|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the John Doe article.|
|WikiProject Linguistics||(Rated C-class, Low-importance)|
- 1 JK Rowling
- 2 Content Copy
- 3 Formal and informal
- 4 Remove inappropriate comments
- 5 NPOV?
- 6 Paul Martin
- 7 Fight Club
- 8 Origin?
- 9 Supposed New York City specific names
- 10 Inconsistency in formatting of article
- 11 It would be better ordered by languages
- 12 Fulano
- 13 In Popular Culture
- 14 Disambiguation Page?
- 15 List is extremely unencyclopedic
- 16 John Doe may be dead but...
- 17 Frequency
- 18 For origin of John Doe, there's only one questionable source...
- 19 Add "Jane Doe" and "Jane Roe" to introduction ?
- 20 Serbo-Croatian Version
- 21 Roe VS Doe
- 22 Juan Doe , Juanita Doe
The date referenced by the section on John Doe injunctions in the UK has got to be wrong, or the paragraph is misleading.
In its current meaning, it states that JK Rowling obtained an injunction in 1850. However, JK Rowling is a contemporary author, born in 1965.
- Please refer to the original source that is linked to the quotation as a footnote. My guess is that there was another person named JK Rowling in the 19th century. --hydrox (talk) 20:38, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
- I did refer to it, and the fact that it pertains to an unpublished Harry Potter novel, and the fact that the order, once granted, was served to the internet providers (amongst others) led me to believe that it is in fact the contemporary author that is referenced, and therefore the implication that JK Rowling first obtained a John Doe injunction in 1850, is false. Aethalides (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:36, 2 June 2010 (UTC).
User Kahkonen acknowledged that the list of "John Doe" equivalents in other languages that he added on October 30, 2004:
was copied from fi-Wiki:
which was copied from de-Wiki on October 29, 2004:
I assert that this page from de-Wiki was clearly copied without permission from the following page:
(Which current version can be seen at http://www.funnyname.com/anonymous.html)
--Kim Moser 18:38, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
- All fine and well, but I'd like to remind our readers that such does not imply a copyright violation. Information, as is, can not be copyrighted – it is inherently free. However, a representation of that information, if sufficently original, is automatically copyrighted to the artist (writer, painter, typographer etc.) But here the information on the linked page was copied to the wiki, and originally represented here in the MediaWiki markup without direct copying. Creator of the site does not posses the copyright to the facts stated on the page, so permission is not needed to represent these facts in Wikipedia, as long there is no direct copying that exceeds the "citation" threshold. But the most important thing is still that no body can own the right to the fact Sven Medelsvensson is John Doe in Sweden. You can ask any copyright lawyer if you don't believe me (IANAL), but I think this is the case. --hydrox (talk) 17:36, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Formal and informal
There is a clear distinction between some placeholders, such as "John Doe" (USA) which are used in formal legal documents to refer to a person whose true name is not known; and to informal uses such as "Joe Bloggs" (UK) which is used informally, but never in a legal document. Of course, "John Doe" may also be used informally.
This is a practical issue in a work of reference such as Wikipedia: if I am working on legal documents, I need to know that I can use John Doe in the US, but should not use Joe Bloggs (or any other fictitious name) in the UK. Pol098 03:32, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
- If you're drafting legal documents, I would hope that you're using something other than Wikipedia as a legal reference guide. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 03:12, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
- None of the spanish placeholder name examples are formal, in fact, most of them are highly informal. Up to my knowledge (Native speaker but not a Spanish language degree holder):
- Informal: Fulano, Mengano, Zutano, Sultano, Perengano. The later three are unknown to me and the people I've asked. They seem improvised variations.
- VERY informal: Perico de los Palotes, Rita la pollera. They are used in sarcastic phrases 'Lo va a hacer Rita la Pollera'.
- Pepe Pérez is used when running out of imagination while choosing a random name, like 'John Smith' is used sometimes.
