Talk:Japanese castle

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Move?[edit]

Should Japanese Castle be moved to Japanese Castles? A Max J 12:19, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

No, because Wikipedia standard is the singular in article names. Confer Wikipedia:Naming conventions. -- Mkill 15:07, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Should it be moved to Castles of Japan? Fg2 22:16, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

No, because Japanese castle is what is more likely to be used as an inline link, as in "Azuchi Castle was the first Japanese castle to with a central keep that was ...". Still, it's a good idea to have redirects from Castles in Japan and Castles of Japan to avoid accidental article doublettes. -- Mkill 22:59, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
Also because the article covers the Japanese style of castles, as opposed to castles geographically located in Japan. If there were to be Japanese style castles outside of Japan, they'd be included under this article's descriptions of the architecture, etc. Meanwhile, any Western-style castles built in Japan are not covered. LordAmeth 11:56, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Assessment[edit]

This article needs footnotes. ;-) Kirill Lokshin 01:45, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Ah, blargh. I hate footnotes. ... I'll see what I can do. Thanks for the assessment, my friend. LordAmeth 03:03, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Looking better? I'm glad to cite things, now that I realize how easy it is to do footnotes here in Wiki. I'm really frustrated, though, at not being able to find a source to directly and explicitly defend my assertion that Japanese castles grew in power and popularity as a result of the advent of firearms. I find it a wonderfully ironic and interesting counterpoint to the fall of European castles due to the same stimulus, and gives a great image, a great concept to the overall timeline of castle development in Japan. LordAmeth 00:13, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm bored. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.154.147.185 (talk) 16:44, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Siege warfare[edit]

What about Siege warfare. I'm assuming that they must have used different weapons than the Europeans. I know the Japanese are not Chinese, but being close to China may have led to extensive use of Gunpowder in early rocket and missile projectors?

Ceryainly no Roman Balista or Scorpion was used - was it? If we could build up a section on that, perhaps we could raise the standard of the article. Man of Stubs.

I'm afraid I don't have my sources on me right now (I'm at school in London, and my books on castles & Asian siege warfare are at home in NY), but I remember reading that, perhaps somewhat surprisingly, the Japanese really didn't use siege engines, even Chinese-style ones, very much at all. As far as I am aware, gunpowder weapons were not used at all until the introduction of the European arquebus (c. 1550), and what few things they did use - Chinese-style trebuchet, etc. - were used as anti-personnel weapons, and not against fortifications. I have come across a few references to Western-style cannon being used against castles in the late 16th century, but I get the impression once again that this may have been quite limited. The Mōri clan is known for their naval tactics, and their use of cannon (e.g. 1569 siege of Tachibana), but I would not be surprised if they were the only samurai clan to make use of these. LordAmeth 10:14, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


I'm Japanese. I'm not good at English and not expert on this field. That is true. Japanese merely use siege engines. By the beginning of 16 century, most of the basement of castle made from soil. There had been no big castle. The battles were relatively small in that period. I think the demand to use siege warfare was not strong. In sengoku period, some siege warfares were used, like Untei, daideppou (big gun), oodutu (Canon), Kikkousya, and so on. There are at least 4 records about mizuzeme, which means surronding castle by water.

There is a strange point in this article. Because the most important point which defferenciate Japanese castle and Eurpe castle is not mentioned. Although Castle in Europe use stones as wall, Japanese castle use stones as basement. Some part of this article indicate that, but it is not clear.

The canon may be effective for the wall. However, I beleive it is not effective for basement. Even if canon breaks the stone basement, the soil basement will be appeared only. It is not significant damage for the defese side, at least on Japanse war style. I think the slope of this basement is against internal water pressure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.144.170.43 (talk) 13:27, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Matsue Castle[edit]

Matsue Castle is listed in the article as being entirely the original structure, yet the Wikipedia article on Matsue Castle states precisely the opposite. One statement is correct and the other is obviously not... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.198.202.78 (talk) 05:35, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Inspired by European fortress design[edit]

Why doesn't this article or any other article about Japanese castles mention they were inspired by European fortress design? The structures that make them different from past Japanese designs are the stone bases which all were constructed after the start of the Nanban period in 1542. The design of these stone bases are similar to those of Spanish, Portuguese and Dutch fortresses (not castles) of the time and earlier. Spain, Portugal and Holland traded with Japan during the Nanban period. Japan continued to have contact with Holland after European seculsion from Japan in 1647 by intermediary trade through the Ryukyu Islands. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:558:6031:4F:6D07:E3AF:A9AD:4C43 (talk) 20:30, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Because no source I've read supports that assertion in the least bit. Correlation doesn't equal causality. Boneyard90 (talk) 02:52, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
No one has studied it extensively. It's not a coincidence. The stone bases were all made after European contact between 1550 to 1640 which coincided with trade relation between Japan and Spain and Portugal. Spain and Portugal made fortresses with stone and inward slopping walls. After Spain and Portugal were excluded from contact with Japan castle design of this variation stopped. Goryōkaku is a Japanese star fortress that was inspired by the French fortress designer Vauban. Goryōkaku was made in 1855 a year after Japan "opened up." This pattern of replicating European fortress design occurred during Japan's first "open period" with Japanese castles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:558:6031:4F:6D07:E3AF:A9AD:4C43 (talk) 06:37, 2 September 2013 (UTC)