Talk:It Can't Happen Here

Trivia section

Trivia sections on Wikipedia are considered very bad form. All imformation within this section should be dispersed to apropriate places within the article. --The_stuart 18:25, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Inspired by the book, director–producer Kenneth Johnson wrote an adaptation titled Storm Warnings, in 1982. The script was presented to NBC, for production as a television mini-series, but the NBC executives rejected the initial version, claiming it was too 'cerebral' for the average American viewer. To make the script more marketable, the American fascists were re-cast as anthropophagic extraterrestrials, taking the story into the realm of science fiction. The new, re-cast story was the mini-series V, which premiered on May 3 1983.

I moved it back without a trivia section. With that in mind, I also took the conclusion from the previous paragraph about Dick and Roth, and dropped it into its own paragraph. These two should probably go together into a section called "Inspiration for" or something like that (hopefully better). I'll attend to that later if nobody gets to it first. -- Randy2063 18:49, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone have any substantiation or cites for this bit about the relationship with V?

One fan site says, Kenneth Johnson’s V, which begin life as an allegorical look at attempts to resist Nazi occupation in World War II. Johnson... wanted to bring the message of those historical events into modern times and give the Nazis a new face. Originally, V started out as a non-science-fiction movie screenplay called Storm Warnings, in which another country insidiously takes over America with Third Reich-like tactics, but with science fiction particularly hot at that time, Johnson turned his modern-day Nazis into reptilian humanoids... . but doesn't specifically cite ICHH: http://www.thelogbook.com/logbook/v/ Maybe somebody should e-mail Johnson at KennyCJohnson at aol.com --Orange Mike 23:30, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I've removed that paragraph. It's been here for ages and no one's found a source for this assertion. Gamaliel (Orwellian Cyber hell master) 21:01, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Winthrop & Long

The character in question should probably not be said to be based on either Winthrop or Long; it would be more accurate to say that he is drawn from characteristics of each. Of course, it would be even better to cite a published source stating this. Rlquall 17:46, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

The Lede suggests an analogy/similarity to Hitler, the SS, and Huey Long. Huh? Long was a Lefty. The New Deal was too far Right:

"Long's Share Our Wealth plan was established on February 23, 1934 with the motto "Every Man a King." To stimulate the economy, Long advocated federal spending on public works, schools and colleges, and old age pensions. Long argued that his plan would enable everyone to have at least a car, a radio, and a home worth $5,000.[1]"

Today I added the "schools and colleges" part. That trip-up paragraph needs clarification or deletion.

I'm going to delete the paragraph for several reasons, the weakest being, the ref source is not an authority. QUOTE:

"Reviewers at the time, and literary critics ever since, have emphasized the connection with Louisiana politician Huey Long, —who advocated federal spending on public works, schools and colleges, and old age pensions..."

"Connection!????" What Hitler and Long (like Trump) had in common was they were both assholes with many rightfully extreme, serious, and long-lasting enemies. Imagine Elizabeth Warren's goals with Trump's personality. And populism. The "fascist" comparison could be typical wishful thinking from overheated political debates...such as; "FDR (Yo's Mama) was a fascist!"

If this vague "connection" did have any validity, another possible origin could be a misunderstanding of Long's well known quote:   “Of course we’ll have [fascism]. — We’ll have it under the guise of anti-fascism.”   According to https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/03/04/anti-fascism/ in June 1939 Lillian Symes writing in “Harper’s Magazine” seemingly thought the quote was about Lefties like Long, —not by him.

Over the last 60 years multiple scholars have emphasized the links to fascism. I added some cites.Rjensen (talk) 01:08, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

I am currently reading the book, and numerous times in the start, it mentions Huey Long as a separate character. It also states that "He took the United States Senatorship as though it were his manorial right, and for six years, his only rival as the most bouncing and feverish man in the Senate had been the late Huey Long of Louisiana" (Page 35). I feel like this detracts from the idea that Buzz Windrip is based on Huey Long. LiamCorbettWiki (talk) 13:15, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

The Novel’s relevance today

Many have noted that Lewis’s novel is especially timely these “War on Terrorism” days. Here are some other comments on It Can’t Happen Here:
Is It Happening here? – How the “Corpos” – the fascists in the novel – corrupt the English language to get what they want, illustrated with many quotes from the novel.
Book review by Jodey Bateman – “Lewis’s novel was supposed to be made into a film in 1936, but Will Hays who was in charge of censorship for the movie studios, used all his power and stopped the film from being made.”
Can It Happen Here? – “... describes conditions for totalitarianism that exist to this day.”
The Ghost of Vice President Wallace Warns: “It Can Happen Here” – “Buzz Windrip runs his campaign on family values, the flag, and patriotism.”
Bush Foretold by Sinclair Lewis' Classic – “Mr. Bush and his cohorts are taking their lines right out of ‘It Can't Happen Here’ ...”
– Jollyreddonut 00:54, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Science fiction?

