Talk:Jewish-American princess stereotype
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- 1 [Untitled]
- 2 Pejorative?
- 3 Clueless
- 4 Recent expansion
- 5 Photograph
- 6 Questions
- 7 "Original research"
- 8 This article is confusing
- 9 Popular culture section reproduction
- 10 Impressions
- 11 Anti-Semitic?
- 12 "Perceived privlege"
- 13 Terrible!
- 14 Definition is vague
- 15 Not defined
- 16 Only racist or inflammatory if used by white males
- 17 Claims of racism miss the point
- 18 Zappa
- 19 Paris Hilton
Yeah, I just meant that it doesn't sound encyclopedic alone in its current state, more like slang (there are articles & categories for this) and/or something for wikitionary. *shrug* -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 06:07, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It also uses "bitchy" as an adjective in an encyclopedia article. Pardon my bitching, but that seems a little unprofessional.--Lord Shitzu 22:50, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)
I find it hilarious that the article 'requires attention.' Typical.
Cher Horowitz in Clueless is Jewish. In the television series, there is reference to her dressed as a dreidl child for Hanukkah! Writerchick 01:24, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
- Maybe so, but she's never referred to as a "Jewish-American princess". As an outside viewer (a Brit), I'd say she's just a rich kid. Not sure it should be in the article, unless there are citable sources saying she is a typical "Jewish-American princess" --kingboyk 22:57, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Waht do "Beck" and "GHD'd" mean? The second paragraph under anti-antisemitism doesn't make any sense if you don;t know this jargon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 21:14, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
To the extent that this term reflects some kind of sociological reality, we should use references carefully. It is, after all, a slur, and our general approach should be to avoid substantiating the slur. --Leifern 19:21, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
I agree, but think it also needs more careful definition. The article makes it sound as though all Jewish women are JAPs, and of course the JAP is a subset. The Jewish intellectual feminist is no JAP -- at least, not recently. Your bubbe is probably not a JAP unless you're ten years old. Very few converts will make the grade. The woman who runs the foundation -- it doesn't matter which one -- has all the moxie of the JAP, but is not one. There are no JAPs from the Bronx.
Let us not forget that JAPs are tremendously successful in life. Annoying, yes. Hard to see over, true. The lip gloss can blind you. But you can count on a JAP to know the social rules wherever you go, apply them expertly on your behalf when necessary or convenient, and cut through a room of WASPs like a hot knife through butter when it comes to getting what she came for. She's a smart cookie and she'll earn her way into a good school, whether or not she cares for academics. She has more energy than you do and believe me, she knows how to say no. Sure, she'll criticize you -- and she'll be right. In motherhood, she becomes terrifying, and is unstoppable. She may be shallow (or not), but bet on it -- she knows what's important in life, and she'll see her children get it. In her highest form, she becomes Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, and is in deep spiritual communion with her bubbe, who knew how to handle a baseball bat.
Also, the JAP has a daddy who loves her. How can this be bad?
I challenge User:Sigmafactor to demonstrate why the picture of Natalie Portman, who definitively meets the definition of Jewish-American princess, should not appear in this article.--188.8.131.52 06:15, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
- I understand that the idea of a JAP as a caricature, but that doesn't mean that wikipedia should sink to the level of the old "You're so ____ that when you look ____ up in the dictionary, there is a picture of you" gag. It is also a little strange to embed an image of a person that isn't even in mentioned in the article without a caption to give context. --sigmafactor 06:44, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
It it pronounced jay-ay-pee or jap rhymes-with-sap? Also, is Rachel in Friends a JAP? Thanks.
I think that Gretchen Wieners typifies the archetypal JAP, if I've ever seen one.
Is there an application for this criteria when the subject is a non-jew, or should I stick with calling them "preps"? Also, is prep+jew=J.A.P. a safe assumption?
Personal experience indicates to me that there is much factual truth regarding what is supposedly a stereotype. So some are offended...... well, the truth CAN hurt.Obbop 15:03, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Exactly. Stereotypes do exist for a reason. Let's just avoid generalizing. Actually, I'm for expanding this article.Sevenlies 16:46, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
This reads like an essay -- sounds like it draws its own conclusions about the origin of this stereotype, and gives examples, but these appear to be original conclusions and there are no sources cited. I'm tagging accordingly.YeahIKnow 15:29, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
- The problem with that item is it's a sensitive word that is not used commonly in press. It's going to prove hard to find sources willing to use it. It's not violating WP:NEO, it's just a term you're not going to find very many sources attributing its use. It's like most curse words that sort of just show up in the lexicon that no one bothered to investigate. Most likely belongs in Wikitionary, though // 3R1C 17:10, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
This article is confusing
This sentence in the opening paragraph is confusing: "It can be taken and meant as an ethno-religious and/or sexist stereotype or slur."
