Talk:Joe Jackson (manager)

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Homosexual?[edit]

Why this line? "In 2003, in an interview for BBC TV, Joseph admitted to using physical punishment on his children and also voiced his disapproval of homosexuality." It is like it is thrown in just to throw it in. Who cares if he did not like gays? It is not a crime to not like gayness. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.187.106 (talk) 03:53, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

  • Look around you. It IS a crime now to disapprove of homosexuals, it just hasn't been codified yet. It will be by 2020 or so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.193.27.158 (talk) 20:12, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I didn't see the contributor added the issue of homosexuality as a reason or cause for Joseph's brutal attacks on his children. Joseph was a cruel-master and homophile. He didn't just hit or whip them - he did more.

The One and Only Worldwise Dave Shaver 04:48, 1 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaxdave (talkcontribs)

Homosexual issue, give me a break. However, as a student at Indiana University in the spring of 1968 I was invited to a fraternity party at which the Jackson 5 entertained in the ballroom of the Indiana Hotel in Bloomington, IN. I was fortunate to meet Mr. Jackson and the watch the children and their magic. My girlfriend and I had noticed a small boy sleeping behind the speakers during the groups performance and asked Mr. Jackson how his toddler could sleep behind all those huge speakers the band was using as they stopped for a break and he carried the child away. He answered that the child was used to it, I assume it was Randy Jackson sleeping behind those speakers. At the time the Jackson 5 had not been heard of beyond their local area and had been booked for the dance because some of the fraternity members from the Gary, IN area knew of them. Mr. Jackson was rude, patronizing and unfriendly to both of us. His demeanor made me uncomfortable so I walked away to watch the young brothers, specifically Michael who was simply amazing for a little nine year old boy. My girlfriend continued to engage Mr. Jackson in small talk finally walking back to me and commenting on Mr. Jackson being the most unfriendly, rude character she had ever run into. That Mr. Jackson tops the list of all time nasty characters I have had to engage in my life...you bet, that he was demanding and terribly hard on his kids...I saw that; did he steal their childhood...you bet; did he make them multi-millionaires...you bet. So did his nastiness pay off...who knows if that was necessary, but it was an overwhelming clue to his behavior and character. How do you argue with success...or define it? He and the story of the Jackson family remind us that every form of refuge has a price. They paid it and can't complain.

