Talk:Josh Mandel

Political Advertisement

This page looks like a paid political advertisement. I think it is word for word for his fundraising homepage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.177.207.70 (talk) 05:39, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

It is seriously lacking citations. The article reads like it was written by a staffer, friend, relative, or Mr. Mandel himself. I have added a tags for references, and for the article to be written in an encyclopedic tone. I have also toned down, some, but not all of the purple prose.THD3 (talk) 17:42, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Someone from Josh Mandel's campaign repeatedly combs through this page and deletes anything factually negative about Mandel. This campaign is using wikipedia as its personal propaganda page.

How many warnings can we stick on this page regarding its neutrality? There need to be as many weasel-wording alerts as possible here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.118.142.229 (talk) 15:48, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

This is self-interested puffery. It should be removed. Donnezmoi

This fellow Mandel should not be described as "far Right" when leftists are almost never described as "far Left" on WIkipedia. To retain any credibility, Wikipedia must at least try to appear neutral. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.49.27.38 (talk) 20:19, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

I absolutely agree. The Wikipedia “truth” gatekeepers needs to correct this. The citations are of opinion. Far right is generic and meaningless especially when used as an insult by the other party. 24.140.48.8 (talk) 06:01, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

Completely agree. "Far right" is political smear. The neutral term "conservative" might be more appropriate. Even better would be if Wikipedia omitted labels altogether and simply let the person's life history and biography speak for itself. 24.170.205.55 (talk) 22:30, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

100% agree-- I was going to edit that out but the gatekeepers have locked the page.

The term "far-right" has no literal definition and is being used as a pejorative and smear. Wiki should be better than that-- especially if they are claiming to be neutral. Amicusets (talk) 11:01, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Amicusets Wikipedia does not claim to be neutral(it is written with a neutral point of view, which is different). Wikipedia summarizes what independent reliable sources say; any bias in sources will be reflected in Wikipedia. The sources are presented to readers so they can verify what they say and judge them for themselves as to bias. If you disagree with the use of the term far right by reliable sources, you will need to take that up with them. We just summarize. If you just want to read what you want to hear, this isn't the place for you. 331dot (talk) 12:52, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

I've noticed that "flaming" liberals are described on Wikipedia as "activists". They don't even use the words left, liberal or progressive... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gjxj (talk • contribs)

• See WP:TRUTH. We don't deal in truth, since truth is in the eye of the beholder. We deal in what can be verified. Wikipedia summarizes what independent reliable sources say about a topic. If you just want to push conservative talking points and read what you want to hear because it fits your worldview, this isn't the place for you. If you want to collaborate and achieve a consensus as to what an article should say, please do. This article describes Mr. Mandel as far right because independent reliable sources do. If the preponderance of sources describe him differently, please demonstrate that. The other option is for Mr. Mandel to adopt views and policies to get sources to describe him differently. If you have such sources that describe Bernie Sanders or AOC as far left, please offer them on their respective talk pages. 331dot (talk) 23:18, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

Divestment from Iran

This seems dubious. First, American investments in Iran have been illegal since 1979. Second, this is controlled from a Federal, not a State level. Third, I can find no record than Mandel's bill actually passed.THD3 (talk) 18:03, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

You are correct that American investments in Iran have been illegal, but companies based in other countries don't necessarily have to adhere to that restriction, and the state treasury can still invest in overseas companies even if they've invested in Iran or other countries. The countries mentioned in the entry are not American companies, and thus are not subject to the US ban on investment in Iran. Defiance19 (talk) 17:56, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Stubbing

Unless there's a very good reason not to, I plan to reduce this article to a stub so it can be rewritten. In current form, it's a puff piece verging on a campaign ad. --SSBohio 23:05, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

It appears that someone spent their Thanksgiving holidays creating a new account Single-purpose_account and adding nasty and poorly referenced material to this and several other Ohio politician pages. I would second SSB motion to reduce this article to a stub and allow it to be rewritten by grownups.~~sandflea (talk) 21:07, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