Why is this article categorized with "Science fiction novels"? It Can't Happen Here isn't SF by any definition I've ever heard of. Pat Berry 04:31, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

It is a fine example of social science fiction: SF based on extrapolation of cultural changes and developments into the future. Other examples would include Nineteen Eighty-Four, The Space Merchants, The Handmaid's Tale and Fahrenheit 451. Not all science fiction is talking squids in space. --Orange Mike 00:09, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

But even then it's very borderline. It is a stretch to call this book social science fiction. Obviously it shares some elements, but not all dystopian fiction is science fiction. If anything it's speculative fiction, asking the "what if." Perhaps this is a unique book because I can't draw any exact comparisons to other "what if" stories, but he does not use science fiction at all to explore his sociological concepts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.85.252.119 (talk) 06:57, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

"What if" stories are the very CORE of science fiction as a literature; extrapolation, as I said, does not limit itself to the physical sciences. I somewhat see your point of view, but I fear you are artificially constraining the bounds within which you wish to confine "science fiction." To my way of thinking, "speculative fiction" is just an upscale way of talking about fascinating things such as science fiction and fantasy and the interstitial cases such as this one, without having the purity of lit'rachur tainted by the vulgar plebeian roots of the science fiction genre in popular culture. (Yes, I am an working-class SF reader with a bit of a grievance about this topic; see Vonnegut on urinals.) --Orange Mike 17:11, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Where's the 'science'? I don't recall any advanced technology or even futuristic aspects of 'It can't Happen Here'. If 'social science' is not a topic per se, such as Psychohistory in the Foundation trilogy, then it's not even social science fiction. BTW, Heinlein apparently didn't include Fantasy in speculative fiction - not that I care what Heinlein thought, but it illustrates how arbitrary definitions like this are. I've read sci-fi, fantasy, and a lot of other genres for the last 50 years without caring one way or another. Critics of sci-fi on 'intellectual' grounds reveal more about their own intellectual shortcomings than anything else. If science fiction is considered to include all 'speculative' fiction (fantasy or not) it dilutes the definition so as to be almost meaningless. I'd rather keep the genre distinct rather than blur the line so almost any fiction could be argued to be 'science' fiction --YetAnotherCommenter (talk) 01:21, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

This wouldn't qualify as social science fiction. It might seem like that reading it today, but it wouldn't have read that way back in the days of Huey Long and Charles Coughlin, particularly given the background coming out via the book Liberal Fascism. The SF connection may have been intended for its link to V (TV series), but that's not enough to put it here.

-- Randy2063 (talk) 00:21, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Plot

Should be a little bit more of a plot summary (how the initial leader kind of loses interest and is shouldered aside, the change in symbol from the 5-pointed star to the steering wheel, etc.). AnonMoos (talk) 23:51, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

That's a good idea if you're so inclined. I know there's a spoiler warning macro you could use.

-- Randy2063 (talk) 00:25, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

I haven't read the book in over 20 years... AnonMoos (talk) 11:43, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

How the regieme supporters came to be called "Corpos" (from Corporatists) need to be covered; also how this was relavant to actual Fascist states such as the Italy and Portugal of the era. Furthermore, a key plot element of the novel is how Buzz uses emotions and demagogery to wrest the 1936 Democratic Party presidential nomination from FDR; the plausibility is heightened if one knows that Buzz comes to power in a rather conventional way, much as Hitler did, rather than people just waking up one morning & suddenly learning that their country is now being run by a Fascist dictator. 75.225.83.38 (talk) 01:51, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

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"corporatist?" What about "Corporatocracy?"

It says: "enforce the policies of Windrip and his "corporatist" regime."

There's newer term. Could it actually be:

Corporatocracy, from corporate and Greek: - 'domination by', short form corpocracy, is a recent term used to refer to an economic and political system controlled by corporations or corporate interests.  It is most often used as a term to describe the economic situation in the United States.[3][4] This is different from corporatism, which is the organisation of society into groups with common interests. Corporatocracy as a term is often used by observers across the political spectrum. .... corporatization is the antithesis of free market capitalism. It is characterized by semi-monopolistic organizations and banks, big employer confederations, often acting with complicit state institutions, in ways that discourage (or block) the natural workings of a free economy. ....?

Was a warped form of Regulatory Capture involved? I think more fully describing the regime's economics is a key to understanding the book.

Nah its just projection as all the blackshirts are on the DNC's side.

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