- Don Nadie is used to rudely diminish the relevance of someone. Like 'Ese Don Nadie no va a conseguir lo que se propone.'
- Juan nadie and Juan español seem to be the only legitimate placeholder names but I don't think that they are used in any formal context. The later seems obsolete, it would be used only by the eldest or very patriotic/nationalist people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 11:56, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Remove inappropriate comments
How does one remove inappropriate comments like those below? I can see this text on screen but it didn't show up when I clicked on "edit." Thanks 188.8.131.52 02:57, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
- OK, I deleted them. --esanchez, Camp Lazlo fan! 03:00, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
maybe more encyclopedic wording there:
- ...legal debate over something called the Acts of Ejectment.
The NPOV tag was added to this article yesterday, with no other explanation here on the talk page or elsewhere. I'm not seeing right off the bat what, if anything, is NPOV about it, so I'm going to remove it. I do invite anyone who thinks it is not NPOV to add it back, but with accompanying comments here on this page explaining what they find has a non-neutral POV. --Reverend Loki 17:53, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Is Paul Martin actually a name used in france for this? It doesn't seem french. It is also the name of the former prime minister of canada. I suspect some canadian vandalism, but i can't be sure.
I have a similar problem. I live in the Czech Republic, and the article lists the following names for my country: Jan Novák, Karel Vomáčka, Tomáš Martiník, Jan Skočdopole, pan Neznámý (Mr. Unknown) Jan Novák is definitely correct. Jan Skočdopole is very informal, and is used to signify a person who does manual, unqualified work. The surname is from three words "skoč do pole". It's a command instructing the person to go to the field, presumably to fetch something. I have never heard pan Neznámý, but it makes sense. However, I doubt Tomáš Martiník is used, and if it is it probably isn't wide spread. If I edited the article, it could be (correctly) viewed as original research. So I think we should get some sources, and weed out material that can't be sourced. We could use local Wikiprojects to help us out, since I think most sources will be in the official language of the country in question. Does anyone have energy to do this? Note: The site where this was allegedly copied from only lists Karel Novák, and Jan Novák, and I doubt it would be a decent source anywar. --Puchiko 08:31, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
The main character of Fight Club has been identified by Chuck (can't spell last name) as being named "Jack"
I have heard at least two explanations for the origin of the name. One was that the Capra film was the first use, but this I consider doubtful, and easily falsifyiable by demonstrating one usage before the film. Another theory I have heard is that it derives from the morgue, and specifically from the term D.O.A. - anyone know for sure? -- Cimon Avaro; on a pogostick. (talk) 07:26, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Supposed New York City specific names
The article lists "Joe Botts" and "Vinnie Boombotz" as used "particularly in New York City". Now, I grew up in New York, and never heard any of these. It may be that they are older (I'm in college), or that they are not so common, or that they are more specifically used in a borough other than Manhattan. Just bringing it up, since it's unsourced and I don't recognize them. --DragoonWraith (talk) 07:04, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
- I second this. I am also from New York & have never heard either of these before. caz | speak 06:13, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Inconsistency in formatting of article
The article is very inconsistent in the genealogy of the name Fulan(o/a) as well as offering the gendered form of the words throughout the article, depth of description of names and overall comprehensiveness of sections.
Argentina lists Fulano as "via arabic" and has no feminine endings;
Columbia and Costa Rica says it is "probably from Arabic" and has no feminine;
Bolivia, Brazil, Ecuador, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Portugal, Puerto Rico, Uruguay, Venezuala have no mention of where its Fulano came from nor feminized forms;
Cuba does not say from Arabic at all but does have feminine forms of all the masculine names;
Mexico and Guatemala appear to have some feminized but no attribution to Arabic;
Spain's contains explanation longer than entry on how to feminize words and is much more extensive than other Spanish speaking countries;
the explanation of German names far exceeds other names;
Hong Kong does not have the phonetic pronunciations unlike China;
Hungary's entry seems to have a note written in - "I'm testing" and also contains translations of meaning more extensive than other entries;
Indonesia does not mention the Arabic origin of Fulan;
Ireland's description is longer and more in depth than others;
Pakistan's entry has clearly been cut off and split up as well as listing Fulan from Persian not Arabic (indeed - should the Iran entry be amended to show it's from Arabic, or all the others to show it's from Farsi originally?);
Swahili does not mention the Farsi/Arabic roots.
