Talk:Jeff Buckley

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Former good article Jeff Buckley was one of the Music good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
edit·history·watch·refresh Stock post message.svg To-do list for Jeff Buckley:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:
  • Article requests: Get picture permission (this may require tracking down more photographs that are fair use or getting permission/licensing to use some of the definitive photographs of Buckley.)
    Photos needed:
    Wolf River, Tennessee in death section (added; this picture was already in Wikimedia ---Debollweevil (talk) 23:07, 5 September 2009 (UTC))
    Buckley in concert in Concert tours
    Early picture of Buckley in early career.
  • Expand: Sketches reception and sales

Jeff Buckley also opened for Juliana Hatfield's tour in 1995. I know because I saw them in Detroit at St. Andrews Hall.

Here's an article proving this. http://articles.philly.com/1995-05-22/entertainment/25673698_1_juliana-hatfield-waifish-performances I think this should be added to the article.

Jeff Buckley as keyboardist[edit]

I thought I'd bring attention to the fact that this article does not mention the fact that Jeff Buckley played keyboard instruments while writing and recording music. If you do not believe me, check the album credits for Grace and you will see that JB contributes keyboard parts to a few of the tracks. I've even seen photos of him behind pianos and playing them. I haven't found any sources on the Internet to verify this, but it should be included regardless. CR4ZE (talk) 10:44, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

By keyboards I think you're referring to the harmonium that Jeff played, which is a keyed instrument. He used it in the intro to Lover, You Should've Come Over. I agree, this should be included in Jeff's 'Instruments' section. Here are Jeff's album credits from Grace: Voice, Guitars, Harmonium, Organ, Dulcimer, Tabla. These should also be included. I've tried editing Jeff's instrument section before but it kept on getting deleted, even though I gave a reference link in my edit summary. Also under Jeff's 'Notable Instruments' section it only mentions that he played a Fender Telecaster. He also played a Gibson Les Paul Custom (Black Beauty), and Rickenbacker 360/12. And finally some edits need to be made to Jeff's 'Genres' section. Currently it states that Jeff's music is alternative rock and folk. This is very vague and not even accurate. Jeff's music was far from folk or alternative. Personally I think his 'Genres' section should read as following, minus the bracketed examples. Rock, Jazz, Blues, Avant-garde (ex. Tongue), Qawwali (ex. Yeh Ho Halka Halka Saroor Hai, Dream Brother, New Year's Prayer), Classical (ex. Corpus Christi Carol, Hallelujah, etc.) Ambient (ex. You & I). I don't think there should be any mention of Jeff's music being considered folk. Folk music afterall is played on an acoustic guitar. All of Jeff's songs are electric. He even said himself, "folk is dead" and he clearly didn't want to be categorized as such an artist.DreamBrother83 (talk) 20:47, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

I have tried uploading a higher resolution image of Jeff's current Wiki profile photo and gave proper references but it keeps getting reverted to the lower resolution version. Any idea why this is keeps occurring?DreamBrother83 (talk) 20:51, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

You have obviously not read the WP:NFCC criteria. Nymf hideliho! 20:54, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

What are you referring to specifically?DreamBrother83 (talk) 22:55, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Policy number 3b. Is says that low rather than high resolution should be used. Nymf hideliho! 23:01, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Would you mind giving me a hand with this please? Instruments played by Jeff that should be included in his 'Instruments' section. Here are Jeff's album credits from Grace: Voice, Guitars, Harmonium, Organ, Dulcimer, Tabla. These should also be included. I've tried editing Jeff's instrument section before but it kept on getting deleted, even though I gave a reference link in my edit summary. (http://www.jeffbuckley.com/pages/albums/grace) Also under Jeff's 'Notable Instruments' section it only mentions that he played a Fender Telecaster. He also played a Gibson Les Paul Custom (Black Beauty), and Rickenbacker 360/12.(http://www.jeffbuckley.com/rfuller/buckley/faq/25gear.html).DreamBrother83 (talk) 23:54, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Jeff Buckley Death[edit]

Well cited information surronding an artists death under odd circumstances should be allowed. I.e. what he was wearing, what he was saying/singing, what possessions were on him. Uberciter (talk) 01:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

