Talk:Jerash

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Nichomachus of Gerasa[edit]

I note the comment in this page that Nicomachus of Gerasa is "one of the greatest mathematicians in human history". Hardly. I direct your attention to his MacTutor biography page, which tries to go some way to explain his otherwise bewilderingly large influence on the development (or lack of it) in the Western world for 1000 years. -- WestwoodMatt (talk) 22:54, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Excavations[edit]

Why isn't there a section on the current excavations in Jerash; and a section on the islamic period in jerash? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.104.135.188 (talk) 13:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Split?[edit]

As I have suggested at Umm Qais, I think the modern and ancient towns deserve separate articles. Daniel Case (talk) 02:35, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Picture of theatre[edit]

The picture on the page shows the southern theatre, while the underline of it states it would be the northern theatre. A mistake! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.164.255.24 (talk) 03:25, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Edit request on 7 May 2012[edit]

The user wakwakwiki or soufray is the same person, he always trying to add his town over this article and delete others, what I want is to revert his last edit and keep the article as it was before 3/5/2012. thanks in advance --H•f Talk to me 08:20, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 7 May 2012 (stopping the Vandalism of Historyfeelings)[edit]

As showing by the tracked history of the version (history tab) I am one of the earliest editor of this article my contribution started on 23:23, 8 April 2006‎ Banimustafa as the history of the page is showing.

  • (cur | prev) 23:23, 8 April 2006‎ Banimustafa (talk | contribs)‎ . . (5,446 bytes) (+1,128)‎

I was mentioning historical facts which are known by every person in Jerash and supported by the Jordanian historians and the western visitors who visitted Jerash on 19th century. my contribution was (Jerash was a small village attached to Souf (center of al-Meradh during the Ottoman Empire). It was re-inhabited by the people of souf, syrians and Circassians (Immigrated from North Caucasus) during the second half of Nintheeth century). I then continued improving the article by referring to the Circassians and Shwam contribution to the modern city.

As showing by the tracked history of the version (history tab). The user Historyfeelings started vandalizing the article by replacing Souf with Sakib without even changing the context of the article.

The first attempt started by adding Sakib to Souf

  • (cur | prev) 04:48, 24 February 2012‎ Historyfeelings (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (13,714 bytes) (-9)‎
  • (cur | prev) 04:30, 24 February 2012‎ Historyfeelings (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (13,723 bytes) (+28)‎

Then Historyfeelings replaced Souf with Sakib. Historyfeelings did not even change the reference which is showing the user Historyfeelings great ignorance.

  • (cur | prev) 23:54, 9 April 2012‎ Historyfeelings (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (14,404 bytes) (0)‎ . . (→‎Modern Jerash)

The vandalism started when Historyfeelings started updating the page.... It is very clear in the history of Historyfeelings changes on the page, just review the history of the page and things are very clear.

The vandalism caused by the user Historyfeelings on 9 April 2012 must be stopped and fully stopped as he is vandalizing the community effort to improve this article since 2006 including my personal effort as I spent days in reading books and editing the page.My argument is supported by the editing history of the page, which is showing the changes time, date and editor. The copies can be easily compared to resolve this dispute. The article still having vandalism as the word Sakib replaced the word Souf in the original article.

I request that the administrator of the article edit the article and undo all the vandalism made by Historyfeelings, who just replaced the word souf with Sakib.

Banimustafa (talk) 09:35, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 7 May 2012[edit]

Stop the damage made to this article. Just revert the changes made by Historyfeelings. It is simple Historyfeelings is just replacing Souf with Sakib. See the page History Soufray (talk) 10:00, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit requests[edit]

To warring editors, I am declining all of the above edit requests, because you cannot simply carry on your edit war by proxy in this way. What you need to do is explain why your preferred version is correct rather than just saying "The other editor is wrong", and then wait and see if the consensus supports you. I know at least two of you are temporarily blocked, but that gives you some time to read WP:EW, WP:Vandalism, and WP:Consensus, and to prepare an approach that does not entail edit-warring or accusing and counter-accusing each other of vandalism, and instead learn what consensus is and how to achieve it. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 13:37, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

objection[edit]

Can the writer please review this sentences in the article:

  • Souf was the seed for modern Jerash: The reference in the article doesn't mention it.
  • Jerash actually re-inhabited by the local people of Souf: The reference in the article doesn't mention it.

