Talk:John Harvey Kellogg

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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 01:20, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Legacy/Retrospective views

I should preface by saying I definitely lack the expertise to contribute here, however it seems a glaring omission that there is no section dedicated to his legacy and to later and modern day views on him. Regardless of ones specific opinion of him, he's clearly a significant historic figure. So why does the commentary suddenly end with his death? It would be fascinating to be able to read about which of his inventions and methods persisted and which were abandoned. Which were proven scientific and which were proven to be snake oil. And other lasting commentaries on his legacy (i.e. high rates of circumcision in the USA still today). 176.251.175.52 (talk) 16:53, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

And other lasting commentaries on his legacy (i.e. high rates of circumcision in the USA still today).

I encourage you to read Plain facts for old and young and think about what he's saying about circumcision. ReadsWikiOrgForFun (talk) 15:57, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Reference 4 is to an article about fight club

I was looking to see the evidence about corn flakes being an anaphrodesiac because I heard that it’s an unsubstantiated rumour. On this article, there seems to be a source for it but it makes no sense: the linked fight club reference is nothing to do with Kellogg, corn flakes or anaphrodesiacs Whereismytardis (talk) 06:57, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Reason for Will Kellogg's fame

    This article says John's brother Will Kellogg is best known for inventing corn flakes. It should say that he is best known for developing the Kellogg's Cereal Company. Rollo August (talk) 10:49, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Proof that he circumcised himself at 37? Can't find it in reference?

He circumcised himself at age 37. His methods for the "rehabilitation" of masturbation addicts included measures up to the point of cutting off part of the genitals, without anesthetic, on both sexes; he wrote men who did should be circumcised and women that did should have carbolic acid applied to their clitoral glans.[46]

It seems that Plain facts for old and young, published in 1879, was published originally in 1877 as Plain facts about sexual life.

Plain facts for old and young 1879 edition on Project Gutenberg.

Reference 46 gives an 1888 publishing date with Ayer Publishing as the for Plain facts for old and young. He was born in 1852.

1888 - 1852 = 36

Edit from April 3, 2019. Mobile device. Stayed up for almost four years.

Is this just made up? ReadsWikiOrgForFun (talk) 14:54, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

I have removed it. Anyone who can provide a source to validate it can feel free to add it back.

After reading Plain facts for old and young, it seems like there probably should be some other changes too.

Another trap set is called an "Anatomical Museum." The anatomical part of the exhibition consists chiefly of models and figures calculated to excite the passions to the highest pitch. At stated intervals the proprietor, who is always a "doctor," and by preference a German, delivers lectures on the effects of masturbation, in which he resorts to every device to excite the fears and exaggerate the symptoms of his hearers, who are mostly young men and boys. Thus he prepares his victim, and when he once gets him within his clutches, he does not let him go until he has robbed him of his last dollar.

This text—delivers lectures on the effects of masturbation, in which he resorts to every device to excite the fears and exaggerate the symptoms of his hearers—in Plain facts for old and young puts the whole section on Masturbation Prevention into question. ReadsWikiOrgForFun (talk) 15:08, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

I removed it, @ReadsWikiOrgForFun:. The entire section is problematic, appears to be WP: OR, repeated elsewhere, or completely inaccurate.KlayCax (talk) 19:31, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Opposed circumcision?

The citation for this seems to cite the Project Gutenberg Plain Facts for Old and Young (1881 edition), but the quote given in the citation doesn't seem to actually exist beyond the first sentence, is the quote fabricated or is the continuation actually derived from another source? ペゴボド同士 (Pegboard) (talk) 05:44, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Kellogg advocated circumcision. The source is named and provided. It's from his book. The source is cited three times there, with different page numbers. Take a look and see if that answers your question. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 06:02, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

I'm specifically talking about the section that claims it to be a misconception. ペゴボド同士 (Pegboard) (talk) 13:22, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

The Misconception section was misleading and contradicted sources that, earlier in the article, establish Kellogg was a proponent of a plain diet as an antimasturbatory measure, as well as using circumcision and application of acid to the clitoris as deterrents for masturbation in male and female children. I have removed that section as it was misleading and inaccurate. Yortman1 (talk) 02:03, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Misconceptions Section needs update or removal?