As I am no expert on which came first, Fulan in Arabic or Farsi or whether words *are* from, *probably are from* or *might be from* (a big distinction this article is missing) and do not know what the appropriate feminized forms whether it's just masculine names feminized or if different names are used, and have zero knowledge of pronunciation guides for the HK words, another person who has more knowledge on the subject should edit the article substantively for these structural problems. Iammaggieryan (talk) 09:37, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
It would be better ordered by languages
I find quite confusing to order this article by countries. Where can we put the names used in Quechua (a language spoken in Argentina, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador and Peru)? And the ones used in Basque (a language spoken in Spain and France)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 19:06, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
in spanish, "fulano" means something like "mr. such-and-such". sure, it may be that the word derives from the arabic, but it has it`s own meaning.
I have never seen the spanish words used in any legal matters, they are for coloquial use only. This is not clear in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 08:15, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
In Popular Culture
If no one objects, I'm going to remove the In Popular Culture section of the article. It's really just an indiscriminate list of random places the term has been used, with no context. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 16:39, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't there be a disambiguation page linked here, for people looking for John Doe (singer, songwriter, and bass player with the band X) or the TV series John Doe? 18.104.22.168 (talk) 18:02, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
List is extremely unencyclopedic
(Justifying the removal of the list) To quote just a few (official) Wikipedia Policies I think apply here:
- - "Wikipedia is not a dictionary or a slang, jargon or usage guide. The goal of this project is to create an encyclopedia."
- - "Wikipedia is not in the business of saying how words, idioms, phrases etc., should be used."
- - Articles are about "a person, or a people, a concept, a place, an event, a thing etc. that their title can denote. The article octopus is about the animal: its physiology, its use as food, its scientific classification, and so forth. " NOT about "the actual words or idioms in their title and all the things it can denote; the word 'octopus': its part of speech, its pluralizations, its usage, its etymology, its translations into other languages, and so forth."
- - "Wikipedia is not in the business of saying how words, idioms, phrases etc., should be used" [in other languages or places], unless fundamentally necessary to the context of the article.
- - Wikipedia is not "a complete exposition of all possible details" or an "indiscriminate collection of information."
That's simply from What Wikipedia is not. Original Research rules are also being missed out on here, read the rest of the talk page for proof of that. Almost all of the comments on the talk page regard the inherent unreliability and controversy surrounding such a list. I'm removing the list until/unless someone justifies or cites it (or somehow makes it otherwise acceptable). 22.214.171.124 (talk) 00:05, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