I disagree. If the recent edits do not have solid sources, they can be reverted. SSB's suggestion to reduce the article to a stub was because the entire article appeared to have been written by someone with an interest in promoting Mr. Mandel. The article now has a better balance of material, although it remains far from perfect. Just because the article has unflattering information on the subject does not justify its reduction to a stub. Wikipeda is not censored.THD3 (talk) 21:23, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Who is talking about censoring Wikipedia? My suggestion is that the article should be started from scratch because now you have a puff piece mashed together with a hit piece. The article looks like it has been hacked together and the cited articles in some instances don't agree with the text they are associated with. I doubt anything added to this article has been added by an unbiased contributor. In this situation, I believe that it would be easier to start from the beginning rather than from biased material.~~sandflea (talk) 21:40, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

I disagree completely with THD3. It's not balanced at all, in fact, virtually everything on Mr. Mandel's issue positions and career beyond Lyndhurst City Councilman is essentially a hit piece, highlighting every possible negative in his record. In fact, it's not even a well sourced hit piece. The entire section on gay rights mentions the Ohio Democratic Party's disapproval, but the source for this is a letter to the editor. Nothing linked to the legislation (for anyone to do their own research and draw their own conclusions on), nothing linked to any statement from ODP or the other organization, just a letter to the editor from an angry constituent. I'm with SSB and Sandflea, stub this thing, start over from scratch. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Defiance19 (talk • contribs) 21:02, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Copy-paste

The vast majority of this article appears to be a copy-paste from Mandel's bio on the Ohio House of Representatives website. Brian Powell (talk) 22:36, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Date of Birth/Age??

One basic piece of information missing from this page is Mandel's date of birth, or even his age. I sincerely hope that his campaign is not withholding this information on purpose. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.29.153.73 (talk) 23:44, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I added his date of birth september 27 1977, however i have no actual source from this. His birthday is listed on his facebook page and the year is from an article that lists him as 32 years old in august (thus making him now 33) Tjm58 (talk) 16:24, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Made up "fact"

This page has been carefully guarded and used as political propaganda for well over a year. The latest made up "fact" is the claim that Mandel defeated incumbent Kevin Boyce's bid for "reelection" in November. Since Kevin Boyce was not elected Treasurer in 2006--Richard Cordray was--and Boyce only became Treasurer upon appointment by Gov. Ted Strickland in 2009, after Cordray was elected and inaugurated as Attorney General, it is quite impossible that Boyce sought REelection. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.56.35.193 (talk) 01:29, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

That is actually a contentious argument in political science circles, however many would agree "REELECTION" would be the appropriate term as the person would be elected to the office they already hold, Merriam-Webster's dictionary defines reelection as the process of electing someone for an additional term in office, so under that definition it would be a reelection. --Tjm58 (talk) 02:43, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Does the definition of "far-right" mean he's Jewish therefore he's FAR-RIGHT? Or is the definition of far-right simply to mean anyone that doesn't share liberal viewpoints? Is everyone that has has liberal viewpoints on the "far-left" ? Bill1USMC (talk) 15:04, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:21, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

---

Josh Mandel (politician) → Josh Mandel – Relisted. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:52, 1 August 2011 (UTC) Primary topic. Game designer: 168, Politician: 3593. Relisted. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 22:33, 25 July 2011 (UTC) Marcus Qwertyus 00:29, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

• Not enough. Of course more people will be looking up politicians as they announce runs for federal office. We are not a newspaper. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 01:56, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
• Support. Agree with PMAnderson that the page views could have been influenced by recentism. However, a google news archive search shows that the politician has been receiving media coverage since the mid-2000s, whereas it is difficult to find a mention of the game designer at all. I think that even before his recent campaign, the politician was the primary topic. Also, please note that if this RM is successful, then the dab page can be deleted and a hatnote added to the politician's article (per WP:TWODABS). Jenks24 (talk) 02:47, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
• Support per WP:Primary topic. - Darwinek (talk) 15:45, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Josh Mandel Portrait.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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NPOV Check

