Talk:Jasper

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Requested move[edit]

IMO this article should be moved to Jasper (mineral), and Jasper (name) be moved here instead since that is the original meaning which all the other meanings derive from (including this mineral). /Jebur 19:37, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

  • Oppose. Page names should reflect the most common English usage of a word, and in my opinion Jasper as a name certainly doesn't qualify. Presumably you will also want other eponyms to point at their antecedent? Such as sandwich to refer to the Earl of Sandwich and boycott to point at Charles Cunningham Boycott? Sorry, doesn't work for me. Dragons flight 23:22, August 10, 2005 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Already reversed an undiscussed move. If you check What links here, you'll see that virtually all are to the mineral. Actually, the few that didn't I chenged to link to Jasper (name) or the disambig. page a few days ago. The given name Jasper is not as common outside of the Scandinavian countries and in itself is not that notable. Vsmith 02:40, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
  • I'm inclined to oppose for the reasons already given. Also, from [1], it appears that etymology of the gemstone may be distinct from the proper name, rather than derivative. olderwiser 15:32, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. violet/riga (t) 21:39, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

  • Oppose - The common use of the word is to refer the the mineral. I found this page by typing jasper into google, and the other links were to the mineral aswell. HighInBC 21:26, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


Historical[edit]

The information in the historical section only mentions references in Western civilization, and most particularly to Judeo-Christianity. If this is going to be here, references besides the Holy Bible should be used and there should be more information from eastern cultures. Shadowin 18:36, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Ummm huh, how about you track down that information and write it for us? Some one did the best they could with the knowledge they had. I don't seen anything wrong with there "only" being references from the Holy Bible, when you consider that the writing of Exodus and Revelation are centuries apart it seems like a fairly important reference marker in the Judeo-Christian tradition. I came to the page because I was wondering about a reference to "the jasper sea" was in a fiction book I am reading. If the historical section would have been removed then wikipedia would have once again been useless, but instead wikipedia came though for me. I vote to keep the historical section and vote that you stop whining. Thank you who ever put the historical data in the article. Dcllibrarian 04:37, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Unfounded etymology for 'jasper'[edit]

Wikipedia article states:

"The name means "spotted or speckled stone", and is derived from Greek iaspis, (feminine noun)[3] via a Semitic language (cf. Hebrew yashepheh, Akkadian yashupu), ultimately from Persian yashp."
That truly is a bold statement. I have not seen Wikipedia's assertion validated anywhere other than in the notorious 'Online Etymological Dictionary'. I have not seen this etymology cited in reputable dictionaries and etymological dictionaries.
The Akkadian language was already in serious decline, if not de-facto extinct as a spoken language, having given way to Aramaic, long before the dominance of the Persian empire over the Middle East. The suggestion that Akkadian language adopted words from Persian looks very suspect. A second point render's Wikipedia's proposed etymology virtually impossible.
The Hebrew word 'yashepheh', which stands for one of the stones in the High Priest's breastplate, is used in one of the oldest parts of the Hebrew Bible, i.e. the Book of Exodus, which long predates the Persian era. This word is generally traced by scholars of ancient Hebrew to a root meaning "to polish" or "to be smooth". Presumably, this could have been some ancient Semitic root shared as a cognate by Akkadian. The name could then have entered Greek via a Semitic-speaking culture with which they had contact since time immemorial, e.g. Phoenician. This looks much more probable than what has been cited in this article.
The personal name 'Jasper' has been ascribed to a Persian origin, but not relating to the name for a stone.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.68.95.65 (talk) 18:49, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Problems with the lead paragraph[edit]

It says in the lead: "Jasper, a form of Chalcedony, is an opaque, impure variety of silica, usually red, yellow, brown or green in color... Jasper is basically chert which owes its red color to iron(III) inclusions."