|Albania||Filani (female: Filania)|
|Arabia||Fulan (Arabic: فلان) (female equivalent: Fulanah, فلانة), Ellan (علان) as a partner. Majhoul (Arabic: مجهول). Taken further, it can become Fulan al-Fulani, or even Fulan ibn Fulan al-Fulani, depending on the intention of the speaker. Zaid wa Amr (Arabic: زيد وعمرو)|
|Argentina||N.N. (ningún nombre = "no name", originally nomen nescio, Latin for "I don't know the name"), Juan Perez, Don Nadie, Fulano (via Arabic), Mengano, Sutano, Perengano, Doña Rosa, Magoya, Pepito, Ñato (persona innominada).|
|Australia||Fred Nerk, Joe Blow, Joe Bloggs, John Citizen (Female equivalent: Jane Citizen), Joe Farnarkle, John Barry, Simon McCool, Bob Johnson, Mike Ward|
|Austria||Hans Meier (alternate spellings: Hans Maier, Hans Mayer.), Max Mustermann, Eva Mustermann (alternate forms: Max Muster, Eva Muster.),, Herr Müller, Herr Huber, Herr und Frau Österreicher|
|Azerbaijan||Ali and Vali|
|Belgium||In a law context usually the initials are used. If not, there is no generic name for anonymous victims or offenders. Outside of the legal cases, commonly used are Jan-met-de-pet (Dutch), Jan Modaal (Dutch, average citizen) or Jean Dupont (French). Ian Van Dahl is the Dutch equivalent of the UK's Joe Bloggs.|
|Bosnia and Herzegovina||N.N., Marko Marković, Petar Petrović, Mujo Mujić, Niko Neznanović|
|Bolivia||Juan Perez, Pepito, Fulano, Sutano, Mengano|
|Brazil||Fulano (de Tal), Sicrano, Beltrano, João da Silva, Zé da Silva, Zé Ninguém, Zé das Couves, Dunha, Xpto, Seu Zé.|
|Bulgaria||Иван Иванов (Ivan Ivanov).|
|Canada||G. Raymond (male/female, mostly on credit cards and ID, used as it could be either an anglophone or francophone name), John Jones, Joe Blow, Jo Blo (Quebec, French adaptation of Joe Blow), John Smith, J. Bloggins (Canadian Forces), Pierre-Jean-Jacques.|
|Chile||N.N. ("Ningún Nombre" or No Name), Fulano, Juan Perez, Moya, Perico los Palotes.|
|China||无名氏 (Pinyin: Wú Míngshì, literally "Mr./Ms. No Name"); 某某 (Pinyin: Mǒu Mǒu, literally "so-and-so"); (using the List of common Chinese surnames with numbers, etc.) 赵大 (Pinyin: Zhào Dà, literally "Zhao Big"), 钱二 (Pinyin: Qián Èr, "Qian 2"), 孙三 (Pinyin: Sūn Sān, "Sun 3"), 张三 (Pinyin: Zhāng Sān, "Zhang 3"), 李四 (Pinyin: Lǐ Sì, "Li 4"), 王五 (Pinyin: Wáng Wǔ, "Wang 5"), ...; (using the Heavenly Stems) 某甲 (Pinyin: Mǒu Jiǎ, literally "a certain A"), 某乙 (Pinyin: Mǒu Yǐ, "a certain B"), 某丙 (Pinyin: Mǒu Bǐng, "a certain C"), ...; 小强，小明...|
|Colombia||N.N. (ningún nombre = "no name", originally nomen nescio, Latin for "I don't know the name"), Fulano, Fulano de Tal (probably from Arabic, Fulan), Pepito Pérez, Zutano, Mengano, Perengano, Perencejo|
|Costa Rica||Juan Pérez, Fulano de Tal (From Arabic "Fulan". Fulano works as a first name and "de Tal" as a last name), Sutano, Mengano, Perencejo, ("Fulano, Sutano, Mengano y Perencejo": used when you want to enumerate a list of people you don't actually know, that you don't want to disclose or when you enumerate hypothetical subjects of an example or of a story. All these names admit female variation: Fulana (de Tal), Sutana, Mengana y Perenceja), bombing man|
|Croatia||Ivan Horvat, Pero Perić, N.N. ("Nepoznati Netko", trns. "Unknown someone")|
|Cuba||Fulano, Mengano, Ciclano, Esperancejo, Juan Pérez (female equivalents: Fulana, Mengana, Ciclana, Esperanceja, Juana Pérez.) Optional surname: de Tal ("of such")|
