Talk:John Dillinger

Joseph P. Moran

That article says Moran was possibly the last to see the mortally wounded Dillinger, which doesn't seem to fit with the account of Dillinger's death in this article. I suspect the other article should refer to John Hamilton (gangster). Can someone confirm/deny? AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 10:10, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

It is incorrect as far as it pertains to Dillinger himself. He may have treated Hamilton, but I don't know that he was the last to see or treat him either, since Moran refused to treat him, who knows. Wildhartlivie (talk) 10:16, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Father Was Raised by an Amish Family

Is it true that Dillinger's father was raised by an Amish family in Ohio until he was 18 years old? 174.88.19.4 (talk) 01:46, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Inconsistencies

He didn't pull a gun when the FBI showed up. The gun they claim was found on him hadn't been manufactured until after the date on which he was killed. It's speculated that it wasn't him that died, but possibly an acquaintance that favored him greatly. His father, upon viewing the body, exclaimed "THIS IS NOT MY SON!" It's not for certain, but neither is his murder at the hands of the FBI.

This article has an obvious bias, which needs addressing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.161.1.54 (talk) 13:00, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

The real bias I see here is the one that supports the notion that Dillinger was not killed, I'd say. The article doesn't say he pulled his gun at the Biograph Theater, it is sourced in the article that he apparently reached for a weapon, which is not identified in the article anywhere, so there's nothing here to state what kind of gun you are disputing. Don't believe urban legends. Wildhartlivie (talk) 13:29, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

While it may be an urban legend that Dillinger did not die that night,it is a fact that the gun the FBI claimed Dillinger attempted to use that night was a fraud. http://www.crimemuseum.org/library/bankHeistsRobberies/johnDillinger.html http://www.crimemuseum.org/blog/?tag=john-dillinger 71.81.32.165 (talk) 01:02, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

And just where in this article is there any claim about a specific gun being made? Wildhartlivie (talk) 18:23, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

"It's also odd, to say the least, that the feds made no real attempt to apprehend Dillinger before shooting him down--the story is he reached for a gun, but the weapon supposedly taken from the body wasn't manufactured till after his death." http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2462/did-john-dillinger-really-die-outside-the-biograph-theater http://oklahombres.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2876036794/m/51710428241 "Among other things, Nash checked with the Colt factory and learned that the .380 automatic displayed in Hoover's office as the gun Dillinger was carrying had not left the factory until five months after the outlaw was reported to be dead. That discovery raised the suspicion that the man shot outside the Biograph had been unarmed, despite the FBI report to the contrary." http://www.jcs-group.com/oldwest/peoples/dillinger3.htmlPissedfluffy (talk) 22:32, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

And again, where in this article does it say otherwise? Unless it has something to do with what is in this article, none of this is helping the article, which is what this page is for. Wildhartlivie (talk) 23:30, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Samuel P. Cowley contacted (...) in the death day of Dillinger .. but he was killed before, according his bio. //?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.61.177.172 (talk) 08:11, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Inconsistencies 2

There are a couple of issues with this article: 1. "He had, in fact, drifted into Chicago and went under the alias of Jimmy Lawrence, a petty criminal from Wisconsin who bore a close resemblance to the bank robber. Taking up a job as a clerk, Dillinger also found a new girlfriend named Mary Evelyn "Billie" Frechette, who was aware of his true identity and even served two years in prison for harboring a criminal." While Dillinger certainly used the alias "Jimmy Lawrence", there is no substantiated proof that there existed a petty criminal from Wisconsin under that name who resembled Dillinger. 2. Dillinger didn't take up a job as a clerk - he supposedly told people that he was a clerk for the Chicago Board of Trade. 3. Polly Hamilton was Dilliger's new girlfriend at that time. Billie Frechette was at the time (July 1934) in prison. 4. Dillinger was in fact shot FOUR times, not three (read the autopsy report): two grazing shots to the left side of the face, one superficial wound to the left chest, and the fatal shot through the neck, exiting under the right eye. Dukeford (talk) 21:57, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Jay Robert Nash's books on Dillinger are full of inaccuracies, faulty conclusions, and outright fabrications (in other words, Nash's Dillinger books are garbage, although they're entertaining). The gun Dillinger was carrying when killed is a prime example. At the time (1934), the FBI noted that the Colt .380 had NO SERIAL NUMBER, as it had been ground off. Contemporary photos of the pistol reflected that very fact - the SN had indeed been ground off. The pistol Nash saw in the FBI display did in fact have a later serial number; however, it has been recently shown that the original Dillinger pistol was misplaced for many years, and a different pistol substituted for it in the display. Dukeford (talk) 22:07, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi, we go by reliable sources that are verifiable. If you have references for all that you say bring them here to this talk page to be discussed. You can't put in origianal research like what you are saying above. Sources are needed to make the changes you talk about. Nash's book is considered a reliable source. If you want to counter what he says in his book find a source to say so. Sorry but that's how it works here. HTH, --CrohnieGal^Talk 20:03, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. But here is one genuine inconsistency:

• (In the intro) He pulled a weapon and attempted to flee but was shot three times and killed. (not cited)
• (Under Biograph Theater) reached into his pocket but failed to extract his gun (cited)

At the very least we should make it clear there are wildly conflicting accounts and points of view in the literature. Can someone access the aforesaid autopsy report on the number of bullets? That's more like the sort of fact-based citation we want. Cheers, Bjenks (talk) 01:30, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I understand "how it works here", sweetheart. It's not original research - when I have some time, I'll provide published, verifiable references. And who considers Nash's books on Dillinger a "reliable source"? Just because someone has had a book published doesn't mean the info contained therein is reliable - or even factual. There have been numerous Dillinger books published since Nash's that completely refute his fictional concepts. Dukeford (talk) 16:05, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Film depictions

Since a couple of folk have raised the issue here, I'll provide my own view. These profit-seeking contrived entertainments have only a remote bearing on this article about 1933-34 events. The movies are subjects on their own and have their own articles, in which their relevance, fictions, misrepresentations, etc, can be spelt out. I'd rather not have such a section at all. Since that's too much to hope for (in our broad WP community context), I say we should limit entries to the bare bones, e.g.,

• Dillinger (1945) starring Lawrence Tierney

Cheers, Bjenks (talk) 01:52, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

inconsistancies 3

As John Dillinger served in the US Navy his induction medical details are still on file. One researcher claimed that the nvay medical file lists Dillinger has having "blue eyes", the body later shown had brown eyes.

Alternatively the recent History Channel computer reconstruction expert had no doubt that the body on show was Dillinger.

Will the complete truth ever be known?AT Kunene (talk) 12:44, 15 January 2011 (UTC)