Talk:Jewish messianism

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Shituf[edit]

Jewish rejection of JC isn't based on Shituf, which has to do with idolatry.

A certain editor is trying to insert "see Shituf" into this article. His reasoning seems to be that since some Jewish rabbinical authorities view Christianity as being shituf, shituf is about Christianity. And since Christianity is about Jesus, and since Jesus was a messianic claimant... well, you can see the convoluted logic there.

Judaism's rejection of the messianic claims of Jesus are one issue. Judaism's view on whether Christianity is monotheistic or not is a completely separate one. But this editor seems to have an agenda, and it's getting harder and harder to see his edits as being in good faith. -LisaLiel (talk) 13:40, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Change in Historical Views: Talmud[edit]

I made a change in Historical Views: Talmud. It was written there: He [Elijah] answered him, 'This is what he said to thee, To-day, if ye will hear his voice.'

"if ye will hear his voice" is not the meaning of the sentence. It is a sentence taken from a verse in Psalms 95;7: "today if you will listen to his voice".

The true meaning of the sentence is "listen to his voice", it is also the only right translation there is.

It means to obey, to listen to what G-d says to you and do what he tells you to. Not to hear his voice.

Jesus[edit]

Surely any article about the Jewish Messiah should at least have a one line statement somewhere that the Christian religion believes Jesus was the Jewish Messiah? Yes I know this article should be from the Jewish point of view but it definately should make a mention of this significant fact about the Jewish Messiah when 100's of millions of people in the world believe this? (djambalawa (talk) 03:30, 30 December 2008 (UTC))

They believe he is the Messiah, period, and that Jews are wrong for not believing in him, but not that he is the Jewish messiah. -- Avi (talk) 05:56, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps then this article should be renamed, because the claim of Christianity is precisely that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah. The title is potentially confusing. The other possibility is to include a line or two with a link to another article. Additionally, thousands of Jews believe that Jesus is the Messiah. Maybe the link at the top is sufficient? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.180.3.195 (talk) 00:07, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Woops[edit]

Sorry had a brain fade there is mention at an end section - but because of its significance I'd still argue a mention of this early in the article. djambalawa (talk) 03:33, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Apocalypse of Gabriel[edit]

There was an interesting article in the New York Times about the apocalypse of Gabriel, an ancient jewish text uncovered by Israel Knohl which identifies the messiah as Sar hasarim. [1] This ancient text appears to have interested both ancient jews and early christians, and it may possibly be further explored by contemporary scholarship. 69.157.229.153 (talk) 15:54, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Messiahs in the historical, rather than eschatological, sense[edit]

If one were to judge people as messiahs by the standards of biblical history (in the sense that people like Cyrus the Great were), rather than eschatological parts, then one might think of people such as Theodor Herzl and Harry Truman (well, debatable) and the people who accomplished in 1948 what Bar Kochba couldn't several centuries earlier: establish a viable Jewish state. True, the Temple isn't restored, but there is an enormous open air Jewish synagogue on the Mount's footsteps and Jewish forces did take over the Temple Mount before voluntarily giving it back to the Muslims, as far as I know.192.12.88.7 (talk) 04:46, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Maimonides's view of Jesus[edit]

The last section on Maimonides's view of Jesus has no reference. It is not acceptable, because it that goes against all known sources about Maimonides's view of the subject.. He went as far as stating that Christians are "idolaters": Mishneh Torah, "Abodah Zarah", 9: 4. The above section should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.108.242.189 (talk) 20:54, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

The last section on Maimonides's view of Jesus has no reference. It is not acceptable, because it that goes against all known sources about Maimonides's view of the subject.. He went as far as stating that Christians are "idolaters": Mishneh Torah, "Abodah Zarah", 9: 4. The above section should be deleted.

^^^^ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.108.242.189 (talk) 20:56, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Agreed section entitled "Maimonides's view of Jesus" is unverifiable as unsourced. It also does not seem to fit the article as it has no relation to the subject of Jewish messianism, being about a Jewish view of Christianity. It should be removed. Mweisenfeld (talk) 03:34, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

This Article Needs a "Criticisms" section.[edit]

Sorry, it just does; I cliqued on it hoping for an opposing viewpoint to the idea of Messianism but, I was dissapointed.


67.148.120.87 (talk) 14:11, 2 February 2010 (UTC)stardingo747

Maybe, maybe, but the article is so confused and lacks so many citations of the right kind (secondary), that it is equally important that it is properly referenced. F.ex. the section Scriptural requirements uses some Bible citations that IMHO cannot be connected to Messiah if read correctly, a shallow skimming gives Isaiah 2:4 (refs to God, no Messiah context at all) and 2:11-17 (claims nothing of that kind). Secondary sources needed! Rursus dixit. (mbork3!) 12:49, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
Correction: the overwhelming majority of those primary references speaks of Lord God, not of a Messiah, so unless Messiah is Lord God, ... Rursus dixit. (mbork3!) 13:15, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
...in your opinion. However, this article does not reflect your opinion, it is to reflect the point of view of Judiasm. This is not the place for those who oppose the teachings of Judaism in this area to attempt to argue against them. This article reflects Judaism's views. Please evangelize elsewhere on your own time. 69.249.104.253 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:12, 5 April 2010 (UTC).

Capitalization or no[edit]

Crossposted to Talk:Messiah#Capitalization_or_no

In certain articles, the term "messiah" is given capitalization -in what appears to be particular to the Jewish messiah concept, to discern between Jewish and non-Jewish conceptions of "messiah." I think this presents a bit of a POV issue, as using capitals for the Jewish concept serves to give a kind of title to one particular conception. Ostensibly, it can be argued that the Jewish moshiach is a titular post one which deserves a titular capitalization. But we don't for example give title to a non-existent king as "King," unless that position has been filled and we are referring to a particular being. Discuss -Stevertigo (t | log | c) 00:23, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Jesus considered to be the Messiah in Islam[edit]

From Jesus in Islam:

"`Îsâ Ibn Maryam ( Arabic: عيسىtranslit.: ʿĪsā ), known as Jesus in the New Testament, is considered to be a Messenger of God and al-Masih (the Messiah) in Islam." Editor2020 (talk) 20:52, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Noted the references. I think to be pertinent here, though, a clarification of what al-Masih means in Islam and more specifically how it differs from the Jewish concept. In an article about Jewish messianism, it is not sufficient to cite the use of a similar word. In Islam, the term only refers to Jesus' healing powers, and is simply an identifier. While "messiah" means different things in Jewish and Christian theology, there is a consensus on a kingship implied by the anointing of the individual rather than he being the one doing the anointing.

I don't want to get into a reversion war with anyone, but I think the edit as it stands clouds rather than clarifies the issue. Mweisenfeld (talk) 12:22, 25 March 2014 (UTC)