It's been noted above that in the past it seems portions of this page become very similar to that of a paid political advertisement. A quick look makes me see some portions that violate NPOV rules. Some specifics: Under the 'energy' header: 'Mandel favors responsible energy exploration that protects "the air we breathe and water we drink" while reducing environmental regulation.' Under the 'state treasurer' header: 'During Mandel's time as treasurer, Ohio has earned the highest possible rating from Standard & Poor’s for the state's $4 billion government investment fund, and the highest possible rating from Fitch for the state’s short-term General Obligation bonds.[28] On March 19, 2012, Mandel severed contracts with two major banks that handled $41 billion in Ohio pension investments, amid government investigations into whether the banks overcharged clients for currency trading accusing them of “systematically exploiting public pension funds and taxpayers.”[29]' Bnszero (talk) 01:16, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Politifact

Please take a look at the article for Politifact and then do a Google search on them. Politifact has a deep-and-wide reputation for sloppy work and left-wing bias. It is most definitely not a reliable source for anything except its own opinions. We can still use Politifact as a source given that what they say is often quite notable and topical, but we should not be presenting their opinions as facts. Organthief1949 (talk) 11:32, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Politifact is a project of the Tampa Bay Times and should be treated like work from any other major newspaper. Arbor8 (talk) 16:10, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Also, we're not "presenting their opinions as facts". We're presenting them as opinions attributed to Politifact. MastCell ^Talk 18:28, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

"Wearing out shoes" anecdote source

The statement about Mandel "knocking on 19,679 doors and wearing out three pairs of shoes" piqued my interest for 2 reasons: it was tagged as not included in the source that had been cited for it, and it's exactly the sort of catchy line that often gets copied without proper sourcing. Not surprisingly in this election season, I found a number of news sites (as well as political-talk sites) quoting it without any attribution or even marking it as a quote, including the oldest reference I found (2008, from KTRH News Radio) in my quick search of books and news sites. I strongly suspect that KTRH merely incorporated it in their posted "tweet" after getting from elsewhere – it seems unlikely that they'd be the originator rather than the subject himself – so I cited a Mandel campaign website first. (The KTRH page at least gives us an earlier date than recent news write-ups.) It'd be nice if we could track down an actual original source (even better if it's Wikipedia-reliable), but that at least gives us a start on its origin. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 21:37, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Cronyism

Is there any truth to the claims of cronyism being made by his political opponents (e.g., appointment of close friends having no financial experience to key positions overseeing finance)? If so, are these notable enough to be listed in a controversies section? TricksterWolf (talk) 11:27, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

External links modified

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Semi-protected edit request on 22 August 2021

It’s right 2600:1700:C84:D40:C0CB:8B16:E4:A28B (talk) 03:29, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 07:04, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 August 2021

Josh Mandel has 3 children, not 13. His headline says 13. The article and sources are 3. 24.140.133.149 (talk) 20:48, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

 Done Looks like it was part of a number of vandalizing edits and was missed in the revert, have fixed it Cannolis (talk) 20:55, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• OH- Sherrod Brown v. Josh Mandel on retirement security (cropped).jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:23, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 November 2021

Change This :

In late September 2021 Mandel tweeted, in response to an unverified claim about a Nazi flag being raised in a Palestinian town, that he believed Palestinians were not a real people with legitimate land claims and that they hated all Christians, Jews, and Americans.

To This :

In late September 2021 Mandel tweeted, in response to a a Nazi flag being raised in a Palestinian town, that he believed Palestinians were not a real people with legitimate land claims and that they hated all Christians, Jews, and Americans.

He is a source : there are tens more online, this is not an "unverified claim", this is fact tat happens very often and this particular instance has multiple articles and video evidence proving it happened. https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/nazi-flag-taken-down-by-idf-soldiers-in-hebron-680311 67.80.30.60 (talk) 02:19, 17 November 2021 (UTC) 67.80.30.60 (talk) 02:19, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