I haven't personally traveled all over the country (and, to a lesser extent, Canada) but I'm pretty sure this definition of "jap" isn't really a slur. Most of this article agrees with my personal experience that "jap" is a rather lighthearted term that's mostly used among.... well, "japs", if you'll forgive the expression. It's a lot like "army brat"-- any one who has even heard this term knows some one in the army with a kid well enough to not take offense.
The reason I'm putting "jap" in quotes is because it's seriously offensive to call some one a "jap" if they're of Japanese descent. I can remember more than one time when a young Jewish girl used the term, and it totally confused people who had not been enlightened about the whole Jewish Princess thing.
Anyway, that's why I put the tag up. -Haikon 15:20, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Popular culture section reproduction
I've removed the pop culture section per WP:TRIVIA and WP:OR; it's reproduced here if it's felt that individual points are able to be integrated into the main article. DanielC/T+ 17:56, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Characterization in popular culture
- The character of Brenda in the novella Goodbye, Columbus by Philip Roth, and the 1969 film of the same name, starring Ali MacGraw.
- Frank Zappa wrote and performed a song called "Jewish Princess" in his 1979 album Sheik Yerbouti, making fun of the stereotype. Subsequently, 2 Live Jews performed a song called "J.A.P. Rap" in their 1990 album As Kosher As They Wanna Be.
- Judy Benjamin (Goldie Hawn) is a spoiled rich girl who joins the army after her marriage fails, finds herself in a more difficult situation than she ever expected, and ultimately rises to the occasion in the 1980 film Private Benjamin.
- Princess Vespa, the 'Druish Princess', is used to make several references to this stereotype in the 1987 film Spaceballs
- The 1995 movie Clueless, a derivation of Jane Austen's Emma characterizes a self-absorbed, affluent young woman vaguely identified to be of Jewish heritage.
- In the 2002 movie Igby Goes Down, Igby Slocumb (Kieran Culkin), describes facetiously his friend Sookie Sapperstein (Claire Danes), as a "JAP" in reference to her materialistic upbringing in New York.
- The stage persona of Sarah Silverman is often interpreted as an over-the-top stereotypical Jewish-American Princess.
- Gilda Radner's gum-cracking Rhonda Weiss character who promoted "Jewess" jeans in an advertising parody on Saturday Night Live.
- Jessica Stein the main character in the independent movie Kissing Jessica Stein, is an example of JAP representation in popular culture.
- On the Modern Lovers' live album Precise Modern Lovers Order, Jonathan Richman states that his song "Hospital" is based on what he knew about the Jewish-American Princess stereotype (or in his words, the "Jewish Princess Concept").
- The main character played by Lisa Kudrow in the film Marci X.
- Jewish American Princess is the title of an award winning 2006 documentry following the story of Jonelle, a 25-year-old woman, as she explores her heritage and searches for the perfect Jewish man.
- Gretchen Wieners in the popular movie Mean Girls is the quintessence of the JAP
"Examples in the Media" section removal
In the book "Death Of A Jewish American Princess: The True Story of a Victim on Trial" the author, Shirley Frandorf, tells the true story of a man, Restaurateur Steven Steinberg, who claimed he stabbed his wife to death while sleepwalking. According to the defense it was his wife's excesses that contributed to Steinberg's actions of which he was acquitted for. The author Frandorf, a psychiatric social worker, argues how the defenses stereotypical characterization of Elana Steinberg turned the victim into the villain. She further goes on to explain how the outcome brought fear to the women in the tight knit Jewish Community of Phoenix.
WHTZ, of New York, recently played a song called "Jap Rap". They also ran a promotion called "Jap For A Day." The Anti-Defamation League complained about the song and its contest. Afterwards, the program director, Mr. Kingston, said, "if it offended anybody, we apologize."
In 2004, the Style network sent out a casting memo for a show initially called "JAP Squad." The E! executive who sent the memo acknowledged its anti-Semitic overtones, reportedly writing, "I know, it’s an awful name. [But] I need girls who know where to go in NYC for the best deals."
Frank Zappa used "Jewish Princess" as the title and subject of a song on his first independent album Sheik Yerbouti. When the Anti-Defamation League brought an objection to his attention, Zappa refused to apologize saying “They exist, so I wrote a song about them."