And why is this trivia worth mentioning? Even if the citation is valid.--Michig (talk) 06:36, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
And it appears that the citation does not mention anything about toothpicks - I found the text of that article here. I have therefore removed the sentence.--Michig (talk) 07:00, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
Glad we could settle that. Uberciter (talk) 20:24, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

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Quick review[edit]

hello,

I see it was nominated at GAN. I think the article is not bad, but also not quite good. For example, the article does not mention his singing ability, which is really disapointing as his voice is really amazing (he was voted by Rolling Stones as one of the greatest singers of all time, for example). There should be a section about his singing style, his vocal range and other vocal styles. Also, quotes should not be italicized. Good luck with the GAN! Regards.--♫GoP♫TCN 13:57, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Absolutely, and the plethora of recent edits detract from the article. In what way is Jeff Buckley associated with America Idol? (Snoop God (talk) 23:13, 12 February 2012 (UTC))
In the way that it was the primary driver for Buckley reaching number 1 on a Billboard chart. The same can be said for X Factor, which led to his high charting position in the UK. If you don't think that's relevant, and detracts from the article, then you have a highly idiosyncratic concept of relevance. SFB 20:20, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
It still does not require a dedicated section. It was better as it was, as part of the previous section. Also, Buckley had a multi octave range, not strictly tenor, (tenor was probably the least prominent in his facility) so that would need to be changed also. Lastly, please do not remove content without discussing it here first. Basically, you should not delete anything that is referenced unless you have a good reason. Please make these changes before I start cutting it up. Thanks. (Snoop God (talk) 21:23, 13 February 2012 (UTC))
The 'Equipment' section should also be reverted. A few contributors added much content last year, and actually discussed that in depth. Check the history, please. (Snoop God (talk) 21:33, 13 February 2012 (UTC))
Snoop God, I think it is far more sensible to give a concise summary of his most important instruments, in prose, than to provide a huge list of every instrument he ever used. Sillyfolkboy, while I'm here, please be careful not to use self published sources, I hope you aren't just rushing the artistry section. It needs to be done properly, with good sources. --Lobo (talk) 22:01, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
Snoop God, it is you who has re-instated the American Idol/X-Factor to its own dedicated section, not me. Please try to find one instance of where I removed cited facts. In terms of the equipment, I merely condensed it to the most important facets (per Good Article criteria about incorporating lists into prose) and avoided an exhaustive list of equipment which goes far beyond what is desired of a general encyclopaedic article. I'm happy to discuss major changes on talk page. As far as fixing dead links, removing material which has been uncited for two years, and adding citations to the text, I don't feel I need the permission of a group consensus to proceed.
I apologise for wasting your time with these matters Lobo. Frankly I can no longer be bothered going to the effort of contributing to this article when it is an unenjoyable and thankless task. SFB 19:16, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
I don't blame you at all for being frustrated, SFB. I strongly disagree with Snoop God reverting the page, and left him a comment earlier today saying as much. You made good changes for the article, and to have them reverted must be very annoying. I'm sure you both just want the best for the article, but Snoop God, I'm baffled as to how you thought SFB's changes were unconstructive. I hope you won't stop your work on the page SFB, you are doing good stuff for it. --Lobo (talk) 19:36, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Jeff Buckley/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Lobo512 (talk · contribs) 14:09, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

I love Jeff Buckley, I have to claim this one. I've read half the article and scanned over the rest. It is very well referenced, but the prose is awkward at times. I hope the nominator will be willing to work on the prose. I would definitely like to see this article get to GA status. Also note that we have a "citation needed" tag in the instruments section: a lot of this stuff seems to be covered by the single citation at the end, but it doesn't mention (unless I'm being blind) the "other instruments". Do you have a reference at hand, that you can source this to?