 Partly done: I just removed it entirely, as it was sourced to a tweet and contained WP:SYNTH. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:02, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 17 November 2021 (2)

change In late September 2021 Mandel tweeted, in response to an unverified claim about a Nazi flag being raised in a Palestinian town, that he believed Palestinians were not a real people with legitimate land claims and that they hated all Christians, Jews, and Americans.[97] to change In late September 2021 Mandel tweeted, in response to a Nazi flag being raised in a Palestinian town, that he believed Palestinians were not a real people with legitimate land claims and that they hated all Christians, Jews, and Americans.[97]

sources https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/nazi-flag-taken-down-by-idf-soldiers-in-hebron-680311 https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-fly-nazi-flag-near-hebron-idf-soldiers-shoot-it-down/ https://themedialine.org/mideast-daily-news/palestinians-raise-nazi-flag-with-swastika-near-hebron-soldiers-shoot-it-down/ https://jewishjournal.com/news/united-states/340892/palestinians-fly-nazi-flag-in-west-bank-village/ 67.80.30.60 (talk) 02:26, 17 November 2021 (UTC) 67.80.30.60 (talk) 02:26, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Far right

The far right is associated with neo nazis, neo fascists, racial supremacists, and extremism. Mandel shouldn't be labeled as such just for being a conservative/Republican. 2600:1700:C760:1C50:60B9:B601:71B8:F33E (talk) 22:11, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

It is sourced. The way to get it changed is to demonstrate that the majority of high quality sources don't refer to him as far right. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:38, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

That’s the dumbest reply I’ve seen. Ok I’ll go to all the politicians I believe is Far left and cite articles from conservative leaning organizations. Then we can battle back and forth. Remove it. It’s opinion. 24.140.48.8 (talk) 06:07, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

Actually, the opposite is true. If you place such a label on someone it should be well documented and well-sourced. It is not, and the above comment is simply trying to deflect. The original comment cannot even properly explain what proper right and left terminology is in America. The Nazi ideology is their own version of fascism they coined national socialism. To discuss a subject such as this one really needs to understand what Nazism is, what Nazi fascism is, and see if it applies to anything. Being uneducated on the subject is no excuse to go around labeling people you disagree with a nazi fascist. It is plain wrong and incredibly offensive to call a Jewish person with holocaust survivor family members such things snd it should be completely called out for what it is bigotted comments.

The first article that "sources" this claim is an article that highlights how Josh Mandel was victim of antisemitism during a campaign. This is such an irony. There's other articles, like this Wall Street Journal one, that describes him as part of the growing diversity in the Republican party. Who to believe? Why just using the articles that use "far-right" to qualify him? This is ridiculous. Ben Shapiro is qualified as "far-right" by this Guardian article, then we will change his article as well? --Deansfa (talk) 16:25, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

First of all, his religion is an immaterial matter to his political position. Secondly, the article you've linked is from ten years ago while all the other ones are within half a year of now. Finally, discuss any concerns you have about the Ben Shapiro page on the talk page for Ben Shapiro's articles because that's not relevant here. Bottom line, there are multiple reliable sources that refer to Mandel as far-right and as the statement is properly sourced, there's no reason to change it. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 00:29, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 November 2021

Can we remove "Far right" politician for Josh Mandel (in the intro). This is as subjective as those that call Sen. Bernie Sanders "Far Left" 50.5.190.111 (talk) 07:05, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

No. See above. --Pokelova (talk) 07:28, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 December 2021

Not sure how he is "far-right"? There is no factual basis to this. 129.130.19.24 (talk) 00:29, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: See above, and read the sources attached to the statement. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:32, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 February 2022

Delete the phrase “Jewish financier” from the following paragraph:

In October 2021, posting on a far-right conservative website, Mandel claimed that Jewish financier George Soros and the Deep State were responsible for the Covid-19 pandemic, the Black Lives Matter, Antifa and pro-Trumpist assault on Capitol Hill demonstrations and riots. 69.140.103.146 (talk) 18:55, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

 Question: Why? He is of Jewish descent and financier is certainly fitting. Cannolis (talk) 19:08, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

I mean, Mandel is of Jewish descent himself (unclear if hes practicing?) so having a paragraph calling George Soros a "Jewish financier" is a bit odd. Kind of implies that Mandel is an antisemite? Doesn't matter too much though. But I can understand the suggestion. 24.44.73.34 (talk) 23:04, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

When the neutrality of word choice is at issue, it's best to use the phrase in the cited source, which in this case is"Jewish philanthropist". Can we use that?
Conspiracy theories about George Soros typically invoke the International Jewish conspiracy theory, which is why the cited source makes note of Soros' ethnoreligious background. Ibadibam (talk) 05:54, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Without knowing anything about the specific people mentioned here, I don't see an issue with the neutrality of stating someone's ethnic group. If it had been another ethnoreligious group, would the sentence be fine? Bsoyka (talk · contribs) 16:10, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

