Talk:Jane Fonda

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Good article Jane Fonda has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Wikipedia CD Selection
WikiProject icon Jane Fonda is included in the Wikipedia CD Selection, see Jane Fonda at Schools Wikipedia. Please maintain high quality standards; if you are an established editor your last version in the article history may be used so please don't leave the article with unresolved issues, and make an extra effort to include free images, because non-free images cannot be used on the DVDs.
 
Version 0.5      (Rated GA-Class)
Peer review This television article has been selected for Version 0.5 and subsequent release versions of Wikipedia. It has been rated GA-Class on the assessment scale (comments).

"Born again" Christian?[edit]

I have not read any reliable sources where Jane Fonda describes herself and being a "born-again" Christian; she simply says "Christian". There is a difference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.115.148.45 (talk) 06:44, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Ms Fonda explained her Christian faith at a speech in Santa Barbara; 'I am a Christian who sees God as a God who is opposed to War, a God who hates the rape of the Environment, the Christ I see is a Christ who approves of same sex relationships'.Johnwrd (talk) 09:05, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

In other words, she has modeled a "Christianity" completely to her own liking, and rejected its other aspects. John Paul Parks (talk) 20:40, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

As, indeed, have most of the major denominations of Christianity and thus most of it's practitioners. AiFWww (talk) 21:20, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
And as have most "Christian" Conservatives who have seemed to have conveniently forgotten about things like mercy for the poor and the chances of a rich man getting into heaven.108.66.54.241 (talk) 20:13, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
Please keep discussions about the article and the OP's question, not personal opinion of ""Chistian" Conservatives" or otherwise. Editthat18 (talk) 03:25, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Article clean-up[edit]

Having read in the archives that some were critical of the choppy writing style in the first part of the article, I moved a few things around and did some rewording, trying to create a smoother flow. I removed reference to Peter Fonda being an actor in the ACTING, as that is referenced in the BACKGROUND section above. Also consolidated the school references into BACKGROUND, specified that she was signed with the Ford Modeling Agency to pay for acting classes, other fashion magazines that featured her on their cover in her modeling days, and spelled-out the various ages listed, to create consistancy. Hope this is agreeable to most. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.68.248.65 (talk) 23:01, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Ooops....someone reverted it all back. Well, I tried.
Okay, I have reverted back to my changes. Might someone please point out what they disagree with, if they feel my rearrangements, expansions and corections are unwarrented? Thank you. Codenamemary (talk) 01:19, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
And I will revert it back. You have come in to an article designated a good article and proceeded to break up content that rightly belongs in the same paragraph, added unsourced content, stuck in unsourced ages (where did you get those?) and basically mixed it all up. You weakened the flow of the article and have jeopardized the GA rating. That's why I reverted you the first time and that's why I am reverting it now. Wildhartlivie (talk) 02:12, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
Well, it looks like making changes here would be a torturous process, so shall leave you to it. But as an example of what I adapted, it doesn't make sense to follow "Fonda became interested in acting in 1954, while appearing with her father" in one section with "She recalled that at the age of five, she and her brother, actor Peter Fonda, acted out Western stories similar to those her father, Henry Fonda, played in the movies." Clearly, she had an interest in acting at age 5, which is why I added "became interested in acting professionally" to the earlier reference. Also, that sentence about the games doesn't make sense, because if you deconstruct it, it's not gramatical to say her father "played western stories in the movies". And why should Her brother, Peter Fonda (born 1940), and her niece Bridget Fonda (born 1964), are also actors. She is the mother of Vanessa Vadim from her marriage to Roger Vadim and Troy Garity from her marriage to Tom Hayden be in her "Background" section? Those first two sections I edited are rather patched-together and incongruous as it stands now, and, since you reject my changes and I'm not interested in debating these obvious oddities in the article much deeper, I will merely encourage editors to pay some extra attention to them. If you cannot see that the edits strengthen the entry (such as putting all her education in one place, and elaborating on her early modeling career), then okay. Best wishes Codenamemary (talk) 03:09, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
Then why are you still going on about it? You made changes and added content that wasn't sourced, such as "figuring" her age. The entire family relationships are covered in background, that's fine. Cutting the brother and children into a separate paragraph doesn't fix anything. Wildhartlivie (talk) 04:04, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Infobox photo[edit]