Links
  • Ref 7 (500 greatest albums of all time) is currently not linking to the right page. Ref 85 also appears to be a duplicate of this, so when you find a new link please combine them into one ref (using "ref name").
  • Ref 74 (100 greatest songs) is dead.
  • Ref 105 (River's Edge) is not linking to the right page.
  • Ref 117 (Rufus Wainwright: Want Two) isn't linking to the right page
  • Ref 113 (Truth-flash) is dead.
  • Ref 118 (Bite your tongue) doesn't link to the article.
  • Ref 126 (What is The Fall In Light Foundation Inc.?) is dead
  • Ref 116 (PJ Harvey) doesn't link to the article
  • Ref 122 (The 2007 10th Annual Jeff Buckley Tribute) says nothing about Jeff Buckley (and doesn't appear to be a high quality source either)
  • Ref 125 (10th Annual Chicago Tribute) is dead
  • Ref 134 (100 greatest singers) is dead
  • EL "Biography from Jeff Buckley.com" is dead.

Oh dear. So we have a lot of issues with dead links that need to be fixed. You'll either need to find other reliable sources that say the same thing, or you can see if the Way Back When Machine has them archived.

If these issues can be fixed, and there's someone willing to work at the prose (ie, I'll post sentences that are awkward and then they can be re-written), then I will proceed with a full review. I would also like to see the "Tributes" section rewritten into a paragraph, rather than WP:Proseline, which it is right now. I imagine not all of these tributes are notable enough to be included, maybe just cut it down to the significant ones. --Lobo (talk) 14:09, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit: I just noticed that someone left a comment on the talk page questioning the lack of discussion on his voice. This is a very good point. I'm starting to wonder if this nomination was a bit premature. There does, really, need to be a section on this to satisfy the broadness criteria. What would be good is an "Artistry" section, which talks about his voice, songwriting (he wrote beautiful lyrics) and the instruments he used (in prose, not a list). Also, we have very little about his personal life right now..? I'll give you a chance to respond, but I'm afraid the article may need a fair bit of work to meet the GA criteria. --Lobo (talk) 14:33, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

All the issues in your initial review were already resolved before Snoop God reverted the article to its "good version". I will try to put together a section on his musicianship. SFB 20:22, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
Ah yes I see, the legacy and instruments sections look much better now. That was a rather strange decision by Snoop God. We do still have quite a few link problems though, please see the tool here and fix accordingly (I'm fairly sure all the Rolling Stone ones have just been relocated to a different link, they wouldn't take them off the site completely...at least I seriously hope not, there would be no logic in that). How long do you think you'll need to put together an artistry section? If it's going to take a week or two then it may just be better to close this review for now and then renominate when you are ready (and I'll happily take up the review then)..? By the way, I saw your comment on the talk page and I completely agree that the American Idol/X Factor incidents are worth mentioning. Just maybe not in their own subheading. Or the subheading could be renamed "2008 resurgence" or something like that. --Lobo (talk) 20:38, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Right, I'm sorry but I'm going to have to fail this GA. Alongside the problems mentioned above, there is clearly a conflict of interest between two of the main editors. The page has been reverted (to a very different version) twice in the last 36 hours, and there has been arguing on the talk page. This means the page is not stable, one of the main GA criteria. Please re-nominate again when you have sorted out your disagreement. I'd also recommend improving the quality of the sources (too much reliance on jeffbuckley.com), and possibly sending it to peer review to help smooth out the prose. --Lobo (talk) 12:43, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Issue still needs to be solved[edit]

I am saddened that the issues this page was having seem to have ended with Sillyforkboy retreating. I don't want to see it stop here, because SFB was clearly doing good things for the page and aiming to get it to GA status. And currently, we have the page settling on an inferior version. So I am going to intervene. Snoop God, what are you currently thinking? Would you be willing to see the page go back to how it was just before you reverted? And if not, can you please clearly explain what it is about that version you think is problematic. --Lobo (talk) 20:31, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I will revert my last undo. Since no one else edited or contributed to the discussion I am okay compromising on this and will go with the majority. Snoop God (talk) 21:21, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
Thank you, I appreciate that. Now, someone get this amazing man's page to GA status! --Lobo (talk) 22:18, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

"in a good frame of mind prior to the accident"?[edit]

Someone who goes swimming fully dressed - including booths might not be that sane... --09:29, 25 April 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.52.12.221 (talk)

That's nothing but your point of view which, in the big world outside it, is garbage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:AE26:9E99:125:1EAB:988A:F62B (talk) 18:47, 5 February 2014 (UTC)