In the Mel Brooks movie Spaceballs, Princess Vespa tells Lone Starr she is "daughter of King Rowland, king of the Druids!" Lone Starr responds, "Oh great, a Druish princess." Barf chimes in, "Funny, she doesn't look Druish." The play on words is the similarity between "Jewish" and "Druish" and is a reference to Vespa's spoiled attitude.
The popular sitcom The Nanny is said to be based on the stereotype of a JAP trying to land a rich man.
Like most articles, this one needs references and citations, and before these are given unreferenceable statements should be left out. Also, I think its important to keep an encyclopedic tone to this article. When I first saw it, it seemed like the author had just come to wikipedia after a seething argument or something. RSimione 15:21, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
- Hey, just wanted to say: Wow! I'm impressed with the improvements! Thanks, 184.108.40.206! RSimione 04:04, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
How the heck can "JAP" be anti-Semitic when used by people within the Jewish community? I have a friend who is Jewish and refers to his wife as a "JAP" all the time. And he does so in front of her as well and no one seems offended by the term. In order to be anti-Semitic, there would have to be a sense of hate surrounding use of the word. I have never heard or read anyone, including non-Jews, use the term with a sense of hate behind it. This seems like another case of "Uncle Leo Syndrome". I think that the anti-Semitic label should be removed. Jtpaladin 19:09, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
- And some black people use the term "nigger", yet it's still clearly a racist term. No matter what sense it's intended in individual situations, both terms are derisive based on race and were created with that in mind. It's objectively anti-Semitic - the way it's used may differ sometimes, but the term itself is racially defamatory. DanielC/T+ 14:59, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
- Daniel, I defer to your judgment on the matter. As I mentioned, I have Jewish friends and none take offense to use within their own community. I know that Black people will take offense to the "N" word, but are less devisive when it's used as "N**ga". Either way, I just thought it was worth mentioning. Jtpaladin 00:54, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
- Just a few days ago the N-word (in either form) was laid to rest in a funeral by the Black community. There are some who had and perhaps after its death still feel it is acceptable to use within the black community. However the N**GA stylization never changed the etymology of the word or its pejorative context. It was accepted amongst under-educated, lower class and misguided black youth as a greeting of brotherhood that was meant to signify commonality in the struggle of a disenfranchised American ethnic group. Yet even with its stylization it was obviously still a racist and disparaging term being that it was not acceptable to be used by white people. Some white urban youth in the 90's appropriated it in its same context (note the film "KIDS") yet the black community made it abundantly clear that it was not acceptable and its usage waned all fronts. Ironically however the Hispanic community (IE Cyprus Hill) has appropriated this term with minimal controversy perhaps because of a similarity in the struggle for equality. “JAP” had been for the most part laid to rest after a strong push from the Jewish community in the 80's. This was also during a period when the attacks on Jewish women were most sever. I have noted that among female-Jewish youth it has had a resurgence that has grown along with a sisterly acceptance of the word "B*tch" amongst young American women. After years of women fighting the use of B*tch in entertainment and media; Paris Hilton and Nichole Richie have turned the B-word into the N**ga word for women. J*P has likewise been used by Jewish women. Oddly enough the in-vogue materialistic, shallow and winy image that Paris and Nicole portray is so similar to the JAP stereotype that the term JAP itself perhaps is viewed by naive Jewish women as a positive within their competative social groups. But this does not take away the fact that the use of it or the desire to portray this sad image is self-denigrating for woman and the Jewish community and is as shallow and as mocked as Paris Hilton is. (AS) July 12th
- As a Jew, I don't really take offense to the word, even when it is used by non-jews. Perhaps some would, but I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who considers it to be as offensive as the word "nigger." That obviously my own "original research" though.