An editor came through and removed the 2005 photo of Fonda File:Jane Fonda 2005.jpg and replaced it with one from the mid-1990s File:Jane Fonda Cannes nineties.jpg. I reverted that mostly because we tend to use more recent photos in the infoboxes and not ones showing the currently working actor from a previous decade. Another editor reverted me, saying "Bzzzt; Cannes photo is perfectly acceptable". Yeah, well, it's a photo, but it's at least 15 years old and doesn't represent Fonda as she looks today. Consider that she's still a working actor and we should present her as she looks now. Thoughts and comments please. Wildhartlivie (talk) 01:20, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I'd respectfully say that between the 2, I prefer the shot that shows more of her face. The one from a book signing has her in dark glasses, and is taken from above, which doesn't really let you see her face so much. Perhaps there's a more current, full-face shot that doesn't violate any copyright policies? Codenamemary (talk) 01:59, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
I was thinking one way to get a more current free use (or whatever you call it) image of Fonda might be to take a screen capture from any news interviews she did to promote Monster in Law or Georgia Rule, or any of her more recent activities? I was watching a documentary lately, and they claimed news footage can be used by anyone. So, maybe there isn't a difference between a screen capture from news footage, and actual news footage? Just trying to think of a solution that might make people happy. Wildhart, do you know if this might be acceptable, as per wiki rules?Codenamemary (talk) 19:20, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
No it isn't. A screencapture of a copyrighted work is still from a copyrighted work. That only legitimately works for captures from something non-copyrighted, like film trailers whose copyright status has expired. Wildhartlivie (talk) 23:59, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Just want to comment that the text just prior to footnote #19 is not only poorly worded and grammatically incorrect, it's also pure bias and not fit for inclusion. Currently, the text reads as follows:

"...Fonda gave a speech saying; "I would think that if you understood what Communism was, you would hope, you would pray on your knees, that we would someday become communists." Even though those communists killed hundreds of thousands of Americans. Jayne Fonda killed many Americans when they were POWs she turned them in when they told her to tell their family they were okay. The Communists would torture or murder those poor Americans. [19]"

The quote may be accurate - that I do not know - however, what follows the quote is idiocy. 8 mouse 8 (talk) 21:47, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

That is vandalism and it has been removed and the page protected from IP editing due to content additions like that. It violates WP:BLP. Wildhartlivie (talk) 23:57, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Opposition to nuclear power[edit]

I'm adding information from Three_Mile_Island_accident to her article her about political activism. Wikieditorpro (talk) 10:24, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

  • I dont see anything about her anti-nuclear activism - is that solely based on her acting in The China Syndrome? Because if that is her sole reason for inclusion on that list, she specifically said she was not anti-nuclear and did not intend the film to be anti-nuclear Ottawakismet173.230.166.175 (talk) 19:37, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
  • there are some mentions here: Three_Mile_Island_accident#Activism_and_legal_action however I can't seem to be able to verify the mentioned sources Hogdotmac (talk) 01:31, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Filmography[edit]

I have some qualms about it. Her made-for-TV movie "A String of Beads" is not listed. And "archival footage" does not count as filmography, so it should be removed. And why are her "self" appearances listed in her filmograhy? Those should be removed.Closeminded8 (talk) 20:32, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Mentions nothing of her 1970 arrest for drug smuggling?[edit]

Come on Liberals, wake up! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.1.159.105 (talk) 22:17, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Is there some reason to this comment? AiFWww (talk) 21:24, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
liberals? stop being an american centric please, bush did drugs and nobody cares (also choked on a pretzel and didn't die, sadly enough) Markthemac (talk) 05:28, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

The "drugs" turned out to be vitamins and the "arrest" appears to be harassment by the Nixon administration -- vitamins tested, charges dropped.GretDrabba (talk) 16:22, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Lady Jane Seymour Fonda[edit]

So it says in one part (poorly cited by the way) that she is a distant relative to Lady Jane Seymour, wife of The King of England at that point in time.

However in the infobox it says her name is "Lady Jane Seymour Fonda". Is this an actual title, or is her first name actually Lady? What I mean to say is, she clearly is not a Lady of the Peerage. But if you are claiming she is, a citation for an actual peerage should be included somewhere. I'll look back in a week or so and if no one has changed it, or commented on this, then I will modify the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.25.93.46 (talk) 05:42, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

The reference theoretically backs up the sentence - though it certainly could have been altered after the fact, and should be checked again if there is a dispute to the entry. I don't think that the infobox is misleading, as it says she was born as "Lady...": it's not a title. Doc talk 06:00, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
From the reference cited:

They named me Lady Jayne Seymour Fonda. "Lady"! That was actually what the called me! Later, when I went to school, the cloth name tapes that had to be sewn onto my collar read LADY FONDA. Apparently I was related to Lady Jane Seymour, third wife of Henry VIII, on my mother's side.