The current writing in this section, and choice of quotation from "Plain Facts for Old and Young", could lead readers to a misleading conclusion about Kellogg's stance on both Corn flakes and Circumcision.

First, on Corn Flakes.

The current section reads: "Several popular misconceptions falsely attribute various cultural practices, inventions, and historical events to Kellogg. These include false claims that Kellogg's corn flakes were invented or marketed to prevent masturbation. In reality, they were promoted to prevent indigestion."

However, From "Abnormal Psychology 2nd Edition" (Already cited earlier in the article):

"It is a little-known fact that J. H. Kellogg invented his breakfast cereals as part of his mission to discourage sexuality in young people; he hoped that feeding them bland food in the morning would decrease their excitability."

And a primary source, From ""Plain Facts for Old and Young" (pg 302 from the copy available through National Library of Medicine) In the section relating to cures for masturbation("Unchastity"):

"Discard all stimulating food. Under this head must be included spices, pepper, ginger, mustard, cinnamon, cloves, essences, all condiments, pickles, etc.,"

Second, on Circumcision:

The current section and quotation simply mention that he doubted whether it was "salutary for all men." While this is true, it could leave the reader with the false impression that Kellogg was against the practice, when in his writing he has promoted circumcision of "small boys" as an intentionally painful deterrent for masturbation.

From ""Plain Facts for Old and Young": Regarding cures for "Self-abuse" (pg 295):

"A remedy which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision, especially when there is any degree of phimosis. The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anæsthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases. The soreness which continues for several weeks interrupts the practice, and if it had not previously become too firmly fixed, it may be forgotten and not resumed."

He also writes on pg. 298: "In Females, the author has found the application of pure carbolic acid to the clitoris an excellent means of allaying the abnormal excitement, and preventing the recurrence of the practice..."

@Catfurball Perhaps, we could retain an improved section on misconceptions, but add a section for "Views on Masturbation"? As He has written quite extensively about the topic. Yortman1 (talk) 07:52, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

• @Yortman1: you have my permission to improve this section. Catfurball (talk) 18:54, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
  • I second that emotion. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 19:05, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

    Also on pp.194–195 of Plain facts for old and young he writes:

    "In males, one of the most general physical causes of sexual excitement is constipation. The vesicula seminalis, in which the seminal fluid is stored, is situated, as will be remembered, at the base of the bladder. It thus has the bladder in front and the rectum behind. In constipation, the rectum becomes distended with feces -- effete matter which should have been promptly evacuated, instead of being allowed to accumulate. This hardened mass presses upon the parts most intimately concerned in the sexual act, causing excessive local excitement. When this condition is chronic, as in habitual constipation, the unnatural excitement often leads to most serious results. One of these is the production of a horrible disease, satyriasis, the nature of which has been previously indicated.

    Constipation in females has the same tendency, though the dangers are not quite so great. The irritation is sufficient, however, to lead to excitement of the passions."

    His work to develop diets to avert constipation should be viewed in light of this. The "Misconceptions" section sounds in its tone like some kind of apologist propaganda, and needs rewriting. — OttoMäkelä (talk) 22:14, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Problem Source

I just removed the claim that Kellogg opposed circumcision. The quoted wording does not appear in the source. The citation contains a screenshot again including the wording that does not appear in the source. I thus suspect it was deliberately fabricated. I have screenshots and this can be verified by searching the source which is in the public domain. Robert Brockway (talk) 08:40, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Please disregard. I've found a second source and there seems to be something wrong with the Project Gutenberg copy. An entire paragraph is missing. Robert Brockway (talk) 09:13, 1 April 2024 (UTC)