|Czech Republic||Jan Novák, Karel Vomáčka, pan Neznámý (Mr. Unknown), Franta Vopršálek (humorously)|
|Cyprus||Yiannis (the equivalent of John is used to talk about someone whose name is unknown or as an example of a person in a joke or story)|
|Denmark||N.N. (short for Latin nomen nescio, "I don't know the name"). More informally, the term Hr. og Fru Danmark ("Mr. and Mrs. Denmark") is used as a generic name for any average Danish couple (similar to Mr. & Mrs. John Q. Public and Kari og Ola Normann).|
|Ecuador||Juan Pérez, Fulano, Sutano, Mengano|
|Estonia||Jaan Tamm (male), Tädi Maali (an old female, literally "Aunt Maali")|
|Finland||Matti Meikäläinen (male) and Maija Meikäläinen (female)|
|France||Jean Dupont, Paul Martin, Monsieur Durand, Monsieur Untel / Madame Unetelle (literally "one such"), Monsieur/Madame X, Pierre-Paul-Jacques as in Tom-Dick-Harry (even though those are three very common, distinct given names, this is often said as a long uninterrupted string, as if an actual composed name: "or" is added in the middle sometimes: "Pierre-Paul-ou-Jacques"), L'homme de la rue (literally "The street's man") also called Le français moyen.|
|Germany||Unbekannt ("unknown") is used for unknown defendants in legal cases; Hans/Max/Otto (male) and Erika/Elke (female) Mustermann (Muster meaning 'sample' or 'exemplary', "-mann" is a common suffix in German surnames) is frequently found on samples or specimens of addresses, passports, ID or credit cards (see Erika Mustermann); colloquial expressions are: Lieschen Müller (female), Otto Normalverbraucher (literally "average consumer", referring to a category used in food rationing after WWII), Meier/Müller/Schulze, Hinz & Kunz; in rural Bavaria often the Huberbauer (Farmer Huber; the name Huber being derived from farmer); NN or N.N. (nomen nescio= "I don't know the name", nomen nominandum="name to be named") is used as a placeholder in university catalogues and other written documents, e.g. programs, if the name of a lecturer or performer is not yet known, or org. charts, if a post is not yet filled.|
|Greece||Τάδε (Táde), Δείνα (Deína), Άγνωστος (Ágnōstos, unknown); Táde and Deína can roughly be translated as "this one" or "that one"|
|Guatemala||Juan Perez, Fulano(a) de Tal, Sutano, Mengano, Perencejo|
|Hong Kong and Macau||陳大文 (Chan Tai Man) (male), 王小明 (Wong Siu Ming) (boy)are frequently found on samples or specimens of addresses, passports, ID or credit cards. Mr. X, Ms. Y or Mrs. Z are generic names for anonymous victims or offenders in the law context.|
|Hungary||Gipsz Jakab (Jacob Gypsum), Teszt Elek (I'm Testing - Elek is an old Hungarian first name), Hát/Háth Izsák (a pun on "hátizsák", meaning "backpack"), Jóska Pista, Kovács 123. János (Kovács János = John Smith, a very common name), Pityi Palkó, Ribizli Gizi (Giselle Currant), Kerti Virág (Blossom Garden), XY|
|Iceland||Meðal-Jón, Meðal-Jóna, Jón Jónsson, Jóna Jónsdóttir|
|India||Anna (Used in judicial purposes as well for portion of male, female and child alike) नामालुम (in Devanagari). Translates directly into "unknown".|
|Indonesia||Si Anu, Si Polan, Si Fulan, Mr. X (for man corpse), Bunga (for victim of sexual harassment), Hamba Allah (for Muslims); (using letters) Si A (literally: "a certain A"), Si B ("a certain B"), Si C ("a certain C"), ...|