Fat&Happy (talk) 06:17, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
Looks good :> Doc talk 06:32, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Hanoi Jane[edit]

During her visit to North Vietnam, Jane Fonda caused a captive, a USAID worker named Michael Benge, to be tortured for three days because he refused to co-operate in propaganda meetings with Jane Fonda. Also, a lot has been said about the anti-aircraft gun she sat at but little is known about the piece. It was a AZP-57 optical-mechanical computing site at the fire control position of a 57mm towed anti-aircraft gun (Soviet S-60/Chinese Type 59) of a three gun anti-aircraft battery. Dozens of photos were taken of her smiling, laughing and clapping at the gun emplacement. --re: "Eyewitness Vietnam", Gilmore and Giangreco, Sterling Publishing, New York, 2006, pg. 217. Also: Here's something else I heard but have been unable to find any RS for: apparently President Nixon tried to assasinate Jane Fonda twice during her visit to North Vietnam with Black Ops teams but they were unable to get close enough to her to complete the mission. Anybody else heard anything about this or is it just an urban legend? 70.140.218.115 (talk) 00:43, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

"Her visits to the POW camp led to persistent and exaggerated rumors repeated widely in the press, and decades later have continued to circulate on the Internet. Fonda has personally denied the rumors..." Doesn't say what rumours. 109.154.7.66 (talk) 22:24, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

There is no reason to repeat the rumors and exaggerations, as they are rumors and exaggerations. What she did is well documented and bad enough. There is no reason to add rumors. Tomsv 98 (talk) 23:31, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

In his 2010 book "Hanoi Jane: War, Sex, and Fantasies of Betrayal," Jerry Lembcke challenges and puts in context much of the Hanoi Jane imagery. "Hanoi Jane," he argues, has become a cultural trope that helps construct a betrayal narrative for why the war in Vietnam was lost. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.247.174.2 (talk) 13:36, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

The alleged anti-aircraft gun photos resulted in a "phony scandal."173.72.111.87 (talk) 03:04, 12 August 2013 (UTC)BaruchSzotero

usage of plebe[edit]

perhaps a link? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plebe_summer I had to look up what a plebe was and what it meant. There is currently no link. This is under the "Hanoi Jane" section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.58.44.3 (talk) 19:51, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Described as "communist" in google search result[edit]

Searching for Jane Fonda in google gives:

Jane Fonda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Fonda - Cached Jane Fonda (born Lady Jayne Seymour Fonda; December 21, 1937) is an American actress, writer, communist, political activist, former fashion model, ... Frances Ford Seymour - Barbarella - Ted Turner - Vanessa Vadim

but this is not in the actual Wikipedia entry, which says:

Jane Fonda (born Lady Jayne Seymour Fonda; December 21, 1937) is an American actress, writer, political activist, former fashion model, and fitness guru.

Why the disparity? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.115.27.11 (talk) 21:38, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

The disparity existed for only a short period of time. Earlier today, someone editing as an IP address originating from the AAFES Barracks in Phoenix, Arizona (either someone in the National Guard or at Luke Air Force Base) vandalized the article and added "communist" to the opening paragraph. Lhb1239 (talk) 00:06, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

1969, 1970, 1971 communist quote[edit]

In a 1970 address at Michigan State University Fonda gave a speech saying; "I would think that if you understood what Communism was, you would hope, you would pray on your knees, that we would someday become communists."

I have looked and looked and can not find a reliable source. It seems to be another rumor passed along.

Many people pass along the quote on web pages, in book essays, etc., but I have yet to find the original source for this quote. People say 1969, or 1970, or 1971. Some say Michigan State University or University of Michigan.

If it is a true quote, then of course it should go in the article. But it would be a violation of WP:BLP to include it otherwise. "We must get the article right. Be very firm about the use of high quality sources. All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be attributed to a reliable, published source using an inline citation. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion.[1] Users who constantly or egregiously violate this policy may be blocked from editing." --Timeshifter (talk) 14:50, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