My view:in this reference the writer tells that Jerash (Garas) name was abandoned for Sakib for it's importance. Here

  • Adding Souf beside Sakib in this paragraph: Inhabitants of Souf & Sakib and other villages in Jerash region were among the founders of the modern city of Jerash.

My view: look at this reference here shows that inhabitants of Sakib build the modern Jerash. --HF 01:10, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

OK, source is "© Ad-Dustour Newspaper", which seems like a good enough source (to me as a non-expert, at least). But its says (using the Google translation) "And tells historians that the people of Sakb and the rest of the people of ancient villages in Jerash are the first foundations of the city of Jerash modern in the early nineteenth century". Given the "and the rest..." part, is there any reason to single out any specific village as *the origin*? Would it not be better to just say it arose from of a number of ancient villages? -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:31, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
Thanks a lot, I would like to tell you that I am no longer apart of this edit war, and what I'm trying to do now is to solve the problem with you to touch the truth. So you are right, the source mentioned that Sakib and other ancient villages played a role of building the modern city of Jerash. Mentioning Sakib itself because it was the oldest town in the region and the name of Jerash abandoned for Sakib for some period of time. And when Jerash discovered in 1806, Sakib played the main role of building it. Anyway as I can see some persons also comes to make an objections on the 2 towns! So, to end this edit war I suggest the following:
  • either Adding: Sakib and the other acient villages (exactly as it comes from the source), or Adding: people of Acients villages
  • delete this:Souf was the seed for modern Jerash cause The reference in the article doesn't mention it. And this sentence conflict with the other info. And any reference comes to mention that it will be acceptable.
  • delete:Jerash actually re-inhabited by the local people of Souf cause also The reference in the article doesn't mention it. And this sentence conflict with the other info. And any reference mention that it will be acceptable.
  • delete this: Souf was the center of mirad region and moving it to Jerash Governorate article and discuss it in the talk page, cause this article talk about the city of Jerash not regions in Jerash Governorate.

by this way I think the problem will be solved. thanks --HF 21:46, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Firstly: Addustour is not an acceptable reference because it copied the article you edited in Wikipedia Arabic (see the section "Addustour Article" below).
Secondly: I have checked the book you used to support your argument here. The book simply does not say what you claimed. It only discusses a naming issue regarding the names used by an author who is called "Prawer". This author insisted using Crusaders names for many places including the name "Seecip". However, the book says that "Prawer" stopped using that name permanently as all other authors used either the Greek and the Roman name "Gerasa" or the current name "Jerash". The name Jerash was used by the ancient and modern Arabs, Ottomans, and also by all the westerns authors after the re-discovery of Jerash by the German Ulrich Jasper Seetzen in 1806 AD.
Thirdly: The statement you are disputing about Souf in the article is supported by the book: Travels in Syria and the Holy Land By Johann Ludwig Burckhardt, London. The book reports in page 250 that "Souf is a village with about forty families whose principal riches are some olive plantations on the sides of Wady Deir. It is the chief village in the country called Moerad in which the following are also situated Ettekitte one hour distant from Djerash and abandoned last year Bourma, Hamtha, Djezaze and Debein". Please check the book on the link. Banimustafa (talk) 11:44, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Addustour Article[edit]

"Ad-Dustour Newspaper" was a circular reference as the newspaper copied the Wikipedia article in Arabic which was originally edited by the Historyfeelings. Please compare the translation of Wikipedia Article in Arabic with the translation of Ad-Dustour newspaper article. Please note the literal matching between the two articles And tells historians that the people of Sakb and the rest of the people of ancient villages in Jerash are the first foundations of the city of Jerash modern in the early nineteenth century. Banimustafa (talk) 09:44, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

The "Ad-Dustour Newspaper" article appears to be dated 05/05/12 - can you please show us in the history when that same text was added to the Arabic Wikipedia article prior to that? -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:52, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
It was added on February 24, 2012 please check the translation of the Arabic version of the article edited by the Historyfeelings in that date on the link. The page time stamp and the name of the editor who changed the copy is shown on the top of the page. Banimustafa (talk) 10:19, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
OK, thanks, that appears to confirm that the newspaper article has copied Wikipedia - and therefore can not be used as a source. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:32, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Conclusion: (depending on Jerash talk page in Arabic wikipedia, and depending on what we've got upon this talk page)