|Iran||Folani (Persian : فُلانی), Felani (Persian : فلانی), Yaroo (Persian : ِیارو)|
|Ireland||Seán and Síle Citizen; John Murphy; Joe Bloggs; Irish: Seán Ó Rudaí, from rud = thing; Tadhg ar an mbus, Tadhg ar an bhus (Tadhg [Timothy] on the bus); Tadhg an Mhargaidh; A N Other.|
|Israel||פלוני (Ploni), אלמוני (Almoni) or פלוני אלמוני (Ploni Almoni). Ploni Almoni appears in Ruth 4:1. ישראל ישראלי (Israel Israeli) is a common placeholder name, while משה כהן (Moshe Cohen) is a common name. Also, the placeholder tandem of Reuven (ראובן) and Shimon (שמעון) are used, generally as opposing litigants (e.g., Reuven's ox gored Shimon's ox).|
|Italy||Mario Rossi, Pinco Pallino, Tal dei Tali, Tizio, Caio, Sempronio, or N.N from Latin Nomen Nescio.|
|Japan||山田太郎 (Yamada Tarō, a common male name), 山田花子 (Yamada Hanako, a common female name), 名無しの権兵衛 (Nanashi-no-Gonbei, 名無しの means nameless, and 権兵衛 is a rather old-fashioned male name), 何野某 (Nanino Nanigashi, old-fashioned)|
|Kenya||Wanjiku (always female)|
|Korea||갑 (甲, Gap), 을 (乙, Eul), 홍길동 (洪吉童, Hong Gil-dong; male), 심청 (沈淸, Shim Cheong; female), 철수 (Cheol-su, male), 영희 (Yeong-hui; female), (last name:) 모모씨(양) (mo-mo ssi [male], mo-mo yang [female])|
|Lithuania||Vardenis Pavardenis, Jonas Jonaitis, Petras Petraitis|
|Macedonia||Петар Петровски (Petar Petrovski)|
|Mauritius||Sa Nation la, Sa boug la , Missié Pa koné (for male) ; Sa fame la , Madam ou mamzelle Pa koné (for female), Soz (both male and female)|
|Mexico||N.N. (short for Latin nomen nescio, Juan/Juanito/Juanita Pérez, Fulano de Tal, Mengano, Perengano, Zutano, Sultano, Pancho del Rancho, Juan De Los Palotes, and Juan Camaney|
|Netherlands||Jan Jansen. Jan Modaal is used in a similar way to the English the Joneses, in particular referring to average wealth. Jan-Piet-Klaas used as one word with the meaning of Tom, Dick and Harry. Jan met de korte achternaam, "Jan with the short sur-name" is also used for jan modaal. In a police or legal context, an unknown person is indicated as "NN" for nomen nescio (Latin for "I don't know the name") Source (Dutch language). Ian Van Dahl is the Dutch equivalent of the UK's Joe Bloggs.|
|Nepal||Ram, Shyam, Hari, and other slangs such as Chamar, Ram Kumar Deshar, Sigdel, and Jyapu.|
|New Zealand||Joe Bloggs, John Doe, John Smith, Uncle Tom Cobley and all, Joe Blow, Fred, any old Tom Dick and Harry, Fred Nurks.|
|Nicaragua||Fulano (probably from Arabic, Fulan) or Fulano de Tal, Sutano, Mengano, Perencejo|
|Nigeria||Lagbaja, Tamedu (Yoruba)|
|Norway||N.N, Ola Nordmann, Kari Nordmann, Peder Ås, Navn Navnesen |
|Pakistan||Falana (Male), Falani (Female). This is derived from the Arabic equivalent. Also, Naamalum; though this is used more as in "unidentified". Also La Patta.|
|Panama||Fulano de Tal, Sultano, Mengano|
|Paraguay||Fulano de Tal, Sultano, Mengano, N.N.|
|Peru||N.N. , Juan Perez, Juan Quispe, Fulano de Tal, Mengano, Zutano, Perengano, Perencejo|
|Philippines||Juan dela Cruz, Juanita dela Cruz|
|Poland||N.N. ("unknown"--used to refer to e.g. unknown soldiers at war); Jan Kowalski, Jan Nowak (used in the meaning of "everyman", an average citizen)|
|Portugal||Fulano, Sicrano, Beltrano, Zé Povinho (the anonymous people), Zé Ninguém (unknown and unimportant one), Soldado Desconhecido (unknown soldier), o Manuel e a Maria (for man and wife).|
|Puerto Rico||Fulano de Tal, Mengano, or Juan del Pueblo|
|Romania||Ion Popescu, Ixulescu/X-ulescu, Cutare, Cutăriţă, Cutărescu|
