Talk:John Tavener

A news item involving John Tavener was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 14 November 2013.

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Tudor?[edit]

Am I right in thinking JT is a direct descendant of the Tudor JT? If so the article should say so. Ben Finn 20:43, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The only times I've ever heard it discussed, it was stated that the 2 are not related. --Centauri 22:34, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Way back, in our early teens at Highgate School, Tavener told me he was descended from the Tudor JT, adding that the latter's name had an extra "r" in it (I then proceed to look Taverner up in The Oxford Companion to Music and suggested he should be ashamed of an ancestor that had gone pillaging monasteries - I wouldn't suggest any such thing now!). John of Wood Green (talk) 23:41, 26 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There is now at least 1 reference for this (and there are other articles that mention him stating this) but the WP article states he "claimed" to be descended from the Tudor JT. Shouldn't a more neutral wording be to say that "he stated during his life that was a direct descendant of..." rather than "claim" ? Using the word "claim" makes it sound as if his statement of his belief or personal knowledge may have been proven wrong somewhere. If his repeated and documented statement has been challenged and proven to be incorrect, that fact should be noted. Given that he has so recently passed away and that he was knighted, I feel the most NPOV wording might be what I suggested above or something similar. All that wording is asserting as fact, is that modern JT states that he was a direct descendant of Tudor JT; it doesn't suggest that it is a proven fact. it's simply a kinder and more accurate way to give the information. He didn't "claim" this. Rather, he made statements he either assumed to be true or knew were true. We try to save words like "claim" and "purportedly" for obviously suspect assertions of fact. it's just a suggestion. Please discuss or think about it and make the change if you feel it is correct. I will leave article as is since his genealogy isn't something I know much about. LiPollis (talk) 08:03, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Orthodox church[edit]

A friend told me that it is not true that John Tavener has left the Orthodox church. Are you sure he has? What is the source? --12.75.232.116 20:26, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have the same question. As far as I know he is still Orthodox, and I couldn't find anything useful by Googling. The most recent New Grove article says nothing about him leaving the church. Could someone please provide a source for this statement? Antandrus (talk) 22:18, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I found a few articles and websites that comment on the matter.

Tavener's comment on his 2003 Ikon of Eros suggests a positive attitude toward Islam: "Islam says God is beautiful and he loves beauty…and the only reason to write music at all is to reach that beauty…which is unreachable by the way."
His Lament for Jerusalem combines Jewish, Christian, and Islamic texts, suggesting his attitude has been not so much a "break" as an "opening."
2004 article on rift with Orthodox spiritual adviser, here or here. Quotes from Tavener:
- "I love the Koran and I wanted to write something that was an affirmation of Islam rather than these terrible negations that one sees everywhere."
- "I like going to church less and less. It strikes me now that all religions are as senile as one another. But I do pray within my heart all the time."
2005 project using Islamic material
Account of a June 2006 performance of The Veil of the Temple

I'm a newcomer to Tavener's music, so am hesitant to weigh in on this issue (yet). But I'll close with this link to Tavener's program note to The Hidden Face, which perhaps says as much as all the links above about his stance toward Orthodoxy, Islam, and God. -- Rob C (Alarob) 04:06, 4 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

British or English?[edit]

The introductory paragraph has been amended to state that John Tavener is a "British composer", not an "English composer". I'm just curious as to what was wrong with "English composer". The editor said that this was "as per Michael Nyman", but I don't understand what is meant by this. Cheers, Jacklee 02:41, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Having thought about the matter, I agree that it's better to indicate that Tavener is a "British" rather than an "English" composer, since he has British nationality. Cheers, Jacklee 16:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Work list[edit]

Any chance of a more comprehensive list of works? Chubbles 01:31, 6 August 2007 (UTC) Go to www.chesternovello.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.117.23.221 (talk) 15:38, 24 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have a bio that I could source a list to. The article is surprisingly lacking, in general. Ceoil 01:34, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I just ran across this Columbia Encyclopedia article [1] whilst looking for something else. Perhaps it would be of interest to this article. I noticed, for instance that it mentions several major works that the article has not included. Hope this helps! Godofbiscuits (talk) 14:17, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why doesn't Thunder Entered Into Her rate a mention? http://www.allmusic.com/composition/thunder-entered-her-for-chorus-organ-mens-chorus-handbells-mc0002418274 David Hill's performance and recording of this with Winchester Cathedral Choir was amazing and surely it has to be one of Tavener's most moving works? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.195.4.76 (talk) 16:31, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Do add something about it if you wish. Alfietucker (talk) 17:37, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hasn't worked since 2007[edit]

Towards Silence was recently premiered, so he is still working. 212.84.96.11 (talk) 19:14, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You're mistaken. The premiere was delayed as Paul Robertson was also seriously ill. See [2]--Peter cohen (talk) 19:29, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Improving the article[edit]

Would it be advantageous to split out of the biography the detailed discussion of his musical style and its evolution? I'd love to add some comments from obituaries but there's no framework to hang them on. Also, I think we should remove the unreferenced Career highlights section, integrating premieres that are not otherwise mentioned into the main Biography section. Espresso Addict (talk) 01:49, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Good suggestions. I've separated out paragraphs into a new "Music" subsection - hope that helps. Unfortunately RL commitments mean I haven't time to integrate the "Career highlights" section into the main article, or to continue citation hunting for now. Please feel free to continue. Alfietucker (talk) 11:00, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As I read the Project_composers page, there isn't supposed to be an info box until there's consensus on the talk page. Anyone object to adding an info box? Ndovu (talk) 17:46, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Veil of the Temple[edit]

I created an article for this piece, as it's John Tavener's single biggest work. Any contributions would be welcome Tompw (talk) 22:36, 13 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]