This was a personal incident I participated in and needs no reference.

```` —Preceding unsigned comment added by SSGKCarson (talkcontribs) 02:47, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Profile Picture[edit]

Found a decent picture for this page, submitting for review. http://www.nndb.com/people/799/000030709/smilin_joe.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dbrown1986 (talkcontribs) 23:35, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Illegitimate child[edit]

I have again removed the reference to Joh'Vonnie for the reasons I stated below and the fact that the cited source was a tabloid called "the mirror", hardly credible or up to wikipedias standards.Until Joe says that's his child or there is DNA evidence, she should not be included on this page.Tessie xo (talk) 05:01, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

The article currently lists Joe Jackson's children with his wife, shouldn't the name of his other child be posted as well (albeit perhaps separately from the current listing)? Source: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137049,00.html

I have removed this information until a credible source can be given that Joh’Vonnie Jackson is indeed Joe's child. Tessie xo (talk) 02:37, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

It should also be noted that on Joe Jackson's official website http://www.joseph-jackson.de/start_en.html he does not list Joh’Vonnie Jackson under his list of children at all. Tessie xo (talk) 02:39, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Those of you who are "removing" the existence of Joh'Vonnie are putting your own personal opinion into Wikipedia. You don't want it there, so you'll continue to take it off of there. Doesn't Katherine Jackson talk about the fact that Joe had this affair for a long time and continued to talk about the fact that it produced a child, the aforementioned Joh'Vonnie JACKSON. A simple google search shows plenty of evidence that this is Joe's child, you have interviews with her where she confirms Joe is her father, you have pictures of the two of them together, again, you have Katherine Jackson admitting it, talking about it, even going as far as to invite her to live with them at the Encino home several years ago. It's my opinion that those of you that are taking this information off of here are doing 2 different things; 1. holding different standards of evidence/sources for different articles, isn't it funny that several of the news sources that I have read that have reported about her have been good enough for other people pages, but for Joe Jackson, I guess we hold a higher standard; and 2. You are playing "wiki-God" and putting your own personal thoughts and feelings into holding back the truth. Are you denying the existence of this women? Anyone, and I mean ANYONE with a hint of common sense can understand who she is. The only way that this information will be added to Joe's page according to you is to "have a DNA test". I had no idea that Wikipedia held that kind of standard of evidence to put a persons child on their page. Does Wikipedia do that with everyone? Has everyone who is on Wikipeida who is listed as someones child, has all of this been confirmed by Wikipedia through DNA test? Wow, this is just hilarious. Again, this is just you not wanting it there, denying the truth that is out there EVERYWHERE. And why is it not on Joe Jackson's website? Why would it be? Would you put your illegitimate child on there? That's the thing about Wikipedia though, they put the truth no matter how ugly. Wow, Wake up. Zdawg1029 (talk) 01:54, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

I found this in The Telegraph regarding Joe's alleged child. I agree the three other previously posted sources were questionable but I think the Telegraph is considered a reliable source. What do other editors think? (Khan, Urmee (September 14, 2009). "Michael Jackson’s secret sister JohVonnie Jackson says she was 'rejected'". The Telegraph. Retrieved 12 May 2013. )Coaster92 (talk) 05:35, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
a single source that is basing its coverage on a story from the Mirror is not really the type of sourcing that we would want to use in a case like this. WP:BLP / WP:UNDUE -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 20:40, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

And there it goes again, this story is coming from multiple sources, including the Jackson family themselves who have spoken about it. It's true, face it.Zdawg1029 (talk) 03:57, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Biased?[edit]

This article is very much biased in favor of Joseph Jackson. Not objective at all. Does not meet Wikipedia standards. Too long. User:137.224.252.10

  • I think it's absolutely correct. He abused his kids and now one of them gets all the blame and jokes.

Hmmm, maybe the sentence "Many credit him for discovering and molding his children's talents, helping to make the entire family something of an institution." could be rewritten into "Many discredit him for disturbingly exploiting his children's talents, helping to make the entire family belong in something of an institution." 85.226.122.227 01:50, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

  • It completely contradicts itself. Make up your minds as to whether or not he beat his children and where he lives, won't you?
  • June 27, 2009 (dbrown1986) = While I agree and myself believe that he did not do so very well, every father does what they think is best for their children; up until they come of age and make their own decisions. I don't approve of his 'totalitarian' attitude towards the upbringing of his children; but it is every fathers choice on how to raise their children. While the above edit is in itself, truthful, perhaps it can be edited to say both. ie: "While many credit him for discovering and molding his children's talents, helping to make the entire family something of an institution, many also believe and discredit him for disturbingly exploiting his children's talents, helping to make the entire family belong in something of an institution.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dbrown1986 (talkcontribs) 23:40, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

There are standards on Wikipedia, submissions are controlled by the populous, therefore the standards are fluid, biased at times - unbiased at others and up to date within minutes. Wiki does an excellent job at filtering without censoring. HOW DO THEY DO THAT?

The page on Joseph Jackson was submitted, added, updated, and edited. Only dated submissions were Decoember '05 and June '09, There's not much contribution about his life except for his violent parenting.

The proof in the product is revealed in the end. Unfortunately his ticket died before he did and his only public comment about MJ was a sideline when he promoted his new record label.

This guy insisted that his kids call him "Joseph", not dad.

No matter how much we can Wiki to reveal the true Joseph Jackson, we can't - because he isn't a father, he isn't a manager, everything he does violates everything he does - he is a conundrum.

The One and Only Worldwise Dave Shaver 06:21, 1 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaxdave (talkcontribs)

Proposal to make this page disambiguated and move current entry to Joseph Walter Jackson[edit]

I propose moving this page to a more specific page such as his full name, Joseph Walter Jackson, and making this a disambiguation page. Joseph Jackson is very common name and this page will be better used if it refers to all the other gentlemen named Joseph Jackson as well. Any objections? --Roswell native 09:15, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

