Talk:Jews

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Good article Jews has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
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For prior discussions of the infobox in the top right corner of the article, please visit Talk:Jews/infobox.


Infobox pictures[edit]

I want to make a change to the top right box with pictures of famous Jews, and would like to note it here for all to see, and anyone to make suggestions.

I am using a list of 100 people from adherents.com, which itself cites "The Jewish 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Jews of all Time" (Citadel Press Book, 1994), written by Michael Shapiro, a composer from New York.

I will also make sure to check the wikipedia page of the linked person to make sure there are no mistakes.

I will use 4 columns and 5 rows, resulting in 20 choices, focusing on the most famous names.

As I am unable to make these changes, I was hoping someone who was able to could help.

The list I wish to use (suggestions welcome): 1) Jesus of Nazareth 2) Albert Einstein 3) Sigmund Freud 4) Karl Marx 5) Baruch de Spinoza 6) Maimonides 7) Niels Bohr 8) Benjamin Disraeli 9) Franz Kafka 10) David Ben-Gurion 11) Lenny Bruce 12) Michael Dell 13) Noam Chomsky 14) Scarlett Johansson 15) Jonas Salk 16) Henry Kissinger 17) Emma Goldman 18) Harry Houdini 19) Bob Dylan 20) Steven Spielberg

Haimson (talk) 00:47, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Update. I made the edit. Haimson (talk) 00:58, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Good-faith edit reverted. Layout and content of the infobox montage have been established by consensus. (Previous discussions on this page have been archived.) A new consensus would be required to adopt any of your proposed changes. Hertz1888 (talk) 02:26, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi Hertz1888. I'm new here. How can we get a new consensus established? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haimson (talkcontribs) 15:39, 23 July 2014 (UTC) Haimson (talk) 16:28, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
It involves waiting patiently for responses and discussion to develop. I would not be optimistic about the outcome. Many of your choices were previously rejected, and the increased number of images as well. Hertz1888 (talk) 15:56, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

The list is OK mate i support it but you should add Natalie Portman and Bar Refaeli as well they are more famous than some of these people on your list.. elmasmelih 13:33, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

I think the current infobox is brilliant! It's not overcrowded, and the fact that it's 3 lines of 3 allows to save space on width yet use larger images. The selection is also brilliant. I love the fact Sholem Aleichem was used, the most important Yiddish writer, and Marc Chagall, the greatest Jewish painter. I also love the balance between Ashkenazi and Sephardi & Mizrahi Jews. 2 Sephardic Jews out of 9, which is very fair if you look at the percentage of Sephardi Jews out of world Jewry in general (which is around 20%). My opinion is don't change anything. One of the best collages I've seen on Wikipedia, and I don't exaggerate. I also love the fact the names are written right under the picture!

The list you suggested is to American-centered, doesn't consider the balance between Ashkenazis and Mizrahis, and using Jesus...? We don't have an authentic image of him, and to be honest, we don't even know if he existed. And how can you suggest a Jews list without Sholem Aleichem, Marc Chagall? And why do you need to cause controversy by suggesting Noam Chomsky and Emma Goldman? Why not suggest Trotsky as well? we are trying to avoid controversy, why light a bonfire? It's good to keep it "small" and simple, something everyone agrees on.

I understand you meant good, but people really need to try and change infoboxes just for the sake of it or so they could pet themselves on the back "that's mine infobox!". This is a really great infobox with a good selection, right balance and good style. Unless you have a really good idea that can really help it or improve it, what is the point suggesting something just for the sake of it? Each and everyone of us can create their own Jews infobox, but what is the point? 90.198.246.7 (talk) 22:06, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Number of Jews in Hungary[edit]

The World Jewish Congress estimates there are 35,000–120,000 Jews in Hungary. The demographer Sergio DellaPergola ("widely acknowledged as the leading authority in demography and statistics related to the Jewish population all over the world") estimates 48,600. I believe DellaPergola is more accurate. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 19:26, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Alright. That is the core population, presumably. However, I think it would be appropriate to list a full estimation in all of its range not just pick the median value and go with it, and speaking of ranges here the numbers may vary: DellaPergola 48,600–85,000 versus WJC 35,000–120,000, ADL/news figure always c.100,000. That was my only issue with it. ItsAlwaysLupus (talk) 00:48, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Proposal: Change David Ben Gurion with Golda Meir[edit]

Hi,

First of all, I must say the current collage is brilliant. It's not overcrowded, and the fact that it's 3 lines of 3 allows to save space on width yet use larger images. The selection is also brilliant. I love the fact Sholem Aleichem was used, the most important Yiddish writer, and Marc Chagall, the greatest Jewish painter. I also love the balance between Ashkenazi and Sephardi & Mizrahi Jews. 2 Sephardic Jews out of 9, which is very fair if you look at the percentage of Sephardi Jews out of world Jewry in general (which is around 20%). My opinion is don't change anything. One of the best collages I've seen on Wikipedia.