There are many sources for this quote. Apparently, the orginal can be sourced to Lee Winfrey of the Detroit free press. Since the Freep does not have digital archives from that time period and it doesnt show up in Google news arvhive, you would have to find it some other way. I did find a reference from a 1975 article that uses a verbatim quote from Winfrey's original article [1]. This, the fact that the quote has been so widely dublicated, the lack of even one source that refutes it and Fonda's politics means its highly likely that this is not just some rumor. Certainly the source I used in my last edit was reliable so how many more do you need? I too am puzzled by the discrepancy in the dates. ZHurlihee (talk) 15:00, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
He passes along an alleged quote. It seems lots of people pass on Jane Fonda quotes complete with alleged source and author. Many of these alleged quotes have been proven to be completely bogus. See the many examples given in the Jane Fonda article references.
There were only 4 results with this Google search for "detroit free press" "Lee Winfrey" "Jane Fonda":
http://www.google.com/#q=%22detroit+free+press%22+%22Lee+Winfrey%22+%22Jane+Fonda%22
None of the results mentioned this communism statement. With a statement this radical, I would think someone reliable in the mainstream media would have passed along the quote with detailed source info. --Timeshifter (talk) 15:42, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Are you stating the article I cited above doesnt qualify as a WP:RS? ZHurlihee (talk) 15:47, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
It passes along the quote along with Lee Winfrey's name. This Google search below pulls up nothing that mentions the communism statement:
http://www.google.com/#q=%22Lee+Winfrey%22+%22Jane+Fonda%22+communism
It searches for "Lee Winfrey" "Jane Fonda" communism. This quote just has no basis in fact as far as I can tell. --Timeshifter (talk) 15:56, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
As I've said at WP:BLPN, this has all the hallmarks of a phony quote. There appear to be no contemporaneous press reports to verify it, or even that Fonda appeared at the college in question (on the date involved or otherwise). There are multiple dates given for the quote, and multiple locations -- the earliest print reference I've seen, in 1972 puts it at Duke University, for example. If Fonda had said something like that, and it had been reported in a major newspaper, it would have been picked up in wire service reports and widely published. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 18:17, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
  • If I were to find an original copy of the article and verify the quote, would that be sufficient? I might add that my local library is currently asking for a copy of two articles from the Detroit Public Library, the only place that has copies of the non digitized Free Press, and will have them for me within a week or so. The two dates are November 21 1970 and November 22 1969 and according to the index records Lee Winfrey published an article on both of those dates. If the quote is to be found in either, I would suspect it to be the November 21 1970 as she was in Detroit then. ZHurlihee (talk) 20:10, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
  • It appears that the school is actually Central Michigan University. [2]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ZHurlihee (talkcontribs) 20:17, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
    • That only says Fonda spoke at the university, not that she said anything about hoping and praying for communism. Binksternet (talk) 19:00, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
      • I realize that, but it does establish the fact that she spoke to an audience at a university in Michigan when the quote was supposely made. ZHurlihee (talk) 15:32, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Barbara L. Tischler[edit]

In the Bloch/Umansky book published by NYU Press, Barbara L. Tischler is the author of a chapter called "'Hanoi Jane' Lives: The 1960s Legacy of Jane Fonda". Tischler says Fonda spoke the pray-for-communism bit on November 22, 1969, at Michigan State University in East Lansing, on the occasion of the sixth anniversary of JFK's assassination.

Tischler is a lecturer and writer on the anti-war movement in the US. She is the director of curriculum at the Horace Mann School in NYC. She teaches US history at Teachers College, Columbia University. She is a Distinguished Lecturer with the Organization of American Historians. The editors who approved the Tischler chapter are both professors: Avital H. Bloch is a research professor at the Center for Social Research, University of Colima, Mexico, while Lauri Umansky is a professor of history at Suffolk University in Boston.

Rather than worry about finding the original copy in the Detroit Free Press, or worry about whether DFP reporter Lee Winfrey correctly transcribed the quote firsthand, or perhaps copied it secondhand, we can settle upon the quote as it appears in this scholarly book and run with it. If Tischler—sympathetic to Fonda—judged it worthy of inclusion then we have no reason not to include it. Binksternet (talk) 18:58, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

And as we all know, academics are infallible. For God's sake, that report's obviously dubious. Fonda's prominent political activity didn't even begin until 1970. In November 1969 she was promoting They Shoot Horses, Don't They and this is a typical example of her press at the time.[3] (The full-length piece originally ran in the New York Times, but it's behind a paywall. No political references in that version, either. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 21:25, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
I just dropped a note to Tischler at her Columbia U. email to see if she can tell us what she used as a source. Until we can prove her wrong, we should stick with our guideline for reliable sources, which of course assumes that the scholarly source is correct. Binksternet (talk) 01:42, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
In her notes at the end of that essay she referenced other info but not the communism quote. --Timeshifter (talk) 18:11, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
Our guidelines are not an intellectual suicide pact. Note that the source you're insistent on also has Fonda saying she'd met Huey Newton before the end of 1969, even though he was in California prison for killing a police officer until mid-1970. Sometimes academics make dumb mistakes, too, and WP:LEMMINGS is neither policy nor guideline. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 03:31, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
If I had Fonda's email, I'd ask her to come here and comment. :P
Newton's well documented time in jail puts a bad light on any other account placing him outside of lockup. However, we do not have an alibi for Fonda, saying she was elsewhere. I'm as curious as anyone to find out when or whether she said this bit. Ideally, we would find a dated first person account in some news publication. Binksternet (talk) 04:25, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Possible original source and claim of fabrication[edit]

