Talk:Jackson D. Arnold

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License[edit]

I hold the copyright to http://airpower.blogspot.com/2007_12_01_archive.html AND GRANT the Wikimedia Foundation full permission for re-use under the GFDL. I have sent the requisite e-mail to the requested address.

Hap Arnold hap@arnoldoffice.com 67.142.130.28 (talk) 06:16, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

How can I improve this page?[edit]

I would like some suggestions to help improve this page, I have a book at home that I used for the World War II info about Jackson D. Arnold. It's called Tall Dogs and Hellcats, by Robert Swope. I'd like a citation for it, for credit for some of the info.

Calizorinstan (talk) 00:58, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

User:Morinao has done a number of really good articles on U.S. Navy admirals. Some examples are John H. Sides, Ephraim P. Holmes, and Harry D. Felt, to name just a few. Take a look at his to get an idea about how biographical articles are cited, structured. Good luck!--Nobunaga24 (talk) 03:05, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
I took a quick pass through to add wikilinks and a couple of miscellaneous sources, and to edit for style a little. (The original article was, if not necessarily encyclopedic in tone, certainly well structured and engagingly written - a joy to read.) The big issue is going to be how to source all of the wonderful anecdotes about taking MacArthur's chicken, refusing command of Boxer, etc.; it's not enough that they're true, they also have to be independently verifiable, and unfortunately self-published documents like blog entries generally are not considered reliable sources for that purpose. Did the Admiral ever record an oral history or other memoir? Morinao (talk) 05:10, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Not only did the Admiral tell us about turning down the command of the Boxer, it was a poem hanging on his wall. He told us about the MacArthur's chicken incident. Calizorinstan 67.142.130.16 (talk) 05:45, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Here's another anecdote about him shooting craps in Panama as a junior officer. It sounds like he was an amazing guy. I notice that a memorial service is scheduled for next month. I hope it would not be too forward to make the obvious suggestion: that event would be the ideal opportunity to record recollections of the Admiral and his stories for posterity. It might be worth consulting the Naval Historical Center or the U.S. Naval Institute to see whether they could offer any advice or possibly recommend a trained historian for this task. I am sure either organization would be interested in receiving a collection of the Admiral's records. Time, energy, and interest permitting, such records could even form the basis of a posthumous biography along the lines of similar books written by family members of Admirals Jerauld Wright and Robert Carney.
More immediately, I would suggest archiving stories about the Admiral on a blog, and putting a link to that blog in the Sources section of this article. That way you will have complete editorial control and you will not have to worry about hyperzealous Wikipedians deleting your material just because they don't consider you a "reliable source".
By the way, a legible photo of that poem, if available, would make a wonderful addition to this article. It is really something to turn down a ship command and still make four stars! Morinao (talk) 21:25, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

That's a cool ancedote! That's a good idea, not that many people will be there, but if they have any historical memories of him, I will write it down. I am sure that, being the head of Navy Material Command, the Naval Historical Center would be glad to recommend a historian for the task. My father says that he had alot to do with the F-14 getting into the U.S Navy service, and the F-4 before that because of being in the aeronautical department. Also, Dick O'Kane was Admiral Arnold's classmate at the Naval Academy, you might want to mention that. Calizorinstan (talk) 00:20, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Er, just to be clear, I can't talk to the Naval Historical Center about this and I apologize if I gave that impression. They would have to be contacted by someone directly associated with the event, preferably the organizer, with the permission of the Admiral's family, of course. Morinao (talk) 00:58, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I know that, I made a mistake. I was talking about from my father's standpoint. Sorry if I gave the impression you would do it, I know that you wouldn't because what you said above. Calizorinstan (talk) 01:04, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I added a blog with all of the Admiral's stories onto the blog as you suggested, not all of them are on their yet, but he will add more. Calizorinstan (talk) 01:29, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Link to Blog or not?[edit]

TheRingess removed the links to two blogs, airpower.blogspot and adm-arnold.blogspot

I can understand removing the airpower one, it is where the Jackson Arnold story started on line.

At Morinao's suggestion the adm-arnold blog was started to serve as a repository for non-research grade stories. I thought that was a great suggestion, as all of his have been.

Now TheRingess seems to think it non-appropriate. There seems to be an exception for blogs written by "authorities" and as the historian of the Arnold Family and the keeper of the stories, I think I would meet the criteria. It seems a pity to miss out on the link to the oral history left by Jack and his shipmates stories. Comments? Rodentking (talk) 00:44, 12 January 2008 (UTC)Rodentking (talk) 05:03, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I think it is appropriate to link the adm-arnold.blogspot blog here, per the External links policy, which lists among Links to be considered: Sites which fail to meet criteria for reliable sources yet still contain information about the subject of the article from knowledgeable sources.
  • The blog is obviously being written by someone directly affiliated with the late admiral and his family. Family members are unquestionably "knowledgeable sources" for this purpose.
  • The blog is apparently the only independent source of information about the admiral available either online or offline. Even the obituary published in the San Diego Union-Tribune seems to incorporate text written by the blog author.
There seems to be no reason to doubt the veracity of the stories related on the blog (or, at least, no reason to doubt that the admiral used to tell those stories). Conversely, there is no reason to believe that the stories can ever be sourced to the extent required by the Reliable sources policy, meaning they probably could not be integrated into a Featured article. Therefore, the blog provides "a unique resource beyond what the article would contain if it became a Featured article," which would be sufficient justification to link it per Links normally to be avoided.
- Morinao (talk) 00:01, 19 January 2008 (UTC)