  • Adding: people of Acients villages instead of Inhabitants of Souf and Sakib, cause we couldn't know if the editor in the newspaper copy+paste the info or bring it from another source but used what already written in wikipedia to save time.
  • delete this:Souf was the seed for modern Jerash cause The reference in the article doesn't mention it. And this sentence conflict with the other info. And you are welcome to add a trusted/accurate reference.
  • delete:Jerash actually re-inhabited by the local people of Souf cause also The reference in the article doesn't mention it. And this sentence conflict with the other info. And you are welcome to add a trusted/accurate reference.
  • delete this: Souf was the center of mirad region and moving it to Jerash Governorate article and discuss it in the talk page, cause this article talk about the city of Jerash not regions in Jerash Governorate.--HF 14:57, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
Re "we couldn't know if the editor in the newspaper copy+paste the info or bring it from another source but used what already written in wikipedia to save time". No, it's a clear copy of an earlier version of Wikipedia, so it absolutely cannot be used - speculation that the editor might have got it from a better source but "used what already written in wikipedia to save time" has no place here. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 15:38, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
  • On the May 14,2012, a referee (Administrator) in the discussion of the Arabic version made a final decision that the newspaper article cannot be used as a reference. However, on May 15, 2012 (the next day), Historyfeelings started a campaign to market the newspaper article as source in the discussion of this article (as showing above)... I am sorry, but I can see no coincidence here!...Banimustafa (talk) 18:44, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

I think it is not the right place to attack me personally, it is a matter of truth only! As I said, let's stop this, here you go.. otherwise you are trying to play around.

Conclusion:

  • Adding: people of Acients villages instead of Inhabitants of Souf and Sakib (no source)
  • delete this:Souf was the seed for modern Jerash cause The reference in the article doesn't mention it. And this sentence conflict with the other info. And you are welcome to add a trusted/accurate reference. (no source)
  • delete:Jerash actually re-inhabited by the local people of Souf cause also The reference in the article doesn't mention it. And this sentence conflict with the other info. And you are welcome to add a trusted/accurate reference. (no source)
  • delete this: Souf was the center of mirad region and moving it to Jerash Governorate article and discuss it in the talk page, cause this article talk about the city of Jerash not regions in Jerash Governorate. (not the right place).--HF 19:43, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Protected[edit]

Folks, the edit-war over Souf/Sakib appears to be continuing with anonymous IP editors, so I have reverted to before the latest round of warring and have semi-protected the article so that IPs cannot edit it. Please discuss this dispute here and seek a consensus, and stop the edit war. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:26, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

(PS: No doubt someone will believe I have protected the wrong version, but that's just the way it goes with content disputes - it can be put right when a consensus has been achieved here.) -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:33, 18 May 2012 (UTC)i not agree this artecle.... all villagge was seed for modern jarash not sakib or souf and jarash build by all people and they live in jarash not only souf..... there are no center for mirad region in anytime and it is raymun keth sakib nahlh debin burma jazzazh . mohammad marazeq - jarash

you from bani mustafa famly from souf you want make souf big and make villagges smal. i will speack with wikipedia about you. you not say truth. mohammad marazeq - jarash — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.249.72.86 (talk) 23:23, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

I think any of these old villages has it's own history and since these villages is a part of Jerash surely every village played a special role during that old history. So I do agree with the above conclusion. Besides the whole region including Jerash itself was a part of Ajlun district during the Ottoman rule. In that time there was only one center it is Ajlun. I can notice also that usernames shows that everyone tries to show up: example: banimustafa (a family from Souf) who surely will be with his own town. Ahmed Smadi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.185.141.158 (talk) 01:59, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 19 May 2012[edit]

hi i want edit jarash... person from bani mustafa famly from souf say no truth and make souf big and vilagges smal. why you dont say anything about raymun and burma and villagges. i want wikipedia say truth mohammad marazeq-jarash 94.249.72.86 (talk) 23:53, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Please wait for the discussions above to conclude and for a consensus to develop. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 23:54, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

mr. said zebedee thank you i want ask why i cant discus the problm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.249.72.86 (talk) 00:02, 20 May 2012 (UTC) i translate google person HF writ conclusin above i agree with he.. we dont want put any villagge or put raymun and all villagges becaze in jarash many old villagges and old more than souf. all villagges was seed for modern jarash not sakib or souf and jarash build by all people and they live in jarash not only souf.there are no center for mirad region in anytime and it is raymun keth sakib nahlh debin burma jazzazh . and i want use my name in wikipedia thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.249.72.86 (talk) 00:22, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Just to make things clear[edit]

