources. Some of the sentences are just puzzling and need to be eliminated or (briefly) explained.
  • I'll try to participate in the sandbox, but the main article is a higher priority.
  • Barry Fell's books are not reliable sources. His claims do not belong in Wikipedia, except in the article about Barry Fell himself. — ℜob C. alias ᴀʟᴀʀoʙ 04:10, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
The sandbox article was there in prep for another article. Since the main article is of greater priority, and since its in mainspace, I'll go ahead and add the content from there to here. Any edits, concerns can then be addressed here instead of my sandbox/my talk page.VR talk 17:27, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Gender variance

Any statistics on male female proportions? Faro0485 (talk) 18:23, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Good question! I think I saw a book once that documented it. I'll see if I can find it.VR talk 20:01, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion discussion

Just informing editors here of this related deletion discussion. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Criticism of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (2nd nomination). Comments would be helpful.PelleSmith (talk) 13:22, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures of Women

Anyone noticed that all of the pictures put in the article as examples of American Muslims are of men? There should be some women included as well. Hihellowhatsup (talk) 12:03, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

[edit] The claim regarding "Saudi sponsered Wahhabism"

Hi I am just looking at this incredibly biased, propaganda pushing slanderous article and have noticed some inconcistencies.

For starters, the source given here:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/library/congress/2003_h/030626-alexiev.htm

is it used to "prove" saudi's somehow sponser terrorism But it also cinforms that terrorist incicdence have taken place in Rayadh (the capital of Saudi).

So what you are in fact saying, is that saudi is breeding haterd of saudi with their doctrines? Might it be argued that the terrorist ideology is ANTI SAUDI given that they have declared takfir on teh saudi rulers and declared jihad against them? They recently tried to blow up a saudi prince for example.

I dont have time now but Im going prove to people that this myth is nothing but sufi propaganda. They cant defeat the salafi's in a theological debate so they resort to slander

Dawud.Beale (talk) 11:37, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Honor killing

Added Honor killing in the United States, as all/most of them are conducted by muslim americans, clearly relevant to article. Tackylappy (talk) 01:23, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Choice of pics

Concerning the choice of pics in the infobox, were there really no notable female Muslim Americans we could include?--Louiedog (talk) 16:32, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Also, 14/16 of the pics are black Muslims when the demographics section reports only 25% of American Muslims are black. This choice of pics gives a sample that is conspicuously not representative of the population as whole.--Louiedog (talk) 17:04, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
I have added 2 pics of women who are Queen Noor of Jordan and Ellen Burstyn. The reason why most of them in the picture are black is because the majority of famous Muslim Americans are African Americans, because they are well established and are easy to find. I think the reason why there aren't many Arab/South Asian is because most are recent immigrants therefore not many are notable. Dimario (talk) 16:13, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
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