I have one suggestion which is: Insert Golda Meir instead of David Ben Gurion. Reason: Both are Prime Ministers of Israel and represent the same thing. However, Golda Meir is a woman, which will help the male/female balance.

If the consensus will approve it, then we can do what was done on the Russian Jews and Ukrainian Jews pages, which is put a woman in the center of every line and make it look better in terms of esthetics. That is, there will be 3 lines of 3, and a woman in the middle of every line.

If you approve it, it will look like that:

This page is about the Jewish people. For their religion, law and culture, see Judaism.
"Jew" redirects here. For other uses, see Jew (disambiguation).

{{Infobox ethnic group |group = Jews |native_name = Hebrew: יהודים‎ (Yehudim)

|image =

Maimonides
Emmy Noether
Baruch Spinoza
Sholem Aleichem
Golda Meir
Franz Kafka
Albert Einstein
Natalie Portman
Marc Chagall

I know what a strong consensus this collage received when it was made, and I am fully aware I can't do any changes without getting this change approved here by a consensus. 90.198.246.7 (talk) 22:29, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

I for one agree. Debresser (talk) 21:27, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
As do I. The substitution and rearrangement looks like a desirable enhancement. Hertz1888 (talk) 09:10, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

No. of Jews in Iran[edit]

I want to make a change to the number of Jewish people in Iran. According to the Tehran Jewish Community(Iran) There are about 25000 to 35000 Jews in Tehran and other cities of Iran. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikimkh (talkcontribs) 22:51, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

If you have a reliable source i don't see a problem to combine it with the current source (i.e 8,756-35,000). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Infantom (talkcontribs) 18:41, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Correction[edit]

The current article, in the sub-section "Ethnic Divisions," wrongly states twice in that section, "The Teimanim from Yemen and Oman, etc." To the best of my knowledge, Jews as a group have never lived in Oman, although individual Jewish travelers may have passed through there. The word "Oman" should be deleted from the section, since Teimanim (or Yemenite Jews) is a generic term implying only those communities who lived in Yemen and in the Aden-Hadramawt region, but NOT in Oman.Davidbena (talk) 00:10, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Infobox portraits[edit]

Sorry for my English. I suggest adding Ovadia Yosef. As of now, there's two European Sephardim and seven Ashkenazim in Infobox, without any Middle Eastern Mizrahi. Iraqi Jews were very important Jewish community, and Yosef may represent it.

Secondly, he was a rabbi. In current collage only Maimonides was particularly engaged with Judaism, and he lived in the Middle Ages. Spinoza was critical of Judaism, and the rest are completely secular. Yosef was a prominent modern Jewish scholar.

Thirdly, he could fill the chronological gap. Now it's two medieval Jews, followed by 6 people born in second half of the 19th century, and then immediately Natalie Portman.

And finally, only two Israelis at the moment: Ben-Gurion and Portman, with the latter lived in the US for the most of her life, as far as I know.--Triggerhippie4 (talk) 15:58, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

I suggest replace Sholem Aleichem, since he's a writer and we already have Kafka.--Triggerhippie4 (talk) 16:10, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

No problem here. Debresser (talk) 18:53, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
I agree with the basic idea of increasing the diversity, and propose to replace one of the writers by a musician like Leonard Bernstein, Gustav Mahler, or Felix Mendelssohn. However, not sure whom, Kafka or Sholem Aleichem. Sholem Aleichem wrote in Yiddish and focused on genuine Jewish topics. On the other hand he is already in included in three other collages, Ashkenazy Jews, Russian Jews, and Ukrainian Jews, while Kafka is so far only in Czech Jews. Sholem Aleichem is of course not the only one: The same is true for Einstein and Chagall. So what is better? Always choose the one who fits best, or spread different persons over different collages? --Off-shell (talk) 21:55, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
When I suggested to replace Sholem Aleichem I meant with Ovadia Yosef. see above why.--Triggerhippie4 (talk) 22:07, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
If Spinoza was critical of Judaism, so why not replace him with Yosef, a Sephardi rite rabbi? As 90.198.246.7 pointed above, the current ratio of Sephardi to Ashkenazi in the collage roughly corresponds to the percentage of each community in the world Jewry. And if we choose Bernstein instead of one of the writers, this will also be someone born in 20th century. --Off-shell (talk) 22:14, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, I was too fast with my remarks. I looked through the page of Yosef which I was not aware of before. If it's all true what is written there I think he is a too controversial figure to be included in the collage. --Off-shell (talk) 22:30, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
He was controversial, but I don't think that anybody disagrees he was the most important Sephardic leader of the last few decades. Whatever else they may think of his viewpoints. Debresser (talk) 23:01, 16 September 2014 (UTC)