|Russia||Иванов Иван Иванович (Ivanov Ivan Ivanovich), Петров и Сидоров (Petrov and Sidorov), Вася Пупкин (Vasya Pupkin), Марьиванна (Marivanna = Maria Ivanovna), имярек (old slavonic abbreviation of имя рекомое, that is "name to be spoken". Still usable; not a name, but a reference to a person, usually in context of filling in a form), when patronymic name is not known it is substituted by Батькович (Bat'kovich), referring to legal entities - ООО "Ромашка" (OOO "Romashka" - "Сamomile Limited liability company"), ООО "Рога и копыта" (OOO "Roga i Kopyta" - Horns & Hoofs LLC, see The Little Golden Calf)|
|Scotland||Jock Tamson, most often found now in the stock phrase 'Jock Tamson's bairns', meaning the human race: We're aa Jock Tamson's bairns we're all one common humanity. Ony Jock or Jenny: any person, male or female.|
|Serbia||In legal documents, police and court, NN lice (NN person) is used. Everyday equivalents are: Petar Petrović, Pera Perić, Marko Marković, Janko Janković.|
|Singapore||In humour, everyday equivalents are either: Tan Ah Kow and Tan Ah Beng.|
|Slovakia||Ján Novák, (humorously) Jožko Mrkvička|
|Slovenia||Janez Novak (a very common name, equivalent to John Smith), Janez Vzorec ('John Sample', perhaps based on German Muster), Janez Primer ('John Example')|
|South Africa||Koos van der Merwe, Piet Pompies, Jan Rap|
|Spain||Fulano, Mengano, Zutano, Sultano, Perengano (in that order), female versions end -a instead of -o, diminutives end -ito, -ita, surname for the first person is "de Tal", "de Cual" is used as surname for a second person; Pepe Pérez, Perico Palotes, Don Nadie, Juan Nadie, Juan Español.|
|Sweden||(Herr/Fru) Svensson, Medelsvensson for the average Swede; Kalle, Olle, Pelle, Nisse and Lisa are pretty common when a name is needed as an example. "Name Name" (Swedish: Namn Namn or NN from Latin Nomen Nescio) is used as a placeholder.|
|Switzerland||Herr und Frau Schweizer, Hans Meier, Hans Mustermann. In Italian-speaking Switzerland : Marco Rossi, Marco Bernasconi.|
|Taiwan||志明 (chi-Ming, common male name), 春嬌 (Chun-Jaou, common female name). 王小明, 王小華, 阿榮, 阿財, 某某(人), 小強 ,某甲 ,某乙, 路人甲, 路人乙, 張三, 李四, etc.|
|Thailand||นาย ก. (Nai Gor, literally Mr. Gor), นาง ก. (Nang Gor, literally Mrs. Gor). Note that ก. (Gor) is the first letter in Thai alphabet. Other people in the story are named after subsequent letters: ข (Kor, with rising tone) ค (Kor, with middle tone), etc.|
|Turkey||"Sarı Çizmeli Mehmet Ağa" ("Mehmet Agha in Yellow Boots"), "Bilmem-kim" ("I-don't-know-who-it-is") "Filanca" "Falanca" "Ali" and "Veli" |
|United Kingdom||Joe/Fred Bloggs, Joe Public, John Smith, A. N. Other, R. Punter, "Tom, Dick, and Harry", Ronnie (or Ronny) Arbuckle, the man on the Clapham omnibus.|
|Uruguay||Fulano, Mengano; Sultano|
|United States||Joe Blow, John Doe, Jane Doe, John Q. Public, Joe Schmoe, Joe Sixpack, John Smith, Eddie Punchclock (for blue-collar workers), Joe Benotz, Joe Botts (particularly in New York City), J. S. Ragman (U. S. Navy), Vinnie Goombatz (particularly in New York City), Joe Random, Mr. Cardholder, I. M. Marine (U.S. Marine Corps)|
|Venezuela||Fulano, Fulano de Tal, Zutano, Mengano, Perencejo, Pedro Perez, Juan de los Palotes, Juan Bimba|
|Vietnam||Người giấu tên, Nguyễn Văn A (male), Trần Thị B (female)|
|Yiddish||Yankel Tuches, Moyshe Pupik, Moyshe Kepoyel ("Moshe the laborer")|
John Doe may be dead but...