The News and Courier (South Carolina), 29 December 1970, reports as follows: [4]

At Duke University, she engaged in the following dialog (as reported by Jesse Helms on WRAL-TV): Miss Fonda: "I believe that we have to strive for a transition to a socialist society. First..." Interviewer: "How far?" Miss Fonda: "All the way to communism. I mean I think we should, uh, I think we should all study what the word means and I believe that if everyone knew what the word meant we would all be on our knees praying that we would, as soon as possible, be able to live under, uh, within a communist structure." After quoting the statement, Mr. Helms pointed out that "the left-wingers deny that there is any communist motivation or provocation behind such agitators as Jane Fonda. And more important, the liberal news media refuse to tell the whole truth about what's going on."

Nixonland: The Rise of a President and the Fracturing of America by Rick Perlstein (Simon and Schuster, 2008) says on p 517 that Jesse Helms invented the quote.[5] Helms was a fervent anti-communist and the N&C piece made clear he was making capital out of the quote. There's another supposed source: "Christian Anti-Communist Crusade", 1970, sources it to Michigan State University as reported in the Detroit Free Press, Sunday 22 November 1970.[6]. Fences&Windows 23:46, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Very interesting; I can believe it might have been a Helms invention. On the other hand, Perlstein's sweeping, colorful and dense book Nixonland, in turn, has been criticized for inaccuracies such as Perlstein saying that B-52 copilots wore sidearms to shoot the pilot if he did not follow orders to drop a nuclear bomb, and for saying that tanks were part of the National Guard response at Kent State, along with some more mistakes. His sweeping work is a marvelously fun read but it covered too much territory for everything in it to be well-researched. Binksternet (talk) 00:41, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
This isnt the quote in question. ZHurlihee (talk) 15:32, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Of course it's the quote in question! Have you never played Chinese whispers? In the absence of a real quote to research, each journalist or author who quotes it mangles it in the process. By 1972 it was already changed as quoted by Paul Scott in the Lewiston Daily Sun on 27 Sept 1972. "On Dec, 11, 1970, in a speech at Duke University, Durham, NC, Miss Fonda stated: "I would think that if you understood what communism was, you would hope and pray on your knees that we would someday be communists. I am a socialist. I think that we should strive toward a socialist society - all the way to communism"."[7] You can see how the wording is rejigged and reordered to make it more of a soundbite, but the original source is plainly the Helms quote.
Binksternet, we have no real reason to doubt Perlstein's claim that the Fonda quote was fabricated by Helms, unlike our reasons to doubt the accuracy of the reporting of the academic who supplied a quote using the wrong year (1969). Perlstein slightly expands on his claim in a 2005 London Review of Books article, so he seems pretty sure about his facts: "They tapped their network of friendly media propagandists, like the future Senator Jesse Helms, then a TV editorialist, who supplied an invented quotation that still circulates as part of the Fonda cult’s liturgy. Supposedly asked – it isn’t clear where or by whom – how far America should go to the left, she said, according to Helms: ‘If everyone knew what it meant, we would all be on our knees praying that we would, as soon as possible, be able to live under . . . within a Communist structure.’" That makes clear he was referring to the quote I found and specifically stating that it was made up.[8]
Btw, I found a document by UNC-TV that refers to the Helms broadcast so we know the date now and this confirms the gist of the content: "broadcast #: 2481. date: 12-17-70. topic: Jane Fonda. comments: Uses recent speech at Duke University by Jane Fonda to criticize the actress. Maintains that she partakes in the long-standing tradition of liberals dismissing the notion of communist infiltration. Accuses the media of hiding Fonda’s communistic proclivities from the American people." [9] As for Helms' motivation, UNC-TV points out that in 1970, "As the United States sinks deeper into the Vietnam conflict, Helms switches political parties. Up until this point, despite his conservative views, Helms has been a registered Democrat", and another article on Helms says that "Using pious incitement--especially fears rooted in challenges to the South's racial arrangements-to undermine liberalism was central to his method on television."[10]
Bottom line: It's fair to say that we don't know whether Fonda even said it, what exactly she was supposed to have said, to whom, when, and where, and there's good reason to believe that it was invented by one of her political opponents. Including a disputed quote like this in a biography would be sheer folly. Fences&Windows 22:01, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
With the waters so muddied, it's wise to keep the bit out of the article. Binksternet (talk) 00:25, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
On Nov. 21, 1970 she told a University of Michigan audience of some 2,000 students, "If you understood what communism was, you would hope, you would pray on your knees that we would some day become communist." At Duke University in North Carolina she repeated what she had said in Michigan, adding "I, a socialist, think that we should strive toward a socialist society, all the way to communism."