Dear user:banimustafa, I would like to notice you that if you contribute in an article, this surely doesn't mean in anyway you own it, so if you think that any article over wikipedia is yours and you don't want us to edit it, just edit articles in another place.

You should know that an average of 300 people watch Jerash article everyday, so putting infos -without objections- is not that easy nowadays. In opposite of the year 2006 when you came to put what ever you want without objections; like this for example.

I can understand that there's a special relation between you and this article, but if you are from Jerash that doesn't give you the right to write what ever you want, you only -as will as any other user- have this right just when you come with an accurate reference, otherwise you should expect a lot of users ready to reject your biased edits.

To make things clear, I gave my suggestion above, so wait and let other users judge this issue. Thanks a lot--HF 02:07, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

I am trying my best to avoid your continuing attempts to drag me to a personal discussion after you failed providing reliable sources to support your claims. However, looking at the history of your contributions to this article, I see nothing but an overenthusiastic and obviously biased attempts to change any reference to Souf in this article and in all the relevant articles with Sakib e.g. Jordan and Jerash Governorate. In this article, you started adding Sakib to every reference to Souf on February 24, 2012 and then you decided to removed any reference to Souf in the article On 9, April 2012. Then you started your edit war to keep the changes you made to the article. Here is the most recent version of the article just before you started your Sakib promotion campaign.
However, unlike your changes, my contribution to the article and most of other users' contributions since 2006, were based on reliable informations and were agreed on by other users. The sentence you are disputing is supported by well-documented sources (e.g. the above book "Souf is a village with about forty families whose principal riches are some olive plantations on the sides of Wady Deir. It is the chief village in the country called Moerad"). That was the reason why the article was stable since 2006 despited all the contributions and the changes made by hundreds of users. There was no arguments and no edit wars here until you started your campaign.
I would like to remind you, that in your historical feelings campaign, you never hesitated using false or irrelevant sources which simply do not support your claims to promote Sakib (e.g. the book you used above is an example). Upon your request, I would be happy to translate examples of similar attempts you made in the Arabic version of this article and I am happy also to translate the administrators' responses to these attempts, which you later tried here.
Also, please stop talking on behalf of other people and stop using other IP addresses or hiring crowds as this is unfair practice which is forbidden her. Nothing is personal, just present your argument based on proofs rather accusation and we will judge it accordingly. Please leave my personal life away from this and stop involving my family name in this argument. I am still happy to discuss the article with you, but please stop personalizing the discussion. Next time, if you want to send me a message starting with "dear", please add it to my talk page, as I see no place for this message here. Banimustafa (talk) 15:13, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit Request[edit]

Under "Modern Jerash" someone wrote "Also took the name cause they objected to the oppression of the Ottoman rule." First, there's no source. Second, this reads like it was written by a teenager texting on their phone. I request this be removed or written in proper English and sourced properly. Zibblezabble (talk) 06:34, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Accepted. I've removed the unsourced and fragmented sentence. Thanks for visiting Wikipedia! SwisterTwister talk 06:39, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! The more I read this article, the more I'm realizing how much grammatical editing needs to take place, but I haven't earned my "editing wings" yet. Zibblezabble (talk) 06:49, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Please check the wrong information in the article about Sakib and Souf all sources are misleading. I request these information to be removed as long as there are no sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.108.119.86 (talk) 20:07, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

It is currently being discussed - please wait for the conclusion of the discussions. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 20:10, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Seems there is no end. Information with misleading sources must be removed. This doesn't need all that long argument. Also the article need a grammer check. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.108.119.86 (talk) 20:15, 21 May 2012 (UTC) I personally take a look at the article in Arabic. There is no such bad information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.108.119.86 (talk) 20:18, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