...Does anyone know what he would be called in the UK? News reports indicate names are chosen according to the circumstances - "Mystery of Mr Seagull highlights tragedy of hundreds of bodies still unidentified" (Guardian). Whatever police/hospital terms are used they seem to make no impression on popular culture. Hakluyt bean (talk) 03:36, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
For origin of John Doe, there's only one questionable source...
What's In A Name. Merriam-Webster. 1996. ISBN 978-0877796138. I'm trying to research the definitive answer to this question of "when was John Doe first used (in law)" and all online sources seem to point back to this "What's in a Name" book, and I am suspicious. The cover makes it look like a 90's "children's fun facts" type title. The sources online that quote it give some variation of
"John Doe" dates from the reign of England's King Edward III (1312-1377). A famous legal document from this period labels a hypothetical landowner "John Doe," who leases land to a "Richard Roe..."
This famous legal document, I think, is the "action of ejectment" which used John Doe and Richard Roe as a ficticious plaintiff-defendant pair. But I don't know where What's in a Name gets the 1300's date. In the legal databases, which I have admittedly only scratched the surface of, I can't find references to anything earlier than the 1600's. Anyone have any ideas? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 20:46, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Add "Jane Doe" and "Jane Roe" to introduction ?
Since there is no separate wikipedia article for "Jane Doe" or "Jane Roe" and since the "Jane Doe" disambiguation page now references this "John Doe" article (and Jane Roe redirects to the Norma McCorvey article which includes a hatnote link back to "John Doe"), it seems helpful / appropriate (to me anyway) to add mention of "Jane Doe" (and "Jane Roe"?) as the female analogs of "John Doe" to the introduction of this "John Doe" article. Alternatively, a separate wikipedia article for "Jane Doe" and/or "Jane Roe" could be created. Currently, combining the two concepts in this one article seems "reasonable" to me - although if the history and usage of "Jane Doe"/"Jane Roe" is actually much different from that of "John Doe" then perhaps a separate article(s) would be more appropriate??? I'm afraid I am not knowledgeable enough to make that assertion but I hope others with more subject-matter expertise can comment / make suggestions (or just "be bold" and create a new "Jane Doe/Roe" article - or not - as appropriate). Pugetbill (talk) 00:19, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
The Serbian version for John Doe is "NN Lice" (UU Person). The two N stands for Nepoznato (Nepoznato = Unknown) (Ime: Nepoznato, Prezime: Nepoznato (Name: Unknown, Surname: Unknown)). Should we add it? KeurBro (talk) 16:23, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
Roe VS Doe
I am not sure Roe should be on this page. Jane and John Doe are used for unidentifiable female and male bodies. I believe Norma McCorvey used Jane Roe as a pun on Jane Doe, since roe is defined as "The mass of eggs contained in the ovaries of a female fish or shellfish, typically including the ovaries themselves...". I realize it can also refer to a deer, but I have never heard the term Jane Roe aside from its use in the Roe V. Wade case. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 14:44, 2 March 2013 (UTC)