In many countries JAP is still used to refer to Japanese. It is simply an abbreviation to Japanese. Yet the vitriolic context it has been used with has made the term unacceptable in the USA while in Australia they still use it even though the Japanese still find it offensive. Words do go through their changes. Homo is not acceptable term for a homosexual and Gay is so often used as negative connotation it is beginning to be replaced by new PC terms. I noticed that Negro is still used in academia in Thailand and some other countries. For a time, and for those of us that faced anti-Semitism in the 80s' during the first popularization of JAP, it brings back hurtful memories as are documented in the "original research" of "original research" that is noted. If you would care to note the positive connotations to this term (and site any research to back it up) I would be open and interested. But what you yourself and your friends do while sitting in your home is not research as you so clearly noted. We can argue all day over terms such as “Tar Baby,” “Macaca,” “Jap” or “Porch Monkey” but just because you “take it back” in your own home does not change the social implications of the word. As far as the offensiveness I would agree that overall the N-word carries more offensive weight do to the continued degree of institutionalized racism and the failure to close the many economic and social gaps between black and white world-wide (AS)
- It's odd how use of the term JAP is considered antisemitic behavior, but if a person actually calls a bratty spoiled girl a "Jewish-American princess" or even just "princess" it scarcely raises an eyebrow. Kel - Ex-web.god 08:44, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
When referring to someone as a "JAP" you establish a stereotype and a negative label. It might not be related to race but it is just as bad. Even if you are Jewish, it gives you absolutely no right to label someone a "JAP". You are be lowering your own religion, and making it okay for others who are non-Jewish to label someone a "JAP". Although some beg to differ, I strongly believe that when someone labels another person whether it is the N word or any other degrading term, one can infer that it is okay for him to repeat the same thing. A great example is when you speak in front of a young child, he or she will repeat everything you say, good or bad because they do not understand the meaning of it. The same thing can apply to any degrading label, if someone calls another person a “JAP” one who doesn’t understand how hurtful and inappropriate the term means will repeat it as if it can be used in a regular conversation. Although “JAP” was intended to be a joke, over the years it has developed a negative connotation, and is very frowned upon in society. Nsaps (talk) 17:19, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Hello, I have a comment about the following sentence:
"The term “JAP” is sometimes used as a self-identifier by non-jewish women of percieved privilege, but this can seem offensive."
Several edits have gone back and forth between putting the word "perceived" into this sentence. It seems to me make the sentence awkward, though I realize some sort of qualifier is needed. I think I'll change it to:
"The term "JAP" has been used by some women in order to be identified as privileged, but this manner can be offensive as it attempts to reinforce the stereotype."
How does that sound? RSimione 13:05, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
I like the change to that sentence!! (AS)
- Thanks! RSimione 22:08, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
This article is terrible. It is is need of a complete rewrite. It sounds like it was written by the ADL. All the instances given in the article are of a xenophobic nature. In reality 99.999999% of the times the term JAP is used it is not as such. Lighten up. --Jon in California 27 September 2007
- There are actually many many instances of it being used in an offensive manner. I'll come up with some references to put here. Just because a given person doesn't use it as a slur does not negate its meaning as a slur.QuizzicalBee 14:25, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
- Uhhhh if someone uses it in a way that is not a slur than it not a slur. Also this article contains only offensive uses of the word, as per my original critique. --Jon in California 3 October 2007
Hey Jon, weren't you at the party the other day with Isiah Washington, George Allen, Michael Richards, Don Imus and Mel Gibson? Of course that's why 99.99% of the people in your little southern California world are fluent in non-offensive language. (AS) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 16:29, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Wow, nice job on calling Jon an anti-Semite. Thats the best way to support your argument.. I understand that in some places this is used as a slur, but being fairly immersed in jewish culture, I know it isnt always or usually used as such. The fact that this article overwhelmingly focuses on its usage as anti-semetic and misogynistic misses a huge proportion of its other uses.
I want to ask if anyone has any problem with the Steven Steinberg case or the author of Death of a Jewish American Princess? I know there has been some confusion over the terms "acquitted." This man did stab his wife. He never denied it. And it was the result of Steinberg stabbing his wife 26 times that lead directly to her death. A major issue for the defense was that his wife was a stereotypical "Jewish-American Princess" which drove him to kill her and thus made him inculpable of his actions for psychological reasons. Acquittal does not mean you did not partake in the action but that you are not guilty of your actions. This case is an important example concerning the negative aspect of the JAP image. Please, if you have issues with the case then take it up in a separate wiki article or state why the author of the book was incorrect in her evaluation of the case. But do not delete this all too relevant case involving the “JAP” termonolgy and image.
Also some on this board have responded negatively to the article saying there are positive uses for the term but have failed to cite relevant records. I'm not even sure if the Space Balls comment was "positive" being that it still was said in a denigrating manner toward a specific group of "women." Please cite any relevant books, research or news items that you have found that mention the positive uses of the term JAP or Jewish American Princess. (AS)
.</ref> In 1982, Phoenix, Ariz., restaurateur Steven Steinberg, who killed his wife by stabbing her 26 times, was acquitted; while he did not deny stabbing her to death, his legal defense portrayed the victim as an overpowering "Jewish American Princess," whose excesses may have provoked her violent end. 
