Talk:Jews

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For prior discussions of the infobox in the top right corner of the article, please visit Talk:Jews/infobox.


The Word "Jew" Simply Means from the Tribe of Judah[edit]

The word Jew simply means from the tribe of Judah. The word Jew is directly derived from the word Judah. There were actually 12 tribes of Israel so technically if a person is descendant of one of these other tribes and not Judah they are not a Jew. Although they are all Israelites. The word Jewish means "Like a Jew". Someone can be called Jewish but not even be a blood Jew simply because they practice the ways of a Jew. The "ish" on the end of Jew turns it into an adjective that describes what someone is like but not actually what they are like. For instance a person can be called "devilish" because they are like a devil but not actually be the devil. I believe these facts should be added to the lead of the article. 2602:306:C518:6C40:DDC7:CB30:942:8FFE (talk) 15:20, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

I think we have the origin of the word "Jew" from "tribe of Yehudah" in the article. Debresser (talk) 17:29, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
Terms such as Jew and Jewish and others are often used in various ways, which is confusing for many. I shall start a new section related to this topic. And I do agree that some discussion about the confusion of terms is highly relevant to the article, and needs to be incorporated into it if it is not already. (I didn't check.) See my new section, to be added in a moment. Thanks for bringing this up. Misty MH (talk) 20:45, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Terms such as Jews, Jew, Jewish, and others[edit]

Terms such as Jews, Jew, Jewish, and others have been and are still used in ways that may be confusing for hearers and readers. This is significant to the topic and to the article. In common practice, these terms are used to mean many of the meanings listed below, depending on context of usage. This has been confusing to people for a long time, and sometimes still is. Some clear mention of this should be included in the article, if it has not been done already.

  • I am writing most of this in reference to how I have perceived these terms to be used in the USA, as that is what I am most familiar with, and particularly near the NW coast.
  • Because of confusion and uncertainty, a reader and listener may need to be thinking about which an author means: Race, Religion, Culture, Tribe (of Judah), or Other.

"Jew" vs. "Jewish" – As to usage in the USA today (NW coast):

  • The term "Jew" often refers to a person's race, and seems to not be used as often in reference to the religion. In much of contemporary literature/writing, it may occasionally refer to a Tribe distinction – meaning, being from the Tribe of Judah and not another of the 12 Tribes – but that is more likely to occur when the topic of Tribes itself is being discussed. It is also used in reference to the Nation of Israel (more below).
  • The term "Jews" is often used the same way as the term "Jew", but it depends on the user and the context.
  • The term "Jewish" seems to regularly refer to either religion or race, depending on context. It is also used in reference to the Nation of Israel.

Other terms – As to usage in the USA today (NW coast):

  • The term "Israel" is often used in the Bible in reference to the whole Nation, but sometimes as a distinction between the Kingdoms when they split into the Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah. It may be at times used interchangeably with other terms here. It is also used in reference to the Nation of Israel.
  • The term "Israelite" is common but hasn't taken over the word "Jew" entirely in usage, especially in speech. It usually if not always refers to the Nation Israel or to Race. I have not seen it used in reference to religion. It may sound funny, but it may at times be also used in reference to the Nation of Israel, or to the people of the Nation of Israel.
  • The Bible itself seems to use multiple terms; though, "Israelite" isn't one that I recall seeing in the English versions that I am most familiar with. I do not recall seeing it used much in reference to the Nation of Israel, but it may be.
  • The term "Hebrew" seems to hardly ever be used in colloquial speech to refer to race or ethnicity. It is, however, sometimes used in this way in literature related to the topic, and in reference to the Bible.
  • The terms "Jew" and "Jewish" are regularly used – in speech and in writing – to refer to many of the above. Even a single author or speaker may use the terms in multiple ways. This is not uncommon, and may help lead to confusion at times. Unless religion is specifically being discussed, these two terms may more often refer to race/ethnicity, or to the Nation of Israel, or to Culture (food, etc.); they seem to be seldom used to refer to someone as from the Tribe of Judah. In the Bible "New Testament", my recollection is that they are often used in reference to the people as a whole, or to a single person, or to the Nation of Israel, and on occasion used in reference to religion, depending on the English version being used.
  • Usage of these various terms, of course, almost certainly depends on the region, the people using it, on various contexts, and on various purposes of use.
  • Some of the terms here are used interchangeably; some might sound odd in certain contexts where usage is less common.
  • Often a term that is being used can be understood by its context of usage. And I think that in this case, this may be one of the best ways to determine its intended meaning (other than by asking).

Other thoughts:

  • I think that confusion over the usage of these terms added considerably to the ability of those promoting antisemitism etc. to succeed in their efforts. I see more consciousness of these issues being brought to the fore, but I don't see clear resolutions becoming prominent. Therefore, it seems a worthy topic to discuss and resolve in international affairs, and for the sake of all involved.
  • I did not consult any usage references for this discussion here, or any experts for their opinions. If there are any mistakes herein, my apologies, as this was in large part based on my own observations – and on previous discussions – and was off the top of my head.
  • How Jews themselves (of all types) wish to use these terms is worthy of research, and possibly worthy of a separate article on that topic (if one does not already exist).
  • "Honor all" people!

Misty MH (talk) 21:12, 8 May 2014 (UTC) Misty MH (talk) 21:10, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

If you wish to add comments, please do so below, not above. Thanks! Misty MH (talk) 21:13, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Infobox pictures[edit]

I want to make a change to the top right box with pictures of famous Jews, and would like to note it here for all to see, and anyone to make suggestions.

I am using a list of 100 people from adherents.com, which itself cites "The Jewish 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Jews of all Time" (Citadel Press Book, 1994), written by Michael Shapiro, a composer from New York.

I will also make sure to check the wikipedia page of the linked person to make sure there are no mistakes.

I will use 4 columns and 5 rows, resulting in 20 choices, focusing on the most famous names.

As I am unable to make these changes, I was hoping someone who was able to could help.

The list I wish to use (suggestions welcome): 1) Jesus of Nazareth 2) Albert Einstein 3) Sigmund Freud 4) Karl Marx 5) Baruch de Spinoza 6) Maimonides 7) Niels Bohr 8) Benjamin Disraeli 9) Franz Kafka 10) David Ben-Gurion 11) Lenny Bruce 12) Michael Dell 13) Noam Chomsky 14) Scarlett Johansson 15) Jonas Salk 16) Henry Kissinger 17) Emma Goldman 18) Harry Houdini 19) Bob Dylan 20) Steven Spielberg

Haimson (talk) 00:47, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Update. I made the edit. Haimson (talk) 00:58, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Good-faith edit reverted. Layout and content of the infobox montage have been established by consensus. (Previous discussions on this page have been archived.) A new consensus would be required to adopt any of your proposed changes. Hertz1888 (talk) 02:26, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi Hertz1888. I'm new here. How can we get a new consensus established? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haimson (talkcontribs) 15:39, 23 July 2014 (UTC) Haimson (talk) 16:28, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
It involves waiting patiently for responses and discussion to develop. I would not be optimistic about the outcome. Many of your choices were previously rejected, and the increased number of images as well. Hertz1888 (talk) 15:56, 23 July 2014 (UTC)