Talk:Itaewon

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Changes by User:Hardyandtiny[edit]

The above users visited the Itaewon page and changed some of the descriptions, essentially: "military personnel from Yongsan garrison and the UN base as well as civilian visitors from the wider world" to "foreigners" and "English-speaking cutie peeking out of a doorway" to "prostitute"

I reverted the initial change as I felt it took some of the life out of an article about a vibrant, diverse part of Seoul. I also left a note on the users talk page (along with a welcome message, this is a brand new user) but the change was remade almost instantly. I'd be interested to hear everyone - especially Hardyandtiny's - views on these changes, I personally think the original sounded better and is a great description of what goes on in Itaewon. The changes strike me as somewhat sanitary and that's not, imo, supposed to get in the way of good prose in WP articles. Deizio 01:19, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I would actually tend to favor Hardyandtiny's changes -- at least the ones you mention--, per Wikipedia's preference for clear, succinct writing. "Cutie" is a particularly problematic word. -- Visviva 01:53, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Hmm indeed. I've seen plenty of examples of overly wordy prose in WP, and this isn't in the top league by a long way. "Cutie" refers to a cute girl who is using her cuteness to entice you into something. If you'd ever walked up Hooker Hill you would know the term is more than suitable. If dry text is what people want then that's what they shall have, however the paragraph you've quoted from the style guide also says "Conciseness, however, does not justify removing information from an article."

In any case, Hardyandtiny seems set on writing his own version of Seoul with absolutely no interest in discussion or consensus building with other editors. Such behaviour is, imo, in many ways as bad as including blatant POV or vandalism. I'll be watching his future contributions with interest. Deizio 15:31, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

We updated the thought process a few years...what's next-photography as a hobby, duh?68.49.111.15 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:57, 18 April 2009 (UTC).

In any case, Hardyandtiny seems set on writing his own version of Seoul with absolutely no interest in discussion or consensus building with other editors. S

and in every case hardyandtiny came true..maybe you should say cards to the hards —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hardyandtiny (talkcontribs) 01:17, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

POV[edit]

I was about to comment on how grossly POV this article sounds (it sounds more like someone's travel blog than a bona fide encyclopedia entry to me), but it looks like there has already been some discussion about the situation. I tagged it, but if someone is already carefully monitoring the article, then the tag can be removed. --Merkurix 10:59, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

1. Due to changes in US military policies and a growing number of foreigners in Seoul we felt it was no longer appropriate to emphasize military personnel as customers of the brothels and bars.

2. When considering the wikipedia audience we felt the description of prostitutes as "English speaking cuties" could cause confusion. Hardyandtiny 14:00, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Who is "we"? In any case, you've missed the boat a little, those issues were addressed a while ago - we're talking 17 months since my post above. Please sign your posts by typing ~~~~ - you never need to actually "write" your username. You should also use user talk pages to communicate with individual editors. As your comments pertain to the article generally I've refactored your edit. Deiz talk 11:58, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

We = hardy and tiny. I thought I should respond. Actually those were tiny's changes. Thanks for the tip about signing, and I'll try to use the talk pages from now on. Oh, and what do you mean, you refactored tiny's edit?Hardyandtiny 13:10, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

It's "your" edit - you should register separate accounts if you wish to interact with the community as two different editors. This is an article talk page, but the comment was addressed to one editor. I reformatted the comment in line with Wikipedia style guidelines and the purpose of the page. You can use the history function to examine separate revisions of the page if you want to see the differences between the versions. Deiz talk 13:28, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I understand, we'll just post as hardyndtiny. There's no need to create separate accounts, we prefer to post as one viewpoint. You wanted to know what I meant by "we" - that's all. Okay, I'll try to not use "we" anymore. Maybe we should just delete this entire thing about "we" out of the page now, yeah? [[[User:Hardyandtiny|Hardyandtiny]] 13:37, 13 September 2007 (UTC)]

Best to leave it as is, be honest about the fact that two individuals are editing with one account. Deleting / revising edits (different to "refactoring" which refers to formatting an edit for style reasons) to cover it up would only invite bigger concerns about the account. You should really create a userpage and mention it there as well. Deiz talk 13:47, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, good points. I also prefer discussions left as is. Hardyandtiny 14:07, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

American Ghetto[edit]

I've never heard of Itaewon referred to as "American Ghetto". I don't mind the term, but I've just never heard of it and I've lived in Itaewon for more than ten years. I've always thought of it as the foreigner's district. Do Korean people refer to it as "American Ghetto"? What do you think? Hardyandtiny 14:19, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Can't say I've heard it used much if at all. If it's unsourced, remove at will. Deiz talk 14:23, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
I'll leave it as is until I can propose a major overall change. I think it's a waste of time to "pick at it". I'm just wondering if maybe I've missed a term used by Koreans.Hardyandtiny 14:36, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

How can we contact the person who wrote the section? We don't see their name.Hardy and Tiny 07:55, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I can say that I find the term "ghetto" offensive. Usually, the word has negative connotations, and if anything, Itaewon is not a bad place. I suggest removing that term. Queerbubbles (talk) 17:05, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Gay community cite[edit]

I removed the cite tag for the Gay community section, per WP:WHEN, Subject-specific common knowledge. Anyone even remotely familiar with Itaewon would, I am fairly certain, know this to be true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Otebig (talkcontribs) 17:28, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

subway[edit]

We think the relatively new subway stations have had a huge impact on how the population of Seoul interacts with this area. We think we should create a note within the main paragraph about "the opening".Hardyandtiny (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 21:26, 1 November 2008 (UTC).

We think this should be titled "Subway", and it should included as part of a sub-topic of the overall history. Anyone who has lived in Itaewon through the change knows that the subway stop is directly related to changes in Itaewon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hardyandtiny (talkcontribs) 21:35, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

gay section[edit]

"Over the last decade, a moderately visible lesbian and gay community has emerged"

Instead of timing the advent of the gay community as "over the last decade" we should note the first gay clubs in the area. The first gay clubs in Itaewon were near the current "back alley" where the 3alley pub is now located around 1992. "Over the last decade" does not last. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hardyandtiny (talkcontribs) 21:49, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

red light district[edit]

Itaewon has a red light district, but it is not "Seoul's Red Light District". There are several red light districts in Seoul, the largest is in Miari. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miari. HardyandTiny 02:04, 31 December 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hardyandtiny (talkcontribs)