- While the reference in question may be relevant to the article, the additional information you're inserting clearly isn't, i.e. the image and the paragraph containing slang terms. Please limit the contribution to what you've sourced above and there shouldn't be a problem. DanielC/T+ 16:22, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, tihs is very interesting. I'm Jewish myself and I'm wondering why JAP is redirected to Jewish American Princess. It can ALSO be used as a term to denote Jewish American Prince. Either someone should change the redirection, or rename the article to JAP and explain it could mean Prince or Princess. I've seen both used and been called one (Jewish American Prince) myself as a student at Emory University.
Colleges with high Jewish populations seem to be where this term is used the most. (Emory University is over 30% Jewish). Moreover, I've noticed a heavy criticism of the word, and some user noted that it was due it being used negatively in the 80s. Among the current generation of college students, it is not used as harshly offensive term. I've noticed that most fellow college Jewish students use it more than any other group. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 23:02, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Definition is vague
The entire article talks about the usage and history of the term, but it doesn't really define it. What exactly IS a JAP? "implies materialistic and selfish tendencies, attributed to a pampered background" could be attributed to just about any affluent person. What specifically about a person would make other people stereotype them as a JAP? I mean, are you saying that any Jewish woman coming from a wealthy family is a JAP or are there other characteristics?
It's nice that all you in-community people have the terms' connotations so heartily internalized as to be having a debate over what celebrities can have the stereotype attributed to them, but this article really doesn't enlighten anyone who isn't ALREADY familiar with the term. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RemyK313 (talk • contribs) 07:00, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
This article doesn't say anything of substance about the supposed stereotype. Needs re-writing. This article is worthless if it consists of discussions of ancillary items and says nothing about the actual stereotype. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 23:18, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Only racist or inflammatory if used by white males
Please divide this article into the consequences that the use of this horrible racial slur will create for white males who use it, and the convivial friendly sense that it entails when anyone else uses it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 08:05, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
- ^ Sort of like how when certain women get pissed when men use the word "cunt", and yet they use it themselves, often while driving, directed at other women drivers? --188.8.131.52 (talk) 04:39, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
Not quite sure what you mean by racist. Jews come in all shapes and colors. I could understand that a it might not be intended as pejorative if used by a Jewish woman to refer to another woman but the root-history of the term remains the same. I had a Jewish woman ask if my fiancé was a JAP because of where she grew up- in a high-income town with a significant Jewish population. The first clue that something might be deemed an insult is if it seeks to box a group into a category for the use of stereotyping.Does it? Yes. Does it seek to say something negative about those within that stereotype? Yes. Even if someone might fit the first peramaters of the stereotype themselves ("Young Woman of Jewish Heritage with Wealth") it is still derogatory in the same fashion as any other comment that seeks to devalue a person by putting them in a box. Now a fair question is if it is possible to be derogatory about someone’s privileged life regardless of what it may entail about their character. In other words can being privileged possibly be negative? The insult of the JAP term is not concerned only with one being privileged it is what it also implies (spoiled, cold, winny, gaudy, etc.) And by that implication you degrade a person’s individuality by placing them in a category out of spite, love jest. Thus is derogatory out of anyone’s mouth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 17:21, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Claims of racism miss the point
While JAP can certainly be used in a racist way, this is not the point of the expression. What really is underneath it is (seemingly global) phenomenon of spoiled people, in particular women, growing up into brats, "princesses" and the like.
The main point is P, not JA. Further, in JA, I would actually rate the A as more important: The secondary point is not that these women are Jewish, but that they are American. (As opposed to Jewish-Polish/-Russian/-German/... Effectively, perceived images of the "traditional" and "modern" Jewish women are contrasted.)
It could conceivably be argued that the expression would be sexist; however, if it is only applied on the women (or, for all I care, men) who behave like princesses, even that is a misleading claim. As far as it may be pejorative: Pejorative does not necessarily mean unfair. (In contrast, if the phrase is over-extended and undue generalizations are made, then a case can be made against it.)
So what about when Paris Hilton got into trouble for saying "we're JAPpy jews!"? Most west coast Americans born after 1985 had never even heard the term before that incident. --220.127.116.11 (talk) 04:37, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
- Death of a "Jewish American Princess": The True Story of a Victim on Trial (Villard Books, 1988)
- Rap Song Called Anti-Semitic, New York Times; Tuesday, July 3, 2007.
- Style network casts for “JAP Squad.”
- Death of a "Jewish American Princess": The True Story of a Victim on Trial (Villard Books, 1988)