 Note: This appears to have evolved into an ongoing content discussion and thus has extended outside the scope of the template, therefore, I've procedurally set it to answered. For abundant clarity, this is not in any way a closure of this discussion or determination of a consensus. Cheers! —Sirdog (talk) 06:26, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 February 2022

"joshua Aaron Mandel (born September 27, 1977) is an American far-right"

He is not far right. I grew up as did my siblings with this man and just because the left went far left, and he refuses to stand with Marxist BLM, that doesn't make him far right. That label is misleading and should just say he's on the right. Stop with the slandering because it's very dishonest. 2600:1700:6030:F1D0:900A:A723:4623:617B (talk) 21:16, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: We listen to what the sources say, not some anonymous person who claims to know him. --Pokelova (talk) 23:39, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 April 2022

Get rid of "far right" this is supposed to be an unbiased website and Josh Mandel isn't far right just because one biased news source says he is 2600:1009:B002:94F1:1DF1:E330:68EF:3A9D (talk) 11:39, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. See frequent discussion above and in archives, and note that there are several sources. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:53, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

I see a half dozen complaints about this highly charged opinionated/wrong/slanderous description. The sources are biased and weak. How exactly do you propose achieving a consensus? Gjxj (talk) 15:58, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Consensus is achieved through a discussion, with logical arguments preferably based in Wikipedia guidelines. Everyone has biases. A source being biased does not preclude its use on Wikipedia, as long as it is independent and a reliable source with a reputation of fact checking and editorial control. If you wish to challenge the reliability of a source, please go to the reliable sources noticeboard, but you may want to consider if a source you want to bring up has been before. If you just want to read what you want to hear that fits your worldview, this isn't the place for you. If you want to collaborate and achieve a consensus, please do. 331dot (talk) 17:13, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

If there is a particular source that is not accurately summarized, please describe the specific errors. 331dot (talk) 17:15, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 May 2022

Change "Far-Right" to remove "far-right". Far right is not a political position you have proven with your citations, it is conjecture and opinion and often used in a negative context. Your citation did nothing to provide actual facts to validate the claim of "far-right".

And you wonder why nobody but liberal ideologs will donate to wiki. 71.229.231.71 (talk) 18:37, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

•  Not done The term "far right" is well sourced; I've examined the sources and they use the term. If you disagree with the use of that term, you will need to address that with the sources first, or you may offer sources that describe Mr. Mandel differently. If you are interested in collaborating with others regardless of their political views, please offer sources. If you are just passing through to insult those that disagree with you, please go somewhere else that will tell you what you want to hear. You are, of course, free to donate or decline to donate to the Wikimedia Foundation based on whatever criteria you see fit. 331dot (talk) 19:00, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 November 2022

Hello I was researching politicians following a discussion with a friend and reviewed the Wiki page for Josh Mandel. The biography quickly labels Josh Mandel as being "far right". I never voted for the guy or thought highly of his campaigns but I cannot say I ever considered him "far right". Simply put, I think that is bullcrap and this editorial/opinion comment should be changed to DELETE "far right". It just reads like a smear as currently posted. Thank you, ML 2603:6011:2800:8E02:94E0:7535:4A2C:D36C (talk) 19:45, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: Wikipedia goes off of what reliable sources say, and there are multiple such sources cited there. Also, how is far-right a "smear"? Cannolis (talk) 20:21, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 December 2022

At the succession boxes at the bottom of the page, please add the following to the political party succession section, above the senate nominee box:

2601:249:9301:D570:E869:1EDF:22EE:5836 (talk) 20:21, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Lemonaka (talk) 18:03, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

Here's a version with sources:

2601:249:9301:D570:94C8:FDEC:32D0:CDE4 (talk) 22:53, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

 Done Personally I don't think sources for these succesions are even needed since you're not gonna challenge election info but since the sources are here already hey let's add them Aaron Liu (talk) 20:59, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

References