  • Please don't take advantage of this argument to shop for administrators!
  • This is the third IP address you used in addition to your username:Historyfeelings. This is not fair! Can you please stick to the rules! this will lead you no where! so please stop it.
  • By the way, Just look above! and see what they said about your information and your English. This was part of the information you added earlier. I tried my best to delete this particular sentence, but you insisted to add it to this version of the article. The earlier version where you added the information was edited using an anonymous IP address in a similar fashion to what you are doing now. However, finding that was not so difficult as it was inferred easily from the changes you made later to the article using your username:Historyfeelings. You added the sentence "during the stages of his crime" to this version of the article which was exactly the same as the one that was initially added by the IP address "Also took the name cause they objected to the oppression of the Ottoman rule during the stages of his crime". However, I did not want to comment on this, but I had to, as you are trying to take advantage of the conversation for marketing your campaign Banimustafa (talk) 22:18, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
Why you keep attacking me while you have a better alternative here which is giving us the truth and go direct to the subject and give us your accurate references? --HF 01:12, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
My earlier response to you was a reply to your messages which you started with "Dear" in this discussion page. Here, you dragged me to this discussion with your unfair approach (as explained earlier). My response to you was to put things into context and explain what you are trying to do with proofs. Please not that what you are doing here is wrong and unfair and also against wikipedia policy.Banimustafa (talk) 11:50, 23 May 2012 (UTC)


