Talk:John Smith (Ohio Senator)

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Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus, so moved by default to John Smith (Ohio Senator). There is no consensus here for any title, so the result defaults to the status quo ante, which is John Smith (Ohio Senator). That was the stable title until a WP:BOLD move on Jan 9 was reverted and then reinstated. (Per WP:BRD, after the first move was reverted, it should not have been moved again without prior discussion).
In this discussion, several editors expressed concern about the ambiguity of "Ohio Senator" (John Quincy Smith was an Ohio state Senator), while others asserted that "Ohio Senator" will conventionally be read as meaning a federal senator. It might be helpful to have a central discussion somewhere to clarify that point. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:49, 16 February 2014 (UTC)



John Smith (United States Senator from Ohio)John Smith (Ohio politician, born 1735) – This is a more typical way of disambiguating a title, per WP:NCP. The more concise John Smith (Ohio politician) is ambiguous with John Quincy Smith. Relisted. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:44, 5 February 2014 (UTC) BDD (talk) 00:42, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

  • John Smith (Ohio Senator) – move it back to the longstanding stable title. One should always assume that a [state name] Senator is a federal senator, unless qualified as [state name] State Senator. However, Ohio State Senate is unnecessary because there is no Ohio Federal Senate. Wbm1058 (talk) 03:09, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Hmmm. – I see there has also been recent move activity at John Smith (New York politician born 1752). For those who think that the original title was too ambiguous, then John Smith (Senator for Ohio) works for me too. (United States) is unnecessary as it is common knowledge that Ohio is one of the 50 states. Wbm1058 (talk) 03:34, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
  • George Bush (Texas politician, born 1946). See how silly—or disrespectful—that sounds? In general, I think a US Senator would be primary topic over another politician who never held a federal- or statewide-level office. Wbm1058 (talk) 03:57, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose It is not known that he was born in 1735: his birth date is unknown. The disambiguator can probably be shortened to "Senator from/for Ohio" without adding ambiguity. DrKiernan (talk) 11:39, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
    • I prefer "for" because it clearly implies that the Senator represents the state in the US Senate. One could have used Barack Obama (Senator from Hawaii) to disambiguate his from his father, and be half right.
Standard usage among American political scientists never considers "from" to designate the birthplace of a person, only the locality he represents. I'm not sure why this is; from the founding of the Republic, people have represented constituencies far removed from their birthplace, so perhaps that's the reason. Xoloz (talk) 17:32, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
One shouldn't abbreviate Democratic-Republican with a simple "D", as that is an abbreviation for the modern Democratic Party (United States), the descendant of the Democratic-Republican Party after the era of Andrew Jackson. The two parties, Democratic-Republican and Democratic, have different WP articles for very good reasons. In textbooks, the abbreviation "D-R" is occasionally used, though I would dispense with the abbreviation altogether as anachronistic for the earlier era. Xoloz (talk) 17:25, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose The suggested title is not substantially clearer. I would support reversion to the title from which this article was recently moved. Xoloz (talk) 17:32, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.