I kept checking for a reliable source in the news, and found this thankfully. That clears things up. Dream Focus 00:26, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

No, it does not clear up the muddled news sources, it simply adds on to the pile. What is needed at this point is a scan of a primary source, ideally Detroit Free Press. Binksternet (talk) 00:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Unfortunately, the newspaper's online archive only goes back to 1999. Someone would probably have to travel to the Detroit main library to find a copy.   Will Beback  talk  01:23, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia is verifiability not truth. If this many reliable sources say it, then we go with it, regardless if anyone personally doubts it. People were writing about this in the news back in the 1970's, and continuously since then. [12] Dream Focus 06:17, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Keep on dreaming. See WP:BLP. --Timeshifter (talk) 06:30, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
"Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion." I don't see anything on there concerning this. It has reliable sources, so its fine. Dream Focus 06:48, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Consider the word 'questionable'. We have supposedly reliable sources naming different colleges at which the speech was given, and different dates. Doesn't that make you think the quote is questionable? It does to me. Binksternet (talk) 06:52, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
The Washington Times piece is an opinion piece which is never used in BLPs. Washington Times is notoriously unreliable in these type of ranty personal-voice articles, the authors generally relying on whatever they read on the internet without any fact-checking (I'm not sure if the Washington Times even has a fact-checking department anymore). We would need something a lot more reliable than that. --Loonymonkey (talk) 17:42, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Nickname[edit]

Added her nickname Hanoi Jane — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joey9999 (talkcontribs) 22:20, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

That was unnecessary and non-neutral. The issue is covered in detail in the Jane Fonda#"Hanoi Jane" controversy section.   Will Beback  talk  22:35, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

People know there as that name. That is not unneutral. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joey9999 (talkcontribs) 01:02, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

"Goodnight Jane Fonda"[edit]

The "Hanoi Jane" controversy cites students at the U.S. Naval Academy shouting "Goodnight, Jane Fonda", followed by "Goodnight, bitch." However, this practice has fallen by the wayside and is in fact prohibited by the Plebe Summer Standard Operating Procedures.

Jake.compton (talk) 16:30, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 2 July 2012[edit]

External links

184.78.81.245 (talk) 05:32, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Done Rivertorch (talk) 22:29, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Her sister?[edit]

Look, she maybe controversial, but even the Henry Fonda page mentions her sister Amy. Needs to be added in the side bar next to her brother Peter. 143.232.210.38 (talk) 18:52, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

drug charges[edit]

there's no mention of her drug smuggling charges either. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 16:04, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Which is probably more appropriate to an article on stupid police tricks or abuse of authority than here. [13] Fat&Happy (talk) 19:03, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
  1. ^ Jimmy Wales. "WikiEN-l Zero information is preferred to misleading or false information", May 16, 2006, and May 19, 2006; Jimmy Wales. Keynote speech, Wikimania, August 2006.

Mentioning a celeb being against the Iraq war in the lead[edit]

I don't think that is appropriate to be mentioned in the lead, don't you? Fonda's opposition to the Vietnam War should be mentioned, since that is infamous. But the Iraq war and violence against women? Practically everybody is in Hollywood is against those issues, and you don't see that mentioned in the introductions on their Wiki pages. There's a section on Fonda's page that covers that, so why mention it in the lead? Shipofcool (talk) 23:30, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

She is an anti-war protester, hence the mention of her opposition to both the Vietnam & Iraq wars. She is also quite active world-wide in issues regarding violence against women, and there are several sections in this article detailing it. The lead is a summary of those sections. You may be correct that "Practically everybody is in Hollywood is against those issues", but how many of them demonstrate on the Gaza Strip, march on the National Mall, protest on the streets of Mexico or outside of the residence of Israel's Prime Minister? Exactly, and that's why you don't see it mentioned in the lead in their Wiki-articles. And yes, there was controversy generated on more than just her anti-Vietnam War activities.
Now what's with the "self-proclaimed" qualifier in the description of her as Christian?
Really good work on the rest of the article, by the way. Much cleaner. Xenophrenic (talk) 04:38, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
Okay, thanks for elaborating on that.