related to this discussion here you go;
Conclusion:
  • Adding: people of Acients villages instead of Inhabitants of Souf and Sakib (no source)
  • delete this:Souf was the seed for modern Jerash cause The reference in the article doesn't mention it. And this sentence conflict :::with the other info. And you are welcome to add a trusted/accurate reference. (no source)
  • delete:Jerash actually re-inhabited by the local people of Souf cause also The reference in the article doesn't mention it. And this sentence conflict with the other info. And you are welcome to add a trusted/accurate reference. (no source)
  • delete this: Souf was the center of mirad region and moving it to Jerash Governorate article and discuss it in the talk page, cause this article talk about the city of Jerash not regions in Jerash Governorate. (not the right place). --HF 01:12, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
First: Stop saying "conflict with the other info" as you provided no reliable information here. You started personalizing the discussion, as soon as your attempts to provide false information was blocked. However, I will clarify some issue before you continue your personalization of the discussion.
Second: You cannot say "ancient". Ancient means very old. The section under dispute is discussing modern Jerash and these villages are relatively new. In the 19th century, Souf which was the biggest village was having only 500 inhabitants "As described above". However, as the main village in the region during that time was Souf. It was always the station of all the western travelers, who visited Jerash. This was reported in 20+ books. I am happy to provide links to these upon request.
However, I agree with you that adding Sakib to the first sentence is wrong as Sakib has no significant role in the development of modern Jerash.
Third: In the late 19th century and during the Ottoman era. The Pasha who was in charge of the region was always from the people of Souf and was always based on the village of Souf (Pasha is the equivalent to the "Lord" or "Duke" in the British system) e.g. Abdelaziz Pasha Al-Kayed, Ali Pasha Al-Kayed. This was the case until 1921. On the other hand, during that time Jerash was only a small village it used to be utilised by the people of Souf for agriculture because of its water. Each tribe in souf was having its own watermill in the old village of Jerash e.g. Banimustafa mill which its ruins still in the south of the city. Jerash was then developed drameticly because of its location on the cross-road between Amman and the major cities in the north of Jordan including Irbid, Ramtha and Ajloun. In addition to the growing interest in its Roman ruins as a major tourist attraction.
Fouth: Between 1918 and 1921, and just before the Hashemites established Transjordan (which was later renamed as the Kingdom of Jordan), Souf was even announced by the Pasha as independent government, the same as Salt and Karak. However, later it joined transjordan government as it was recognized by the league of nation as a country under the British mandate. ALi Pasha Al-Kayed, is considered one of the founders of modern Jordan. He was one of the closest advisors to the Emir (Later King) Abdullah and the founder of several ministries e.g. Tourism Land and survey.
Fifth: All the lands in the modern Jerash was owned by the people of Souf apart from small pieces of lands inside the commercial center of the city which used to be owned by the Circassians and Shwam Shopkeepers. For example, the plaestinain camp in Jerash is called "Souf Camp" despite it is closer to jerash (only one mile) than souf (4 Miles). This was simply because the land was a donation from the people of Souf. My dad and his cousins inherited lands in the heart of the city of Jerash which was passed to them through several generations. Several mountains in the city of Jerash still have the name of the people of Souf tribes e.g. "Jabal al atmat", Jabal alfayfeh, etc.
Sixth: More than half of the population of Jerash are from Souf. For example, currently Souf have 3 Members of the Jordanian parliaments out of the 5 MPs who are representing Jerash. In addition the city council is always dominated by members from Souf and is usually headed by a Soufanian e.g Ali Quqazeh, Mohammed Hwamdeh, Adel Otoom, etc. People in Jerash are traditionally as most of other regions in Jordan, elect their representatives based on their tribal or regional origins. This is a very well-known fact in Jordan as most of the political parties are weak.
Seventh: from the beginning of modern Jerash there some entire tribes moved from Souf to the city of Jerash e.g. Zetaymeh, Hwamdeh, Atmat, Afayfeh, Nezamy etc. in addition to the majority of Otoom, Banimustafa, Edaibat, Quaqzeh etc. These tribes were among the founders started of the modern city of Jerash in addition to the Circassians and the Shwam. Later, they were joined by the people of other villages as the city grew and by the Palestinian refugees.
Eighth: Most of the suburbs of the greater city of Jerash were all villages founded by the people of Souf e.g. Jaba, Zeqreet, Majjar, Asfour, Thougretasfour, Nabihood, etc. I addition to Kufrkhal which is currently one of the biggest towns in Jerash.
So, please stop changing the history according to your feelings as no base for what you claim. Sakib is one of the fastest growing villages or towns in Jerash in terms of population (stop calling it city), because of its high birth rate. Until recently Sakib was less significant than its neighboring village Keteh (which is decried in the book) as it was in the past the main village in the west of Jerash. Banimustafa (talk) 11:50, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
Please don't play around, just be direct, wikipedia is not for making dreams come true!--HF 01:12, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
You are the one who is trying to change history based on your feelings, and you are not hesitating to use any mean to do so. Stop using other IP addresses, this is not useful and unfair. I am confident that as autopatrolled user you are aware of this. Also Stop using false source, and stop personalize the matter. Nothing is personal.
However, you are always welcome to correct me if I am wrong with proofs. I am still hoping that you stop what you doing and then I am happy to get back to the discussion as soon as you stop your unfair approaches Banimustafa (talk) 11:50, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Please, don't get us out of the track; we are here to discuss about Jerash not Souf's history (Assuming you are true you can mention that -with accurate sources- out of this article. Do you expect that I will write tons of words about Sakib's history? of course not, cause we are discussing fake sentences which already supported by fake sources. --HF 19:41, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

I am sure, you have no tons of words, neither about Sakib's history nor about anything else. You can simply go around, copy and paste the contents of other articles and customised it to Sakib, or may be just keep repeeting yourself. I have read your article bout sakib, and I have seen what you did there... if you want I can start comparing it with the contents of other articles! I can also start tracing the sources you have provided there! Just, upon your requist! Banimustafa (talk) 22:12, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Please be direct and let us end this case. Am wondering why you are changing what you've said before in the Arabic version? Actually there's one answer for that, which is playing around and stuck of your fake claims maybe this will lead for what you really wish. I am wondering why is that Administrators wait until this time?! things are clear. --HF 19:41, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

related to this discussion here you go;

Conclusion:

  • Adding: people of Acients villages instead of Inhabitants of Souf and Sakib (no source)
  • delete this:Souf was the seed for modern Jerash cause The reference in the article doesn't mention it. And this sentence conflict with the other info. And you are welcome to add a trusted/accurate reference. (no source)
  • delete:Jerash actually re-inhabited by the local people of Souf cause also The reference in the article doesn't mention it. And this sentence conflict with the other info. And you are welcome to add a trusted/accurate reference. (no source)
  • delete this: Souf was the center of mirad region and moving it to Jerash Governorate article and discuss it in the talk page, cause this article talk about the city of Jerash not regions in Jerash Governorate. (not the right place).