NOPE! I Wikied and Joseph Jackson went right to this page. The One and Only Worldwise Dave Shaver 04:52, 1 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaxdave (talkcontribs)

La Toya instead of Michael?[edit]

Is La Toya really a "pop icon"? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to mention this man's most famous son? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.238.26.77 (talk) 21:58, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

Making it Current[edit]

This article needs to say more about Joseph's current work. Until I edited it, the most current thing it said was Joseph's desire to organize a boot camp. It said nothing about where he is on that project. I acknowledged that the boot camp has started, but more people ought to elaborate on both the boot camp and Joseph's other current activities. Bibbly Bob (talk) 01:01, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Currently,

His ticket died and he only promoted his new recording company.

His personal website joseph-jackson.de doesn't mention the death of his ticket.

He's cruel to the end.

The One and Only Worldwise Dave Shaver 05:56, 1 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaxdave (talkcontribs)

Hall of Fame?[edit]

According to the inductee list, there is no Joseph Jackson:

http://www.rockhall.com/inductees/alphabetical-list/

Neither of The Hall of Fame entries for Michael and the Jackson 5 mention Joseph.

June 26, 2008
Of course Hall of Fame recognizes Michael and the 5. But why would a "hall of fame" mention Joseph Jackson.

Even when he is 80 years old, his 50 year old son dies and he can only publicize his record company.

I realize Joseph pushed so hard so he could get rich off of his kids. But dang! Did he have to push them away?

R&R Hall of Fame is not a 'House of Torture".

I feel sorry for the wife of Joseph Jackson.

The One and Only Worldwise Dave Shaver 05:04, 1 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaxdave (talkcontribs)

Still married?[edit]

Are he and Katherine still together? I just find it odd that she's been granted temporary custody of Michael's children if he's still in the picture. Are they living together? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.253.54.193 (talk) 00:35, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Correction to Joe Jackson's Parents[edit]

Please change Joe Jackson's Parents names from Samuel Jackson and Crystal Lee King to: Father: Andrew "Jack" Jackson Mother: Mary (Molly) Ratliff/Radliff

Major JACKSON2,16,90,110,134,135,136 was born in 1888 in louisiana.110 He was born in 1893 in louisiana.134 He was born in 1893 in louisiana.135 He was born in 1895 in louisiana.113 He was born in 1898 in Nachitoches Parish, La. He was born in 1898 in louisiana.136 He was born on 19 Dec 1898.16 He was born on 19 Dec 1898.90 He was born on 19 Dec 1898.16 He was born on 19 Dec 1898.16 He was born in 1899 in louisiana.125 He was born in 1900.134 He lived in Police Jury Ward 5, Natchitoches, Louisiana in 1900.110,136 He lived in Campti, Madison, Louisiana in 1910.113 He lived in Campti, Madison, Louisiana in 1910.125 He lived in Chicago, Cook, Illinois in 1930.134 He lived in Chicago, Cook, Illinois in 1930.134 He lived in Chicago, Cook, Illinois in 1930.135 He died in Feb 1974 in Chicago, Cook, Illinois.16,90 He was also known as Andrew Jackson.113 He was also known as Ethel Jackson.134 He was also known as Mayer Jackson.125 SSN issued: Indiana.16,90 He had Social Security Number 312-10-0686.16,90 fifth boy Moved to Morgan Park in 1937

Name: Andrew Jackson JR Age in 1910: 15 Estimated birth year: abt 1895 Birthplace: Louisiana Relation to Head of House: Son Father's Name: Jack Father's Birth Place: Louisiana Mother's Name: Mary Mother's Birth Place: Louisiana Home in 1910: Campti, Madison, Louisiana Marital Status: Single Race: Black Gender: Male Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Jack Jackson 60 Mary Jackson 39 Joe Jackson 3 Dave Jackson 17 Andrew Jackson JR 15 Isac Jackson 12 Mayer Jackson 11 Henry Jackson 8 Luther Jackson 7 Fred Jackson 6 Cleo Jackson 5 Wnnamed Jackson 8/12

Parents: Andrew (Jack) JACKSON and Mary (Molly) RATLIFF/RADLIFF. [1] Shanaland (talk) 04:51, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Sexist and outdated language[edit]

It is ridiculous to describe him as "the patriarch" of his family. There is no such legal concept as "patriarch" in the U.S., grown ups are not subordinate to their parents, and women are not subordinate to their husbands. Such language is sexist and hopelessly outdated. As Jackson is primarily known for abusing his children, he was also not in good standing with his family, and was estranged from several of his children. Language that indicates the rest of the family was subordinate to him is ridiculous. Nashassum (talk) 15:36, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

He was known as "the patriarch" of his family. Perhaps that would be a better phrasing, whether or not the appellation is accurate. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 15:48, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Parents[edit]

Actually his parents's death years are lies because Katherine Jackson's mother Martha Upshaw-Scruse was the only Jackson grandparent who met the children younger then LaToya. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mo'NiqueChild (talkcontribs) 20:30, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

In what year was Joe Jackson really born?[edit]

I sure thought I had a handle on this, but then I started googling for news articles, press releases, and whatnot, and now I don't know what to think. Here's a sample of what I've found so far:

I know that last one is just some kind of blog, but I found the following passage particularly telling:

Even though his invites read that it was his 80th – he said he was 81 and other guests said he was even older than that. “We have been celebrating his 80th birthday for the past few years now,” one guest exclaimed.

My gut tells me that 1928 is probably more likely to be correct than 1929, but unless someone can provide a reliable source on this, then I suggest we add some sort of footnote to the article which describes the uncertainty regarding Mr. Jackson's birth year. Without it, we run the risk of going back and forth like this forever.

This is just one editor's opinion, of course; what does everyone else think? -- Bgpaulus (talk) 22:44, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

According to his official website (http://www.joseph-jackson.de/start_en.html), he was born in 1928. Nickm93 (talk) 20:50, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
Since his official web site says 1928 and the source in the article says 1928 I'm going to change his birth year to 1928.Sjö (talk) 17:14, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

More Joh Vonnie Proof[edit]

Here is an interview with the family. Between 4:00-5:00 it is briefly talked about.Zdawg1029 (talk) 05:32, 7 July 2013 (UTC) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE4h6_bitKc

Public Image[edit]

In the public image section, it says that he has two daughters as the result of extramarital affairs. I know Joh' Vonnie is definitely his, but who is the other girl? Does someone have a source for this? In all my years following this family, I have never heard of a second love child.74.107.103.88 (talk) 17:39, 7 September 2013 (UTC)