::Regarding the "self-proclaimed" qualifier, I'd googled the phrase "self-proclaimed Christian" just to see if it was a commonly used phrase (and it was) and thought it was appropriate for the article and would eliminate any ambiguity. Shipofcool (talk) 19:06, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

I don't see the need for "self-proclaimed" as a qualifier. If a person says they are a practicing member of a religion, we pass that statement to the reader. Only if that statement is questioned by others do we worry about balancing several viewpoints. Binksternet (talk) 19:10, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

That's not Alan Light![edit]

An editor (Trudyjh (talk · contribs)) has complained on Jimbo's talk page that she tried several times to change the caption of the image in the Retirement and Return section to state that it shows Robert Redford, not Alan Light, but her changes were reverted. It seems pretty obvious that she is correct -- Light was the photographer, not the subject. Photos of Light can be found on the net in various places, and he doesn't look anything like that. Of course she should have raised the question here, but let's skip over that -- can we go ahead and fix this? Looie496 (talk) 18:49, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Note that there appear to be two different Alan Lights ... one was an editor for Rolling Stones, Vibe, and Spin magazines (this appears to be the one that Trudyjh is saying the subject in this photo does not resemble). The one on Flickr from where this image is sourced claims to be a retired photographer. --- Barek (talkcontribs) - 18:57, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
A quick search turned up a few additional photos claiming to be Alan Light and who appears to be the same person as in the questioned photo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alan-light/255566969/ , http://www.flickr.com/photos/alan-light/211177549/ , http://www.flickr.com/photos/alan-light/211276377/ , and http://www.flickr.com/photos/alan-light/210431823/ --- Barek (talkcontribs) - 19:02, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, but no. Alan Light actually looked like that in 1990.
As you can plainly see, Alan Light has a passing resemblance to Robert Redford, but not enough to completely confuse the eye. The photo in question is certainly Light with Fonda, not Redford with Fonda. Binksternet (talk) 19:11, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Clearly I stand corrected. Looie496 (talk) 19:14, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Jane Fonda to Star in ABC Comedy Pilot[edit]

According to a Variety story dated 24 Oct 2012, Fonda is going to star in a sitcom pilot to be shot for ABC, titled Now What? --173.76.62.253 (talk) 00:16, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Age[edit]

She is now 75 years old. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.237.34.211 (talk) 14:17, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Yup. Doc talk 14:33, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Adopted daughter Mary[edit]

Where is mention of her adopted daughter Mary?

Bonnie and Clyde[edit]

It says she turned it down, but she said on Watch What Happens Live that it was a role she auditioned for and didn't get. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.46.189.100 (talk) 06:41, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 12 April 2013[edit]

Please change: 'For example, at the U.S. Naval Academy, when a plebe shouts out "Goodnight, Jane Fonda!", the entire company replies "Goodnight, bitch!"'

To: In a discontinued practice at the U.S. Naval Academy, a plebe shouting "Goodnight, Jane Fonda!" was followed by "Goodnight, bitch." However, this practice has fallen by the wayside and is in fact prohibited by the Plebe Summer Standard Operating Procedures.

Reason: This practice has been disallowed for many years, and is explicitly forbidden in Plebe Summer SOP. See: http://www.usna.edu/Commandant/Instructions/COMDTMIDNINST_3120.1J_PLEBE_SUMMER_STANDARD_OPERATING_PROCEDURES.pdf , page 5-4. (Note: this is a hotlink and may not be current. Search for "naval academy plebe summer standard operating procedures" for an updated link.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.69.49.144 (talkcontribs) 12 April 2013

Done, with slight modifications to fit better with the rest of the paragraph. BryanG (talk) 16:01, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

COINTELPRO target[edit]

Jane Fonda was an FBI COINTELPRO target; see The COINTELPRO Papers by Ward Churchill, which reproduces evidence obtained through FOIA.[14] Can someone please add the appropriate category? 2001:558:6045:1D:56E:DCCB:ED9D:24EA (talk) 04:29, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Frisian origin[edit]

the Fondas are of Frisian orgin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Frisians, of Dutc-Frisian origin to be precise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.211.162.42 (talk) 21:16, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Edit request -- contentious material about a living person[edit]

This sentence should be removed: "The New York Post reported that during one interview promoting the film, "actress Jane Fonda wears 'Hanoi Jane' T-shirt". It's in the regrets section. It is contentious material involving a living person and as such needs to be removed immediately.

The t-shirt did not say "Hanoi Jane" and it had nothing to do with that issue. The Post claims it is a Hanoi Jane T-shirt because that's how the Post refers to her. Aside from being a false statement, it is used in Wikipedia to imply that she is being arrogant regarding that issue. That's twisting the truth until it is false and untrue. As she contends in her book, My Life So Far, which is in the bibliography, the photo on the shirt is from an altogether different incident in her life.GretDrabba (talk) 16:36, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Yes I agree that the Post is just trying to stir up trouble, and I can't see why it would be necessary/relevant to have that comment in the article anyway. I removed it. --Loeba (talk) 17:12, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Liberal?[edit]

In the opening paragraph, the article states that "she describes herself as a liberal and a feminist." Is there any evidence that Fonda describes herself as a "liberal?" Is there any evidence that Fonda has ever described herself as a liberal? After some searching around, I have found no evidence for this claim and am removing it until a trustworthy source is adduced.