I hope this time, an action will be taken!!--HF 19:47, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

I am sorry, but I had to respond to you after you kept pegging for an answer… you kept repeating yourself over and over again…! I don’t understand why are you doing this!!?? It will get you no where!
I started to belive that you are not interested in discussion. You are only interest in complains, edit wars, sophist debate, and empty accusation … Oh, by the way, what do you mean by fake sources!? I have never used fake sources? so please proof your accusation, or simply withdraw it!
Thank you for stopping your puppet IP addresses game; I hope you will stop it for good. Now, try to move on one step, and stop personalising the discussion. I would like to draw your attention to the fact that this is an encyclopaedia, not a forum or a chat room! Banimustafa (talk) 21:44, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
Well, I hope to stop accusing me cause that will not support your view, I wrote my conclusion and you still play around and can't give us where can we found that information. You can't give a source in an illusive way. You should give us accurate pages/links otherwise an action will be taken. And by the way I am not pegging you, it seems you are pegging me by playing around questions and attacking me to get editors outside the right track. I know you hope to keep these fake information, but it's a matter of truth and that's why we are here. Thanks for being polite with me :)--HF 16:58, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
I have just seen your Sakib article where you copied and pasted entire paragraphs from Jerash article here and other articles. Again you faked several sources. You said "Numerous travelers mentioned the Sakib region in their writings, with some providing detailed descriptions, including Burkhart, C. Q. Buckingham". I checked both sources and none of them mentioned what you claimed about sakib. They never visited, they never described or mentioned a Sakib. You also used your circular reference from the newspaper that copied your own edit from Wikipedia article in Arabic. Even, after you were told twice in this discussion and in the Arabic version discussion that source is invalid. You even stolen a picture from Jerash article and changed its context to Sakib. I checked both sources and none have ever mentioned Sakib.
I cannot respond to empty accusations, which have no proof to verify. You can claim what ever you want... you can also continue your sophist discussion forever ....You can also keep repeating yourself forever. I have no further comments. Banimustafa (talk) 03:06, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Conclusion:

  • Adding: people of Acients villages instead of Inhabitants of Souf and Sakib (no source)
  • delete this:Souf was the seed for modern Jerash cause The reference in the article doesn't mention it. And this sentence conflict with the other info. And you are welcome to add a trusted/accurate reference. (no source)
  • delete:Jerash actually re-inhabited by the local people of Souf cause also The reference in the article doesn't mention it. And this sentence conflict with the other info. And you are welcome to add a trusted/accurate reference. (no source)
  • delete this: Souf was the center of mirad region and moving it to Jerash Governorate article and discuss it in the talk page, cause this article talk about the city of Jerash not regions in Jerash Governorate. (not the right place).

I hope this time, an action will be taken!!--HF 12:08, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 23 May 2012[edit]

please let me edit Jerash 213.186.182.146 (talk) 14:02, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

This article is semi-protected due to a content dispute and edit warring. To edit it, you would need to Create an account and become Autoconfirmed, which takes 4 days and 10 edits. Dru of Id (talk) 14:23, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

We may also submit the contribution if you clarify why you want to edit. SwisterTwister talk 19:02, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Is information about towns true?[edit]

  • Remove fake sources The fake sources should be removed without question. You can leave the statements in but I have no verification of the veracity of the statements, and the statements can be left so they can be sourced later.Curb Chain (talk) 23:44, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
Are the sources fake?Curb Chain (talk) 13:06, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Yes, the information above doesn't appear in anyway in that sources, and you can see in the talk page that the user always refuses to respond for conclusion. One thing more is that Jerash has more than 30 towns and most of them is older than town souf. so mentioning it as a major one is misleading. --HF 13:10, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

  • Evidences:
  • First: Look in this version of Souf article, the source here in Jerash article is a circular referencing which is already taken from the wikipedia article. look here to make sure. so this sentence should be deleted cause of fake source.--HF 13:50, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Second: Same here, the sentence related to the source has the same circumstances with fake source.
  • Third: in here the sentence never appear, and let's suppose it does! this's not the right place and it has no relation with topic. anyway have a look
  • Forth: here this reference doesn't mention the sentence in anyway. in addition that user already wrote souf in this version by anyway.