First of all, is it chalcedony or chert? and secondly, if red jasper owes its red colour to iron inclusions what about the yellow brown and green varities? It says here that "Jasper exhibits various colors, but chiefly brick red to brownish red. It owes its color to admixed hematite, but when it occurs with clay admixed, the color is a yellowish white or gray, or with goethite, a brown or yellow. Often jasper is multi-colored." I would add something in but I don't think that The Encyclopedia of Gems at allthatgifts.com is a particularly reliable source. Richerman (talk) 14:14, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Jasper most certainly is not a form of chalcedony. Chalcedony is microfibrous quartz, and one of its key identifying traits is its translucency. SEM images reveal its fibrous nature, as well. Jasper is a form of iron-rich chert and as such it is microgranular, composed of microscopic silica sediments. It is opaque, only translucent in very thin sections, and is, in fact, a rock. There are numerous texts that detail the differences between quartz, chalcedony, chert, and jasper, none of which seem to be sited here. The jasper page, as a whole, is a mess. -Jan '11. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.113.230.149 (talk) 02:27, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Suggested Reference[edit]

There is a good site at World of Jaspers would someone more competent care to add that as a reference? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.226.36.88 (talk) 16:40, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

red jasper found[edit]

Upon recent confirmation of our italian expert we discovered a large reserve of red jasper, we are a company which own and operate granite quarries in Egypt, we found this very hard material which we couldn't cut like marble or granite and when we ask for advise from a geologist he identified it as red jasper. Egyptian market is not familiar with this material so we ask advise from all people to give us more information about presenting this material in most proper way to the world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.192.39.227 (talk) 20:04, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

I would suggest you should try the links in the article - how about contacting someone from the International Colored Gemstone Association here? If they can't help you they should know someone who can. Richerman (talk) 12:51, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Basanite?[edit]

Basanite and dunite lava bomb

The "Types" section, last paragraph, mentions basanite as a name for a black variety of jasper, referencing mindat.org. Not being a geologist, I looked at the French version of the article and saw the lava bomb image being used, and used it to represent basanite on this article. Is basanite not a variety of jasper? Or is whatever is on the lava bomb not basanite? 71.234.215.133 (talk) 00:57, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Jasper is a variety of silica with colors due to trace elements. Basanite is a silica deficient igneous rock as illustrated by the image. It appears the term basanite has also been used for a dark jasper, but the image is of the volcanic rock and it is not jasper. Vsmith (talk) 01:45, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for explaining. 71.234.215.133 (talk) 01:47, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
You're welcome. Seems the French wiki article has added to the confusion and should be fixed ... by some wiki editor who reads French. See talk:Basanite for more fun confusion. Cheers, Vsmith (talk) 01:56, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
Je ne parle pas francais bien, nor do I have the keyboard for it. I went looking through the other language articles because there was not an example picture of basanite on mindat.org, although they did mention the bas-/bass- confusion. Maybe CIBJO will get around to fixing that like they did with bixbite/bixbyite. The historical usage of "basanite" for black jasper cannot be fixed, only explained repeatedly – and probably ad nauseam.
In the mean time, I am putting dalmatian jasper in the gallery because it is mentioned in the text. It has a different spotting pattern than orbicular, which is another reason to include it, in my opinion. I do not know if it should be in quotes ("Dalmatian" jasper) or called Spotted jasper or shown at all. I am not married to the image being in the article, if a desire is felt to remove it. There is not a lot of choices on Commons for jasper variety exemplars. 71.234.215.133 (talk) 02:33, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Jasper v Agate v Onyx[edit]

Is there any clear distinction between these three types of stone? They are all classified by the US Geological Survey as varieties of Chalcedony, but apart from (maybe) differences of color it is not clear to me whether there is any physical or chemical difference between them. Dealers in gems and decorative stones seem to be equally confused, and what looks like the same material (e.g. black banded with white) may be described under all three labels.109.158.131.117 (talk) 15:23, 25 May 2013 (UTC)