Wiki.correct.1 (talk) 07:55, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps you should have looked in Fonda's own 2005 autobiographical memoir, which explicitly states on page 144, "I'm a liberal". I've reinstated the sourced information (see here).--→gab 24dot grab← 21:59, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
Again reinstate sentence "She describes herself as a liberal[1]" Laughably, an editor had claimed "BLP assertions, none of which are supported in cited sources". The plainly cited source is a memoir written by Jane Fonda herself and she explicitly states "I'm a liberal". See here and here.--→gab 24dot grab← 17:36, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
Jane Fonda is a liberal?? Shocker. Quis separabit? 17:37, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Foundation[edit]

Multiple sources have noted that the Jane Fonda Foundation (founded by Fonda with herself as president, chair, director, and secretary) has made minimal or no charitable outlays in several years. An editor keeps deleting the information, most recently by claiming it's "gossip". I've reinstated the information, removed the one reference which happened to have included the word "gossip" and this time included actual QUOTES from two additional references, one of which explicitly states that the interpreted claims of others are "approximately correct". The fans of Fonda should not delete the information simply because it is less than flattering to Fonda; the matter is hardly a scandal and the section is ready to accept well-sourced facts about Fonda's other "charitable works".--→gab 24dot grab← 16:11, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

The above description of events is incorrect. The "multiple sources" you mention have actually commented on the speculation published by a single source, The Smoking Gun website, and not high quality reliable sources required by WP:BLP. An editor has removed the non-encyclopedic content, noting that it is non-encyclopedic -- that editor did not claim it was "gossip". An editor removed a citation to a non-reliable source (NY Daily News gossip column) noting in the edit summary that it was a gossip column (it even has "gossip" in the URL, which should be a red-flag to any Wikipedia editor thinking of using it in a BLP). You have not, as you claim, removed the gossip reference; you reinstated the gossip column. You did not include a quote which states the "interpreted claims of others" are approximately correct. The cherry-picked quote only confirms TSG's assertion that there is an IRS rule requiring foundations to give 5% of their assets each year; it does not confirm any "interpreted claims" of wrongdoing.
With the above description of events steered back to reality, I must now ask you: what, exactly, are you trying to convey to the reader with the content you keep re-inserting? And how is it in any way encyclopedic information, rather than tabloid, sensationalistic speculation (which is what TSG admittedly specializes in)? You do realize that TSG website post doesn't claim wrongdoing, and only speculates "If applicable" about the 5% rule, right? You do realize the FOX piece quotes a source saying all IRS requirements have been met, right? You do realize the NPQ source calls the speculation by The Smoking Gun a "tempest in a teapot", and explains how "anyone can read, (mis)interpret, and report on any nonprofit" based on public records, right? The detractors of Fonda shouldn't manufacture less than flattering speculation and insert it into Wikipedia Biographies of Living People; the article is ready to accept well-sourced and encyclopedic facts about Fonda's charitable works. Xenophrenic (talk) 20:12, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

"Raised atheist"[edit]

Henry Fonda claimed to be agnostic rather than atheist [15]Dr. Blofeld 13:51, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

There seems to be a bit of interpretation of the cited source at work here. She says she "grew up" an atheist, which only reflects her belief system, not necessarily her father's (as "was raised" implies). Some rephrasing is in order; I have a couple of thoughts, but no strong preference ("grew up an atheist"; "was an atheist when growing up"; "was an atheist in her younger days"; etc.). Comments/preferences? Fat&Happy (talk) 16:13, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
Raised indicates her parents brought her up that way. "Atheist in her younger years" wouldn't imply her parents were necessarily so.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:59, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Oh sorry, I didn't realise that could be misleading - I honestly didn't put much thought into it/consider that there could be a difference. I say we just use her exact wording: "Fonda grew up an atheist". --Loeba (talk) 14:10, 23 March 2014 (UTC) Grew up rather than raised would be better, especially if she said it!♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:15, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

"Hanoi Jane" Derivation[edit]

I've been unable to find out who originally called Jane Fonda "Hanoi Jane". Since this is what she will be remembered for, rather than her acting (one commentator when she received the AFI award remarked that she will always be remembered as a traitor rather than an actress), I think the derivation of the term "Hanoi Jane" is important. Does anybody know who first coined the term? --Was it a newspaper article, a TV comic, a politician? 50.202.81.2 (talk) 02:50, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

  1. ^ My Life So Far by Jane Fonda, Random House, 2005, page 144, "I'm a liberal"