Now things are clear. Thank you --HF 14:10, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

1. How is it a circular reference?Curb Chain (talk) 20:43, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
The google link is a translation so I cannot verify the veracity of your claim.Curb Chain (talk) 20:45, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

I've fixed the link, you can see it now. Circular referencing means that the information took from wikipedia and putted in the book, then putting the book as a reference for what is in wikipedia. this method is misleading and fake.--HF 21:39, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

2. See aboveCurb Chain (talk) 21:02, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
3. I have removed "Travels in Egypt and Nubia, Syria and Asia Minor: during the years 1817 & 1818".Curb Chain (talk) 21:10, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
4. If you feel something is unsouced (and if you challenge it), it can be removed per WP:BURDEN.Curb Chain (talk) 21:13, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

These information are not exist and wrong. it should be deleting for a high quality article. Lies should not stay. --HF 21:44, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

I am really busy now. Please leave the discussion for later! I do not think there is a point of repaeting yourself, Hiring crowd or using fake IP Addresses. If you really seek for the truth stop faking information in Sakib page as it is nothing but a copy and paste of the information in this article, after you replaced souf with Sakib. This a summary of the change you made to the article. You claimed the sources say what they never said, you copied and pasted from Jerash article with paying attention to the context or to the validity of information, and you also used the same circular refernce decided to be invalide by the adminstrator ( ad dustour newspaper). Banimustafa (talk) 15:22, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
The discussion has been FINISHED and the evidences shows the truth, so there will be no more things for you to say except playing around question and getting us out of the track!--HF 16:30, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Proof for point of view:

  • 1: Look in (this version) of Souf article, the source (here) in Jerash article is a circular referencing which is already taken from the wikipedia article. (look here) to make sure. so this sentence:Souf was the seed for modern Jerash. should be deleted cause of fake source.
Please stop discussing old versions of the article which has been updated. The discussion is bout the current version rather the history of the article.
  • 2: Same here, the sentence: The people of Souf and its surrounding villages moved to Jerash. Later it became a destination for many successive waves of foreign migrants. related to the source has the same circumstances with the above fake source.
This is a well known fact in Jerash. You are referring to an old version of the article, which is out of date.
  • 3: in (here) the sentence: Souf was the center of the al-Meradh area, the truth is: village Dibbin is the center: (Look Here), as a proof. By the way this's not the right place for this info and it has no relation with topic.
This not right as it contradict this book, which mentions "Souf is a village with about forty families whose principal riches are some olive plantations on the sides of Wady Deir. It is the chief village in the country called Moerad"). However, this information is supported by 20 other books who all visited the ruins of Jerash through Souf which was also referred to as Suf. This seem to be a typo as no narrative explaining as the case with this book Banimustafa (talk) 23:38, 31 May 2012 (UTC).
I do not see any problem in mentioning the information in the two articles in two different context. The information are well known in the region. It is supported by tens of historical records and by the facts on the ground. However, It was a shame to just copy the information and customize it to by replacing Souf with Sakib. The sources mentioned does not mention Sakib and the newspaper article was decided not accepted in the above discussion.
  • 4: (here) this reference doesn't mention the sentence related to it in anyway (look here to make sure). in addition that user already wrote souf in (this version) by simple edit.--HF 18:36, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
The user HF edited Sakib article and copied and pasted entire paragraphs from Jerash article here and other articles.
He faked several sources and use them for supporting the claimed. You said "Numerous travelers mentioned the Sakib region in their writings, with some providing detailed descriptions, including Burkhart, C. Q. Buckingham". I checked both sources and none of them mentioned what you claimed about sakib. They never visited, they never described or mentioned a Sakib. You also used your circular reference from the newspaper that copied your own edit from Wikipedia article in Arabic. Even, after you were told twice in this discussion and in the Arabic version discussion that source is invalid. You even stolen a picture from Jerash article and changed its context to Sakib. I checked both sources and none mentioned Sakib. Banimustafa (talk) 23:16, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
Depending on a similar case in Arabic version and according to clear points above and according to Jerash discussion in DRN, which proved with no doubt that some information in the article are wrong, I've made changes at some info which we sure that it's wrong. Now I hope this will solve the problem and end the case. Thanks --HF 17:53, 2 June 2012 (UTC)