Talk:Italian Social Movement

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Title[edit]

Hi! I'm Italian. The page Movimiento Social Italiano has got a wrong title, infact the right spelling is Movimento Sociale italiano with a non-capitalized I in italian, because it is an adjective. Could you correct the title of the article? Thank you -- giandrea

Thanks for finding that error. In fact, it appears that the correct capitalization is "Movimento sociale italiano", per Encarta. [1]. Cheers, -Willmcw 22:37, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

I'm also italian and i don't agree. In Italian the parties names got all capitals , whatever the element of the name is a substantive or an adjective. See for example in the italian Wiki http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partito_Comunista_Italiano http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movimento_Sociale_Italiano http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrazia_Cristiana --Neopagan 17:43, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it is true: it is correct to write Movimento Sociale Italiano. I'll correct the page. --Checco 16:46, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


The link to the MSI posters is not working.....

strategy of tension[edit]

This section is part history, part conspiracy. See also this article on Gladio. Intangible2.0 (talk) 00:24, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Title 2[edit]

Some days ago I asked to Nightstallion to move the article for Wikipedia:Most common name. This is our conversation on the issue. --Checco (talk) 14:54, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi Nightstallion, I would like to make you think abou moving Italian Social Movement–National Right to Italian Social Movement. Even if MSI-DN was the official name during the last years of existance of the party, no-one in Italy actually refers to the party as MSI-DN but simply as MSI.

I think it is the typical case of Wikipedia:Most common name: in fact many Italian political parties have or had complicate and long names, but they are or were referred to simply with the shortened name. Examples? For current parties: the Italian Radicals, whose complete name would be "Italian Radicals. Liberal, Liberist and Libertarian Movement, Constituent Member of the Transnational Radical Party", Union of Christian and Centre Democrats, which should be "Union of Christian Democrats and Centre Democrats", Democratic Left, whose complete name would be "Democratic Left. For Socialism", and Lega Nord, which sould be "Lega Nord for the Independence of Padania". For former parties/coalition: The Olive Tree, which was actually named "The Olive Tree–Together for Italy" and Republican Left, whose complete name should have been "Republican Left–Republicans for the Unity of the Democratic Left". --Checco (talk) 10:13, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Mh. Maybe...
BTW, regarding the above: The ÖVP does have one member of government. —Nightstallion 15:26, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
Yes, even I noticed that the People's Party has a member of the Carinthian government. Thanks.
Regarding the MSI, what does "maybe" mean? Is it something we can discuss and decide together? --Checco (talk) 17:25, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
I'm thinking about it; I suppose you're right. —Nightstallion 22:05, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
Okay, there is no hurry about it... think! --Checco (talk) 14:39, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
Many thanks. --Checco (talk) 14:52, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
Gladly. —Nightstallion 17:02, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Predecessor[edit]

I strongly disagree to indicate the Republican Fascist Party as the predecessor of this party. The Italian Social Movement was founded ex novo, the predecession should be removed --Maremmano (talk) 20:54, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

I will re-insert it, explaining that it was not a legal predecessor. More infos are always better, for readers' sake. --Checco (talk) 08:14, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
The facts are more important than opinions, MSI was a new party without predecessors, also if it was founded by some RSI's members. This affirmation needs consensus--Maremmano (talk) 20:10, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
As I told you many times, your legalistic approach is disputable. It is very useful for readers to know from the infobox that, before the MSI, most Fascists were active in the PFR. It is not a wrong information, if accompanied by an explanatory note. Once again, let me tell you that you need to seek consensus before re-proposing an edit which is not supported by consensus. You are free to edit whichever article you want, but, when a user challenges one of your edits and re-instates the previous compromise or established version, you need to stop re-proposing your version and discuss. --Checco (talk) 08:58, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
I don't understand why my edits need always your "nulla osta", stating that the MSI was the successor of PFR is hasty, wikipedia is however an encyclopedia and these affirmations certainly aren't encyclopedic. It seems that you often confuse the consensus with your permission--Maremmano (talk) 11:51, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
Not at all. My opinion counts as yours. However, when only two users are involved in a discussion, the established version must be upheld for it is supported by a former explicit consensus or an implicit consensus. --Checco (talk) 07:44, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
For me it remains an original research, the rules of wikipedia are different...--Maremmano (talk) 22:51, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
This has to do more with English language than Wikipedia rules: "preceded by" does not mean "formal predecessor". --Checco (talk) 10:25, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

I'm with Maremmano on this - this is WP:OR. Do we have a reliable source stating that MSI is a successor of PFR? While I agree that many MSI figures were active in the PFR, I don't think this amounts as a formal or informal "predecessor/successor" status, unless some solid source (e.g. a book on MSI) states this. --cyclopiaspeak! 10:37, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

The PFR was the successor of the MSI, as Christian Democracy was the successor of the Italian People's Party. It is such an obvious thing (most leading members of the PFR joined the MSI, whose "Social" referred to the PFR's Italian Social Republic), that does not need sources, but of course there are plenty of them, starting from Storia del movimento sociale italiano: dalle origini del movimento sociale ai giorni nostri: 1946-1991 and Fascisti dopo la liberazione: Storia del Fascismo e dei fascisti nel dopoguerra in Italia : Dalla Repubblica Sociale al Movimento Sociale Italiano: 1945-1956. Obviously, in 1946 the MSI could not be the formal successor of the PFR: the Italian Constitution forbade (and forbids) the re-creation of the "Fascist Party" (at least under that name). --Checco (talk) 10:56, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
Not an obvious thing at all - and on WP, even "obvious" things need sources. Could you please quote the relevant passages in the sources you mention, and add such sources to the infobox? --cyclopiaspeak! 08:40, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
I agree with Checco. It doesn't need to be a formal legal successor to be considered a successor party academically. Legal status is a technicality. The reasons why it wasn't a formal successor party are much more superficial than the ways in which it is. --4idaho (talk) 19:19, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
I also agree with 4idaho and Checco, in many cases a successor party can be a de facto successor rather than a legally recognised successor organisation, particularly in a case like this where there was a constitutional element to preventing legal recognition.--Autospark (talk) 11:43, 10 July 2014 (UTC)